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Why IB Students get such high offers Watch

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    (Original post by Pectorac)
    How does it? At university, you do not have to spend hours of your time volunteering if you don't want to, just to pass. You don't have to study subjects you don't like (yes there will probably be little bits of the degree you don't like, but you're not forced to learn about irrelevant subjects), and referencing is taught from the beginning; you don't need TOK and EE to do well at university essays.

    The offer comparisons are not unfair; if you don't want a higher offer, don't take the IB. Surely before committing yourself to the two year programme (which is not the normal route), you'd so some research into what universities ask for and where you'd like to see yourself when you finish? You and the other IB students knew (or should have known) what you were letting yourselves in for when you started, in terms of what universities think of the IB and what the offers are like.
    Some kids probably don't get a choice though - their school may not offer A levels. Also, I had friends who were persuaded to do the IB because it was supposedly better recognised internationally (they were interested in applying to american unis) and the lack of AS equivalents meant that if they were to apply to e.g. Oxbridge they wouldn't have bad AS UMS letting them down. At their school, the brightest students were encouraged to do A levels (and sometimes to do 4/5 subjects) because of the benefits of good AS results, and everyone else recommended to do IB.
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    (Original post by Paralove)
    The extended essay prepares you for the longer dissertations you may do at university. The heavier workload helps with time management which is essential in life regardless. There are also a lot of opportunities offered through IB that aren't for those doing A-Levels, at least at my sixth form, hence making it more enticing. My friend said she loved it and is glad she did that rather than A-Levels, she just wished she had been at a different school to do it.

    A lot of people don't necessarily want to limit the subjects they take. I didn't do IB, if you had read my post correctly, and I'm glad I didn't. But I guarantee that the average IB student would do a lot better in A-Levels than your average A-Level student would in the IB.

    Also, as mentioned above, I agree that they get higher offers due to a lack of evidence of any academic ability or progress between GCSE and applying to university, but sometimes the greater difficulty does need a bit more consideration.
    You can get that preparation from a lot more things; A2 English literature coursework makes you write a long essay and makes you do independent research, with university-style referencing. A2 geography makes you write one long report in an exam, with independent research away from the syllabus, referencing needed, etc.

    IB is still limiting; it's not like you can take maths, physics, and chemistry at HL and English, French and history at SL and then decide you want to do a English, French or history degree, because you don't have the right subjects at HL and won't be considered anyway.
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    (Original post by ILovePancakes)
    This isn't true.

    At all.

    IB HLs go into more depth than A Level. Not only do we go into more depth in class, but we also have to read massively around our subjects. I mean, ffs, in English we study FIFTEEN texts word for word, consider contextually etc. In A-Level you do four I believe. In history I have to know pretty much everything that happened in the world during the 20th Century. Not modular things like A-Level. We do literature in French as well as speaking, listening and reading papers. I do SL geography and my teacher said that she thinks the IB course goes into more depth than A Level. I can't really talk for sciences, as I'm humanities.

    As well as this, we have to do CAS, TOK and the EE. Offers are basically "hai, pls get A*A*AAA and do 150 hours of extracurriculars and two extra essays thnx" (this is Cambridge - offer of 41 points with 776 at HL, but A*AA for same course).
    It is not 4 pieces of literature for A-level. There are over 20 poems to learn inside out, and 2 or 3 novels to know inside out as well, each year, so all again for A2 after AS. A 'text' is the poetry anthology, which contains masses of poetry you need to talk about.

    Wow, you do two extra essays. A-level students are always writing essays; A2 literature coursework forces people to do basically the same thing as EE, with the referencing, etc. CAS, TOK and EE do not help you for university; at university you do not need to spend hours volunteering at something you don't want to do and/or don't have time for. All referencing is taught from scratch anyway.

    Why do you think IB students get higher offers? Surely the likes of Oxbridge are smart enough to have the high IB requirements as opposed to A-levels. It's not like they hate the IB because it's not British so they'll be unfair. The subjects are not in as much depth than A-levels, so higher points are needed to compete with A-level students.
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    (Original post by cheeriosarenice)
    Because A levels have more depth.

    Every IB student whines about how tough & unfair their offers are compared to A levels, and complain that Universities "don't understand".

    I think they do understand perfectly by now, as it has been a well known qualification for over 10 years, and they have lots of experience comparing qualifications.

