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Do you think that it's stupid/selfish that most people have political beliefs? Watch

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    (Original post by nohomo)
    But couldn't it take a length study of economics/politics to actually come to a conclusion on which policies would actually help you?

    e.g. on the surface, a party paying a bus company to give everyone a bus pass so they can expand the radius of their job search might seem good, but perhaps the taxes this would cost would encourage employers to hire fewer people or any other number of things. This is a silly example perhaps, because I haven't studied economics or politics (as I said), but it just doesn't seem as simple as "vote for the policies you like the sound of on the surface and the promises a party makes."
    Well just vote for the main policies you like, its not hard to do ten minutes reading on the subject. With the internet it is so so easy to clarify everything.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Well just vote for the main policies you like, its not hard to do ten minutes reading on the subject. With the internet it is so so easy to clarify everything.
    Fair enough

    I don't mean to be difficult...

    I suppose I'd vote green party if I thought they'd get in, but they probably wouldn't, so I'd vote labour based on their policies and how they sound for the short term. But as I said, I simply don't understand the consequences of voting labour
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    (Original post by Munrot07)
    What if I don't agree with any of them? I don't want a single one of them in so I would be voting for a party I don't believe in and don't want.

    (Btw I'm not actually of voting age yet, I'm 17 so have never had a chance to vote and I definitely will vote, I do agree it is a waste not to, I'm just suggesting this view )
    If you can't pick any that are worse out the current parties then you are a total idiot.

    Its not about voting for who you want, its about keeping out who you hate.
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    (Original post by nohomo)
    Fair enough

    I don't mean to be difficult...

    I suppose I'd vote green party if I thought they'd get in, but they probably wouldn't, so I'd vote labour based on their policies and how they sound for the short term. But as I said, I simply don't understand the consequences of voting labour
    Read up on it! Go to a local labour meeting, and a conservative one, and a lib dem one, and even a green one, and see who appeals to you more!
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    No it's simply their right to. I have an opinion on everything. I am a Politics student, but even for those who aren't should hold opinions, that's what makes democracy. Not enough young people know about Politics, and they should.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    I think its more selfish when people don't vote.
    I don't believe in the neo-liberal capitalist 'democracy' that dominates western politics and believe that voting is a tacit acceptance of it and of he deeply oppressive nature rampant within it.


    Even if I did want to vote within the current paradigm, voting for someone because they are the 'least worst' is clearly a terrible idea and the complete antithesis of what democracy should entail.
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    (Original post by nohomo)
    Fair enough

    I don't mean to be difficult...

    I suppose I'd vote green party if I thought they'd get in, but they probably wouldn't, so I'd vote labour based on their policies and how they sound for the short term. But as I said, I simply don't understand the consequences of voting labour
    A person's individual vote is of no consequence whatever. Only concerted efforts produce real consequences so I am not sure why you're so concerned about it. Fair enough if you want to be informed but why think your individual vote affects the outcome of elections? (or the political landscape in any way whatever)
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    (Original post by redferry)
    I think its more selfish when people don't vote.
    why?

    If for example I had no idea what i was voting for would you encourage me to go along and vote? is it not more selfish to encourage people to essentially pick at random thus cancelling out someones informed vote.
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    (Original post by Cornelius)
    A person's individual vote is of no consequence whatever. Only concerted efforts produce real consequences so I am not sure why you're so concerned about it. Fair enough if you want to be informed but why think your individual vote affects the outcome of elections? (or the political landscape in any way whatever)
    This is one of the reasons why I think it's stupid to have political beliefs: your vote makes little difference really, and most people won't go far enough beyond voting to make a difference.

    But when a large number of uninformed people are voting, it does make a difference, and is potentially dangerous.

    I want to be informed in all areas of life, including economics and politics (though the main area I'd like to be informed is mathematics, but I'm not doing great at learning that, I'm on a degree in maths though).
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    (Original post by redferry)
    I think its more selfish when people don't vote.
    I can understand why you say this. I mean, it's scary to think neo-Nazis could get power if enough people choose not to vote. And it seems as though people don't care about what happens in their area, they're apathetic and selfish etc. But I think these are short-minded ideas (apart from the neo-Nazi thing lol, along with things like the holocaust, they represent the very darkest parts of human nature).

    One of the reasons why I haven't voted is because I think all the parties come across as dishonest and manipulative. I mean, if you look at things from their point of view, that's how you win votes. But that to me just highlights how painfully rubbish our system is. Not that I think humans have come up with anything better than democracy. I just think it fails, big time.

