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Can anyone give any positives for dismantling the NHS? Watch

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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    A system which was funded by the government but run by numerous private companies would be more efficient and allow for a greater degree of patient choice, allowing better run hospitals to buy out poorer ones and thus facilitating improvements while avoiding turning the whole thing into quite the giant money sink it currently is.
    So we both have to pay tax and pay for the health care. I don't want to live in America thanks.
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    (Original post by Guy Secretan)
    -people take advantage of the NHS because it is free
    - it is aa bloated public sector organisation which squanders millions
    - health tourists would no longer be able to come here to get free health
    And you think private companies are going to reinvest every penny given to them?
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    (Original post by TheAnusFiles)
    Yes, but where do you think that money is going to come from? Thin air?
    Well, someone on £26,500 gross wage pays £3300 income tax and £3180 national insurance. As the NHS makes up ~18% of all government spending, lets say we give that person an 18% tax cut (for the purposes of this, I'm ignoring all the many other taxes they'd be paying). They've now got £1178 to spend. Well BUPA charge £80.23 a month at their highest rate, including VAT at 20%, for a person to get health insurance. So they'd be left with £215 spare.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Well, someone on £26,500 gross wage pays £3300 income tax and £3180 national insurance. As the NHS makes up ~18% of all government spending, lets say we give that person an 18% tax cut (for the purposes of this, I'm ignoring all the many other taxes they'd be paying). They've now got £1178 to spend. Well BUPA charge £80.23 a month at their highest rate, including VAT at 20%, for a person to get health insurance. So they'd be left with £215 spare.
    Firstly you are being VERY naive if you think there would be any tax cut.

    But more importantly, if we got rid of the NHS, private healthcare costs would increase hugely in this country. As I said earlier, private healthcare is propped up by the NHS currently so removing the NHS will add a large amount of expenditure that will be required, and so costs to the patient will have to significantly increase.

    And what about those who aren't in work? Maybe they have just been made redundant and are looking, or have just come out of uni and are looking, or maybe they can't work because of a serious health issue (that btw, probably wouldn't be covered by insurance anyway).
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    So we both have to pay tax and pay for the health care. I don't want to live in America thanks.
    Not what I said. Healthcare would still be free at point of use, with the government paying out a set amount to whoever provided each item of care. The actual provision would be done by the private hospital you chose. That way, the competition is on quality of care and efficiency.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    Firstly you are being VERY naive if you think there would be any tax cut.

    But more importantly, if we got rid of the NHS, private healthcare costs would increase hugely in this country. As I said earlier, private healthcare is propped up by the NHS currently so removing the NHS will add a large amount of expenditure that will be required, and so costs to the patient will have to significantly increase.

    And what about those who aren't in work? Maybe they have just been made redundant and are looking, or have just come out of uni and are looking, or maybe they can't work because of a serious health issue (that btw, probably wouldn't be covered by insurance anyway).
    Hmm. How do those not in work currently get essential services? That'd just be another benefit the government would provide.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Well, someone on £26,500 gross wage pays £3300 income tax and £3180 national insurance. As the NHS makes up ~18% of all government spending, lets say we give that person an 18% tax cut (for the purposes of this, I'm ignoring all the many other taxes they'd be paying). They've now got £1178 to spend. Well BUPA charge £80.23 a month at their highest rate, including VAT at 20%, for a person to get health insurance. So they'd be left with £215 spare.
    £80 a month? In the US health insurance costs the average family $16000 a year. As a previous poster said, private health care works on the basis usually that if something goes wrong, then the NHS will fix it.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Not what I said. Healthcare would still be free at point of use, with the government paying out a set amount to whoever provided each item of care. The actual provision would be done by the private hospital you chose. That way, the competition is on quality of care and efficiency.
    I just don't see why it needs to deviate away from how it already works. I also do believe that free markets magically fix everything on their own and that they should be applied to everything.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Not what I said. Healthcare would still be free at point of use, with the government paying out a set amount to whoever provided each item of care. The actual provision would be done by the private hospital you chose. That way, the competition is on quality of care and efficiency.
    You are naive. If everyone shopped at Tesco, Sainsburys would have to change their tune or go bust. However both of those are completely private companies.

    If anyone wanted to set up a private health care service completely off their own back they are free to do so.

    You are assuming the government is going to give each company a fair chance and then the best run will survive. In reality contracts will be given to friends of the cabinet and there will be very little choice. Badly run hospitals making huge amounts of money from professionals still trained with taxes will be all there is and there will be no alternative.
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    None, that temporary gain in tax is outweighed by all the sick people not coming into work and not contributing to gdp and more ill people means less productivity and a more divided society with the haves and have nots, which will eventually lead to a huge revolution and riot (long term).
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    (Original post by TheAnusFiles)
    You are naive. If everyone shopped at Tesco, Sainsburys would have to change their tune or go bust. However both of those are completely private companies.