    So obviously, the reason that they ask for high offers is because the IB is easier, and doesn't contain a lot of the A level content.
    I did AS French as well as IB SL French and I can't tell you that IB French was significantly harder than AS. Having skimmed the A2 course too, it didn't seem like the challenge IB French was


    Unis are starting to regcogniE the difficulty of the IB. KCL changed it's standard offer to 35 points works 766 at HL for A*AA courses, 666 for AAA courses etc. The schools that do the IB are generally private schools that get extremely high IB averages so in order to reflect that the offers have to be exceptionally high, e.g 38+ for top unis
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    (Original post by Pectorac)
    It is not 4 pieces of literature for A-level. There are over 20 poems to learn inside out, and 2 or 3 novels to know inside out as well. A 'text' is the poetry anthology, which contains masses of poetry you need to talk about.

    Wow, you do two extra essays. A-level students are always writing essays; A2 literature coursework forces people to do basically the same thing as EE, with the referencing, etc. CAS, TOK and EE do not help you for university;
    Firstly, IB HL English is exactly the same and we had to learn 30 odd poems inside out,

    Secondly, the EE is a HUGE help to uni life. It's helped me so much in knowing how to reference properly, to convert my arguments properly and be more structured in my writing. It isn't the same as A2 coursework because you've had that prescribed for you. The EE topic is something we choose ourselves and research ourselves and aren't spponfed by a teacher
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    (Original post by Calllu-m)
    Firstly, IB HL English is exactly the same and we had to learn 30 odd poems inside out,

    Secondly, the EE is a HUGE help to uni life. It's helped me so much in knowing how to reference properly, to convert my arguments properly and be more structured in my writing. It isn't the same as A2 coursework because you've had that prescribed for you. The EE topic is something we choose ourselves and research ourselves and aren't spponfed by a teacher
    We can do an EPQ which is exactly the same as EE. Choose a topic, write 5000 words, reference, research, etc. If you couldn't have completed your university essays without EE, you obviously didn't pay much attention in the taught sessions of 'Let's make sure everyone on this course knows how to reference so we don't need to keep telling them they're doing it wrong over the next three years' at university.
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    (Original post by Pectorac)
    We can do an EPQ which is exactly the same as EE. Choose a topic, write 5000 words, reference, research, etc. If you couldn't have completed your university essays without EE, you obviously didn't pay much attention in the taught sessions of 'Let's make sure everyone on this course knows how to reference so we don't need to keep telling them they're doing it wrong over the next three years' at university.
    Oh come on it's not the same, you don't have to do an EPQ and hardly anyone does, the EE is a requirement and can contribute up to three points in the IB total score, whereas a C in the EPQ isn't as huge a deal next to A*A*A

    My uni didn't actually have said sessions and expected us to refer to a style guide, meaning most people lost marks in the first few essays for referencing.
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    (Original post by Calllu-m)
    Oh come on it's not the same, you don't have to do an EPQ and hardly anyone does, the EE is a requirement and can contribute up to three points in the IB total score, whereas a C in the EPQ isn't as huge a deal next to A*A*A

    My uni didn't actually have said sessions and expected us to refer to a style guide, meaning most people lost marks in the first few essays for referencing.
    Again, another reason the IB offers are higher is because you can get 3 bonus points for doing nothing except for write something any intelligent A-level student can do. They're not points you get for the required subjects and contribute nothing to your understanding of what you're studying at HL.

    The EPQ is rising in popularity and you can just do it anyway if your school doesn't offer it. You get a senior teacher who wouldn't mind marking it and do it off your own back. If people are losing marks for referencing at university then they're not trying hard enough; EE would have helped them, but at university level they should be able to sit down for a couple of hours and learn how to do things properly. If they can't bother to do that, should they really be on their course?
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    (Original post by Pectorac)
    It is not 4 pieces of literature for A-level. There are over 20 poems to learn inside out, and 2 or 3 novels to know inside out as well, each year, so all again for A2 after AS. A 'text' is the poetry anthology, which contains masses of poetry you need to talk about.

    Wow, you do two extra essays. A-level students are always writing essays; A2 literature coursework forces people to do basically the same thing as EE, with the referencing, etc. CAS, TOK and EE do not help you for university; at university you do not need to spend hours volunteering at something you don't want to do and/or don't have time for. All referencing is taught from scratch anyway.

    Why do you think IB students get higher offers? Surely the likes of Oxbridge are smart enough to have the high IB requirements as opposed to A-levels. It's not like they hate the IB because it's not British so they'll be unfair. The subjects are not in as much depth than A-levels, so higher points are needed to compete with A-level students.
    I think that you misunderstood me.

