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Isn't Maggie Thatcher the greatest feminist symbol ever? watch

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    (Original post by StevieA)
    What exactly was misogynistic in my post? I don't agree with Thatcher on many things but she was great at politics and she got to be PM on her own merits.
    That's not entirely true, according to the BBC documentary about her career broadcast last year, she got into Heath's cabinet because they needed a woman. This was in the wake of Barbara Castle, the Dagenham sewing machinists and the Equal Pay Act. Thatcher was of course eminently capable, and had much more integrity than the rest of the old fuddy-duddies, but as such she was seen as too disruptive and shrill for the cosy boys'-club atmosphere and nobody wanted her. She was lucky that political forces meant Heath had to put her in.
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    (Original post by the_lost_boy)
    Calling men useless isn't real feminism. Thatcher wasn't male or female... Thatcher was a malignant, demonic entity. Not the sexy kind of demonic either.
    why do you say that?
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    (Original post by zippity.doodah)
    why do you say that?
    Because she aided the Khmer Rouge.
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    (Original post by the_lost_boy)
    Because she aided the Khmer Rouge.

    but she was an anti-communist; why would she have done that?
    Spoiler:
    Show
    but if it's true I'm sure other prime ministers have done worse; churchill supported stalin, major's government gave saddam arms, etc
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    (Original post by the_lost_boy)
    In that case, why don't you Men's Rights activists all revere Hitler? He was a loser who climbed to the top in spite of the fact that he wasn't rich or alpha. I bet he was even an incel for a time. He never acted like a victim.

    Feminists don't care for Maggie because most feminists are of the liberal persuasion. Even you must know that. Liberals aren't fond of people who protect child abusers. Beyond that, she didn't keep her contempt for feminism a secret.

    Also, she screwed over the Irish so anyone who is Irish or has Irish ancestry hates her. Also, anyone who was the victim of the unemployment crisis she caused probably isn't to fond of her. Anyone who is working class or has compassion for the working class would hate her. Oh, and she helped to contribute to and uphold apartheid in South Africa. Anyone Cambodian also isn't a fan of her, as she supported the Khmer Rouge. etc etc etc

    Basically... she was Satan in a dress.
    Hitler totally was a serial victim. Mein Kampf is a masterpiece of conspiracy theory and victimhood as a coping mechanism. He firmly believed the Jews and the Bolsheviks were conspiring to impoverish Germany and as such he was a great asset to the nascent Nazi party.

    Thatcher may have been Satan in a dress (as all the rest of them have been Satan in suits) but none of the points you raise have anything to do with feminism, so they are irrelevant. But yes, Thatcher probably did hate feminism because they were liberals. Particularly, Thatcher believed in the family as the basic unit of society, and feminism has long fought against that, because of the patriarchal Christian concept of the man as head of the household and the broader suggestion that in the family model of society women have to rely on men (as well as vice versa, but feminists didn't worry about that).
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Hitler totally was a serial victim. Mein Kampf is a masterpiece of conspiracy theory and victimhood as a coping mechanism. He firmly believed the Jews and the Bolsheviks were conspiring to impoverish Germany and as such he was a great asset to the nascent Nazi party.

    Thatcher may have been Satan in a dress (as all the rest of them have been Satan in suits) but none of the points you raise have anything to do with feminism, so they are irrelevant. But yes, Thatcher probably did hate feminism because they were liberals. Particularly, Thatcher believed in the family as the basic unit of society, and feminism has long fought against that, because of the patriarchal Christian concept of the man as head of the household and the broader suggestion that in the family model of society women have to rely on men (as well as vice versa, but feminists didn't worry about that).
    I was being facetious for half of that. Feminism is not about creating a matriarchal society: it's about destroying the patriarchy and creating a society in which men and women are equal. Feminists (normal people who believe that female genital mutilation is bad and girls should be allowed to go to school) get lumped together with radical feminists (mostly middle class, white, man-hating victims who paint their houses with menstrual blood).

    As far as family goes, sane feminists believe that women should have a choice about when they start a family and also that same sex couples should be allowed to have families (radical feminists either advocate human extinction, cloning of existing females, or reproduction via menstrual blood magic-- they also believe that gay men are evil because PENISES ARE EVIL and transgender women shouldn't be allowed to marry women or call themselves women or exist).

    Sorry if that is incoherent, I only got two hours of sleep and I've been working all day every day this week.
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    (Original post by the_lost_boy)
    I was being facetious for half of that. Feminism is not about creating a matriarchal society: it's about destroying the patriarchy and creating a society in which men and women are equal. Feminists (normal people who believe that female genital mutilation is bad and girls should be allowed to go to school) get lumped together with radical feminists (mostly middle class, white, man-hating victims who paint their houses with menstrual blood).

    As far as family goes, sane feminists believe that women should have a choice about when they start a family and also that same sex couples should be allowed to have families (radical feminists either advocate human extinction, cloning of existing females, or reproduction via menstrual blood magic-- they also believe that gay men are evil because PENISES ARE EVIL and transgender women shouldn't be allowed to marry women or call themselves women or exist).