    If anyone wanted to set up a private health care service completely off their own back they are free to do so.

    You are assuming the government is going to give each company a fair chance and then the best run will survive. In reality contracts will be given to friends of the cabinet and there will be very little choice. Badly run hospitals making huge amounts of money from professionals still trained with taxes will be all there is and there will be no alternative.
    Yeah, but if you were required by law to pay Tesco £80 a week whether you shopped there or not, Sainsbury's would probably go bust anyway.

    In the situation I propose, there would be no 'contracts' per se to give. Each patient chooses where they go, and that hospital is reimbursed by the government with a sum based on what services were provided. A heart transplant gets the same amount of money no matter where it is done.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Yeah, but if you were required by law to pay Tesco £80 a week whether you shopped there or not, Sainsbury's would probably go bust anyway.

    In the situation I propose, there would be no 'contracts' per se to give. Each patient chooses where they go, and that hospital is reimbursed by the government with a sum based on what services were provided. A heart transplant gets the same amount of money no matter where it is done.
    So where is the incentive for a private hospital to do a good job if they are just going to be paid the same? This is the same problem we have on the railways. First Great Western get paid the same amount if they put on a 5 carriage train as they would if they put on a 2 carriage train. So guess how many carriages is on the rush hour trains around here?
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Yeah, but if you were required by law to pay Tesco £80 a week whether you shopped there or not, Sainsbury's would probably go bust anyway.

    In the situation I propose, there would be no 'contracts' per se to give. Each patient chooses where they go, and that hospital is reimbursed by the government with a sum based on what services were provided. A heart transplant gets the same amount of money no matter where it is done.
    Ok, but that would require each health company to set up everything off their own backs. That is not going to happen. What will happen is that George Osbourne's niece's company will be given a 2 billion contract and any complaints about the dreadful service will be poo-pooed
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    There simply are no positives. We have the best healthcare in the world as it is now. Privatisation would ruin this country.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2.../17/nhs-health
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    Yeah right look at trains, expensive and still crap under privatisation, even if the government pay private companies to provide medical care whats the incentive to provide quality patient care? They still get paid the same!!!
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    (Original post by TheAnusFiles)
    Anyone?
    Here is the reality:

    1) More money for healthcare companies.
    2) More money/connections/kudos for MPs who went to great lengths to dismantle the system.
    3) A weak, desperate workforce whose health depends on your good faith - power.
    4) Research can concentrate on extending the lifespans of the super rich (i.e. you and your mates), less waste.
    5) It feels really really satisfying, probably sexually so, to put other human beings through such a tremendous deal of pain and uncertainty as removing free healthcare.
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    Hmmmm
    If you're one of this lot you'll be raking it in.:yay:
    http://socialinvestigations.blogspot...financial.html
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    So where is the incentive for a private hospital to do a good job if they are just going to be paid the same? This is the same problem we have on the railways. First Great Western get paid the same amount if they put on a 5 carriage train as they would if they put on a 2 carriage train. So guess how many carriages is on the rush hour trains around here?
    Well, the incentive where there is actual customer choice (eg. in a system where more than one company provides the same service) is retaining the customers. If your hospital is bad, it gets a bad reputation, patients go elsewhere, you don't get money, you go bust and get bought out.

    The solution to the train problem would be to make a different train company have each quarter hourly train in rush hour. You could either get on the 2 carriage one or wait 15 mins for a 5 carriage one. Which would you do?
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    (Original post by TheAnusFiles)
    Average wage in the UK is £26,500. Do you know how much operations cost?
    That is not how insurance works. You pay money to an insurance company to cover you in case you have medical expenses, and they pay for the operation when you need it. One person's claim will be balanced out by the thousands who don't claim each year, hence why pooling the risk makes it viable.

    Using the HMRC app the average person on £26500 a year pays £1000 a year from their income tax towards health. Once you add in all the other taxes they will have to pay in a year, that sum will easily double. You can get pretty ****ing good private health insurance for £2000 a year, and I'd rather do that than have this money taken away from me to be spent on a sub par service.
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    (Original post by rich2606)
    That is not how insurance works. You pay money to an insurance company to cover you in case you have medical expenses, and they pay for the operation when you need it. One person's claim will be balanced out by the thousands who don't claim each year, hence why pooling the risk makes it viable.

    Using the HMRC app the average person on £26500 a year pays £1000 a year from their income tax towards health. Once you add in all the other taxes they will have to pay in a year, that sum will easily double. You can get pretty ****ing good private health insurance for £2000 a year, and I'd rather do that than have this money taken away from me to be spent on a sub par service.
    The only reason why it is so cheap here is that we have the NHS to cover it. In the US it costs 5000 dollars a person and 16000 a family. A year.
 
 
 
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