    By a 'text' I mean a poetry anthology, novel or play. We do 15 texts. This includes poetry anthologies, novels and plays that we need to know inside out. So that's 7.5 texts per year.

    The two extra essays I was referring to were those of the EE and TOK.

    I am always writing essays. Constantly. More essays than my A Level counterparts.

    I didn't say that they help you for university. Did I mention that at all? I said that these are included in the offer.

    I don't know why they get higher offers. I know that many universities have recently brought down their offers and I heard an interview on the BBC not too long ago with a CEO of a company (I forget which one). He said he would be more likely to hire someone who had completed the IB. I'm sure if you search YouTube you can find the interview. I didn't say it's because they hate the IB because it isn't British... You're creating an argument where there is not one. However, it is unfair. For example, the Cambridge offer for Arts and Sciences is different: A*AA and A*A*A respectively. However, for IB they are both the same at 40-41 and 776 at HL. This does not seem fair to me. I may have misinterpreted it though.

    Not only this, but some universities are now admitting students who have completed the IB into second year of university rather than having to do a first year at uni. I think this is very telling.
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    Think the reason is hardly anyone has any idea it even exists never mind what it's like


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    (Original post by ILovePancakes)

    Not only this, but some universities are now admitting students who have completed the IB into second year of university rather than having to do a first year at uni. I think this is very telling.
    I'll quote the rest of your post later.

    No they are not. Give me evidence for this and say which universities. This would only happen in Scotland (with A-levels too), because the Scottish curriculum is not as in-depth as A2 levels, so their first year of a four year degree is at A2 level.
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    (Original post by Pectorac)
    Again, another reason the IB offers are higher is because you can get 3 bonus points for doing nothing except for write something any A-level student can do. They're not points you get for the required subjects and contribute nothing to your understanding of what you're studying at HL.

    The EPQ is rising in popularity and you can just do it anyway if your school doesn't offer it. You get a senior teacher who wouldn't mind marking it and do it off your own back. If people are losing marks for referencing at university then they're not trying hard enough; EE would have helped the, but at university level they should be able to sit down for a couple of hours and learn how to do things properly.
    Do you know how many people actually get three bonus points? Hardly any. I go to a top 5 uni, got 39 and only got two bonus points. TOK is so subjective that it's nearly impossible to get an A and most people get a B or a C for their EE. Whilst I agree TOK is a bit **** and isn't an indicator of understanding I do think the EE is. Most people write their EE on one of their HLs and you have to specify what subject your writing it on on UCAS applications. Therefore an A in an EE for history shows a wider understanding of history that goes above and beyond the requirement for HL History.

    Whilst that works in theory, you forget coming to uni is a huge shock for a lot of people and on top of everything else referencing is the last thing they'll want to be learning a few weeks after freshers. Which is why those who do the IB are automatically at an advantage having done their Extended essays

    Yes more people are doing the EPQ but EVERY student who enters for the full IB diploma writes an extended essay.
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    (Original post by SerLorasTyrell)
    Think the reason is hardly anyone has any idea it even exists never mind what it's like


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    That just isn't true.

    Unis grade requirements are generally listed in the prospectus as:

    A levels
    Scottish Highers
    IB

    The IB is becoming more and more
    Recognised, especially with more and more top schools offering it

    4000 students sat the IB in the UK in 2013
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    (Original post by Pectorac)
    I'll quote the rest of your post later.

    No they are not. Give me evidence for this and say which universities. This would only happen in Scotland (with A-levels too), because the Scottish curriculum is not as in-depth as A2 levels, so their first year of a four year degree is at A2 level.
    Yes they are.

    Ok.

    The University of San Francisco recognizes the academic challenge and motivation inherent in the IB Diploma Program. Such a program, satisfactorily completed, will virtually guarantee an applicant admission to USF. In addition, the University will grant advanced placement of 10 semester units for each higher level result of 4, 5, 6, or 7. Thus a student with 3 such results will automatically be placed in the second (sophomore) year of the Bachelor's degree program. Where applicable, these results will be applied to the General Education Curriculum (GEC) requirements. Excess credits will be counted as electives towards the Bachelor's degree.
    http://www.ibo.org/country/universit...NITED%20STATES

    My IB coordinator emailed me this. I haven't looked into it because I'm not interested in studying abroad, but I know that a girl in the IB forum had an offer where she would go straight into sophomore year.
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    (Original post by ILovePancakes)
    Yes they are.