    Sorry if that is incoherent, I only got two hours of sleep and I've been working all day every day this week.
    I guess I am a sane feminist
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    (Original post by the_lost_boy)
    I was being facetious for half of that. Feminism is not about creating a matriarchal society: it's about destroying the patriarchy and creating a society in which men and women are equal. Feminists (normal people who believe that female genital mutilation is bad and girls should be allowed to go to school) get lumped together with radical feminists (mostly middle class, white, man-hating victims who paint their houses with menstrual blood).

    As far as family goes, sane feminists believe that women should have a choice about when they start a family and also that same sex couples should be allowed to have families (radical feminists either advocate human extinction, cloning of existing females, or reproduction via menstrual blood magic-- they also believe that gay men are evil because PENISES ARE EVIL and transgender women shouldn't be allowed to marry women or call themselves women or exist).

    Sorry if that is incoherent, I only got two hours of sleep and I've been working all day every day this week.
    I agree completely but it's not really relevant to the debate at all, I expect Thatcher didn't identify with feminism mainly because it sought to define women either on their own terms or as a sisterhood rather than within the family, and she was all about families. No such thing as society etc. And this is very much part of mainstream as well as radical feminist thought, particularly in the heady days of the 1970s.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    She believed in individual success, not group success, hence her disdain for feminism, which seeks to improve the status of women as a group, rather than people as individuals.
    Nope. Types of feminism can fit very easily within the neocon framework.

    although I doubt Thatcher like feminism at all.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Nope. Types of feminism can fit very easily within the neocon framework.

    although I doubt Thatcher like feminism at all.
    Don't you mean the libertarian framework?

    Anyway I agree that there are different types of feminism; I was talking about the mainstream notion of a struggle of women against the prevailing society, rather than a struggle for the individual liberty of all human beings.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Don't you mean the libertarian framework?

    Anyway I agree that there are different types of feminism; I was talking about the mainstream notion of a struggle of women against the prevailing society, rather than a struggle for the individual liberty of all human beings.
    Do you believe that ever existed?
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Do you believe that ever existed?
    It existed in the minds of some people who called themselves feminist. Other people may also have called themselves feminist but been more libertarian and individualistic.

    Edit: this whole argument was a bit of a misunderstanding; I never wished to say that there was no oppression of women, I was just talking about the method of fixing it.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    It existed in the minds of some people who called themselves feminist. Other people may also have called themselves feminist but been more libertarian and individualistic.
    So you think women have never faced additional challenges placed on them by society for being born female?

    I think you can say it objectively existed when women couldn't vote :rolleyes: it wasn't only in the mind of these feminists.
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    It's ironic how this was posted in the 'Society' section
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    (Original post by the_lost_boy)
    Also, she screwed over the Irish so anyone who is Irish or has Irish ancestry hates her.
    She screwed them over by... allowing 10 of them to kill themselves and refused to acknowledge the troubles as a war?

    Makes perfect sense.


    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Particularly, Thatcher believed in the family as the basic unit of society, and feminism has long fought against that, because of the patriarchal Christian concept of the man as head of the household and the broader suggestion that in the family model of society women have to rely on men (as well as vice versa, but feminists didn't worry about that).
    I wouldn't exactly call it Christian, more like Darwinian.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    So you think women have never faced additional challenges placed on them by society for being born female?

    I think you can say it objectively existed when women couldn't vote :rolleyes: it wasn't only in the mind of these feminists.
    Absolutely not - I agree that as a default in human societies, women are unfree. I just think that the solution to this problem is not some kind of pro-woman movement, but a pro-human movement. In order to get rid of discrimination, treat people as individuals. I don't think this is in conflict with all forms of feminism, but it is with some.
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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    She screwed them over by... allowing 10 of them to kill themselves and refused to acknowledge the troubles as a war?

    Makes perfect sense.




    I wouldn't exactly call it Christian, more like Darwinian.
    Insofar as it was enshrined in law and formed part of people's concept of "how things ought to be", I think we can say it was Christian as that is what our cultural norms were based on until very recently. We can argue separately about whether the man as head of the household is a Darwinian inevitability.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Absolutely not - I agree that as a default in human societies, women are unfree. I just think that the solution to this problem is not some kind of pro-woman movement, but a pro-human movement. In order to get rid of discrimination, treat people as individuals. I don't think this is in conflict with all forms of feminism, but it is with some.
    What is the difference? Are you also against the pro black rights movements on the grounds they were not "pro human movements"?

    What happens if these individuals are sexist racists bigots? Should their liberty to be bigots be protected?
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    What is the difference? Are you also against the pro black rights movements on the grounds they were not "pro human movements"?

    What happens if these individuals are sexist racists bigots? Should their liberty to be bigots be protected?
    I am against things like affirmative action, but I am massively pro-Martin Luther King, because he was interested in forging a society where people are treated equally to each other, unlike, say, Malcom X, who was a racist who bore a grudge against all white people (like some feminists bear a grudge against all men).
 
 
 
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