    Another reason is that I think lots of parties make decent arguments, and so sometimes I find it difficult to decide which factors hold more importance. Who am I voting for? Do I vote for me, and others with similar incomes? Do I vote to help the poorest in society? Do I vote for the wealthiest?
    The fact that it is so often a selfish decision, and that you're making subjective, unquantifiable value judgements to make decisions makes me think, 'well I don't know what the right answer is, so why should I vote? I'd probably change my mind tomorrow'. And I listen to people like you, and I think, 'well you don't know what the right answers are either, so how dare you call me selfish when I choose not to vote to avoid making the wrong decision...?'

    I know a decent level of economics and politics, it's not like I'm 'underqualified' to vote (not that I think there's any such thing), it doesn't make me a bad or selfish person for not voting. The fact is, there is no candidate that I think is worth a vote. At the end of the day, if I were to vote, it would be a question of 'who do I dislike the least?', which I think is a shame, and I think a lot of people think that way when they go into a polling station. That saddens me, because that means parties are not representing people. Then it's no surprise people don't turn up to vote!

    And most people are too busy with their own pursuits in life to try and enter politics and run their own party or send letters to politicians. So they leave them to do what they do, and the problem remains!
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    (Original post by nohomo)
    This is one of the reasons why I think it's stupid to have political beliefs: your vote makes little difference really, and most people won't go far enough beyond voting to make a difference.

    But when a large number of uninformed people are voting, it does make a difference, and is potentially dangerous.

    I want to be informed in all areas of life, including economics and politics (though the main area I'd like to be informed is mathematics, but I'm not doing great at learning that, I'm on a degree in maths though).
    Yes but in your case, it's irrelevant. If more people were informed about politics&economics, they'd make better choices and thus overall policy would be affected positively. But how does this relate to your voting patterns?

    And as I said, it's fair enough if you want to be informed but this won't materialise into anything until you can somehow start a mass movement or become the next Rush Limbaugh or something (although I sincerely hope you won't).
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    (Original post by Cornelius)
    Yes but in your case, it's irrelevant. If more people were informed about politics&economics, they'd make better choices and thus overall policy would be affected positively. But how does this relate to your voting patterns?

    And as I said, it's fair enough if you want to be informed but this won't materialise into anything until you can somehow start a mass movement or become the next Rush Limbaugh or something (although I sincerely hope you won't).
    It doesn't bro, but I can still marvel at the stupidity/selfishness of voting patterns.

    I agree, I'd like to be informed but I know it doesn't matter to anyone else, unless I could present the arguments I picked up in an easy form and convince people that my value judgement on how society should be was one to agree with...and I'm not hardworking/clever enough to do that.
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    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    I don't believe in the neo-liberal capitalist 'democracy' that dominates western politics and believe that voting is a tacit acceptance of it and of he deeply oppressive nature rampant within it.


    Even if I did want to vote within the current paradigm, voting for someone because they are the 'least worst' is clearly a terrible idea and the complete antithesis of what democracy should entail.
    exactly what I've just said, this is one of my biggest frustrations with the system atm
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    (Original post by nohomo)
    It doesn't bro, but I can still marvel at the stupidity/selfishness of voting patterns.

    I agree, I'd like to be informed but I know it doesn't matter to anyone else, unless I could present the arguments I picked up in an easy form and convince people that my value judgement on how society should be was one to agree with...and I'm not hardworking/clever enough to do that.
    I do not oppose the idea of being informed although it is very time consuming to really be informed on policy and current affairs (so unless it's a hobby of yours, I'd think your time is better spent elsewhere*).

    *This is considered heresy or some kind of a "betrayal" of democracy but there are many ways to be a "virtuous" citizen and only one of them involves informed voting.

    E.g. being a good, helpful doctor or a good, helpful priest (IMO!) contributes to the functioning of society far more effectively than spending your life figuring out which kind of policy is best when you have virtually no chance of influencing actual policy formation.

    THAT said, what I am saying now makes for terrible propaganda. The government must encourage informed voting and responsible decision making because it is, if only in theory, capable of swaying the minds of large swaths of the population. As a matter of fact, I think even the government will have very little influence but that's an idiosyncrasy of mine (maybe I'm too cynical), I don't think it is necessarily true that won't. But it at least has a chance, isolated individuals have no chance.
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    (Original post by blue n white army)
    why?

    If for example I had no idea what i was voting for would you encourage me to go along and vote? is it not more selfish to encourage people to essentially pick at random thus cancelling out someones informed vote.
    I'd encourage you to take a quick five minute test online then go and vote.
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    (Original post by Pride)
    I can understand why you say this. I mean, it's scary to think neo-Nazis could get power if enough people choose not to vote. And it seems as though people don't care about what happens in their area, they're apathetic and selfish etc. But I think these are short-minded ideas (apart from the neo-Nazi thing lol, along with things like the holocaust, they represent the very darkest parts of human nature).

    One of the reasons why I haven't voted is because I think all the parties come across as dishonest and manipulative. I mean, if you look at things from their point of view, that's how you win votes. But that to me just highlights how painfully rubbish our system is. Not that I think humans have come up with anything better than democracy. I just think it fails, big time.

    Another reason is that I think lots of parties make decent arguments, and so sometimes I find it difficult to decide which factors hold more importance. Who am I voting for? Do I vote for me, and others with similar incomes? Do I vote to help the poorest in society? Do I vote for the wealthiest?
    The fact that it is so often a selfish decision, and that you're making subjective, unquantifiable value judgements to make decisions makes me think, 'well I don't know what the right answer is, so why should I vote? I'd probably change my mind tomorrow'. And I listen to people like you, and I think, 'well you don't know what the right answers are either, so how dare you call me selfish when I choose not to vote to avoid making the wrong decision...?'

    I know a decent level of economics and politics, it's not like I'm 'underqualified' to vote (not that I think there's any such thing), it doesn't make me a bad or selfish person for not voting. The fact is, there is no candidate that I think is worth a vote. At the end of the day, if I were to vote, it would be a question of 'who do I dislike the least?', which I think is a shame, and I think a lot of people think that way when they go into a polling station. That saddens me, because that means parties are not representing people. Then it's no surprise people don't turn up to vote!

    And most people are too busy with their own pursuits in life to try and enter politics and run their own party or send letters to politicians. So they leave them to do what they do, and the problem remains!
    So you are essentially happy giving power to UKIP instead of voting? Do you not think that is selfish?

    You're happy to let people privatise the NHS by not voting?

    You're happy to let TTIP come in by not voting?

    You're happy to allow coal plants to continue by not voting?

    Of course you might like all these things, in which case think about what you don't like about labour. There must be things you really don't want. That is what you vote against.

    Do I think the labour party is amazing and perfect? No. Do I think they will protect the NHS and build more houses? Yes. Are they the only party talking about TTIP (bar the greens but I can't take them seriously because of their awful green policies myself)? Yes.

    And that is why I vote and campaign for labour. All there is to it.
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    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    I don't believe in the neo-liberal capitalist 'democracy' that dominates western politics and believe that voting is a tacit acceptance of it and of he deeply oppressive nature rampant within it.


    Even if I did want to vote within the current paradigm, voting for someone because they are the 'least worst' is clearly a terrible idea and the complete antithesis of what democracy should entail.
    It saddens me to see how little people in this country care aboutnthe NHS, one of the best healthcare services in the world.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    So you are essentially happy giving power to UKIP instead of voting? Do you not think that is selfish?

    You're happy to let people privatise the NHS by not voting?

    You're happy to let TTIP come in by not voting?

    You're happy to allow coal plants to continue by not voting?

    Of course you might like all these things, in which case think about what you don't like about labour. There must be things you really don't want. That is what you vote against.

    Do I think the labour party is amazing and perfect? No. Do I think they will protect the NHS and build more houses? Yes. Are they the only party talking about TTIP (bar the greens but I can't take them seriously because of their awful green policies myself)? Yes.

    And that is why I vote and campaign for labour. All there is to it.
    Labour at the moment are not a party I could vote for and that isn't easy for me to say. Yes it is all well and good saying 'same old rotten Tories' but nothing constructive has come from Miliband's mouth with only the unhinged Balls showing some character. They do not deserve to win the next election as things stand.


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    (Original post by Midlander)
    Labour at the moment are not a party I could vote for and that isn't easy for me to say. Yes it is all well and good saying 'same old rotten Tories' but nothing constructive has come from Miliband's mouth with only the unhinged Balls showing some character. They do not deserve to win the next election as things stand.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    You actually think they're worse than a Tory-UKIP coalition?

    If so, at least vote green or lib dem.
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    why vote when its all about the face
 
 
 
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