    Ok.



    http://www.ibo.org/country/universit...NITED%20STATES

    My IB coordinator emailed me this. I haven't looked into it because I'm not interested in studying abroad, but I know that a girl in the IB forum had an offer where she would go straight into sophomore year.
    Again, American degrees are 4 years long for a bachelor's, so it's nothing special to be admitted into the second year; the US AP exams are not as challenging as IB or A-levels. This would never happen in a UK university for a three year bachelor's degree.
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    (Original post by ILovePancakes)
    I think that you misunderstood me.

    By a 'text' I mean a poetry anthology, novel or play. We do 15 texts. This includes poetry anthologies, novels and plays that we need to know inside out. So that's 7.5 texts per year.

    The two extra essays I was referring to were those of the EE and TOK.

    I am always writing essays. Constantly. More essays than my A Level counterparts.

    I didn't say that they help you for university. Did I mention that at all? I said that these are included in the offer.

    I don't know why they get higher offers. I know that many universities have recently brought down their offers and I heard an interview on the BBC not too long ago with a CEO of a company (I forget which one). He said he would be more likely to hire someone who had completed the IB. I'm sure if you search YouTube you can find the interview. I didn't say it's because they hate the IB because it isn't British... You're creating an argument where there is not one. However, it is unfair. For example, the Cambridge offer for Arts and Sciences is different: A*AA and A*A*A respectively. However, for IB they are both the same at 40-41 and 776 at HL. This does not seem fair to me. I may have misinterpreted it though.

    Not only this, but some universities are now admitting students who have completed the IB into second year of university rather than having to do a first year at uni. I think this is very telling.
    Which universities are doing this? The only ones I can imagine that are doing this are the ones where the entire first year is pretty much a rehash of A-Level/IB level content anyway.

    For what it's worth, for most science subjects at Oxford those with top A-Level grades in that subject are much more likely to outperform (i.e. get a first) throughout their degree than someone with the top IB score in that subject.
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    (Original post by Pectorac)
    Again, American degrees are 4 years long for a bachelor's, so it's nothing special to be admitted into the second year; the US AP exams are not as challenging as IB or A-levels. This would never happen in a UK university for a three year bachelor's degree.
    I think it's pretty special.... No it wouldn't happen in the UK because of the nature of the degrees on offer, but I think it's pretty telling nevertheless.

    (Original post by Noble.)
    Which universities are doing this? The only ones I can imagine that are doing this are the ones where the entire first year is pretty much a rehash of A-Level/IB level content anyway.

    For what it's worth, for most science subjects at Oxford those with top A-Level grades in that subject are much more likely to outperform (i.e. get a first) throughout their degree than someone with the top IB score in that subject.
    Some foreign universities. I mentioned the University of San Fransisco above.

    OK, I didn't know that. I'd be interested in seeing the article or whatever where you got these statistics?
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    (Original post by ILovePancakes)
    I think it's pretty special.... No it wouldn't happen in the UK because of the nature of the degrees on offer, but I think it's pretty telling nevertheless.


    Some foreign universities. I mentioned the University of San Fransisco above.

    OK, I didn't know that. I'd be interested in seeing the article or whatever where you got these statistics?
    It's actually pretty commonplace for IB and A-level students to be admitted into the second year of a US degree. The American equivalent of A-levels only covers 50-60% of what A-levels do, and the first year of the degree is just going to be what has been learnt at A-level or IB. US universities recognise A-levels as well as the IB; the IB is more known in the US, but any decent US university knows what A-levels are and let people in with them. Even Harvard and Stanford accept A-levels: http://www.harvard-ukadmissions.co.u...%20Profile.pdf
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    (Original post by ILovePancakes)
    I think it's pretty special.... No it wouldn't happen in the UK because of the nature of the degrees on offer, but I think it's pretty telling nevertheless.


    Some foreign universities. I mentioned the University of San Fransisco above.

    OK, I didn't know that. I'd be interested in seeing the article or whatever where you got these statistics?
    Well yes, but A-Level students would get straight into the second year as well because the first year of an American university education starts at a lower level than first year at a British university.

    The statistics are my own, since I'm actually doing statistical analysis on a range of topics for the university over the summer.
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    (Original post by Pectorac)
    It's actually pretty commonplace for IB and A-level students to be admitted into the second year of a US degree. The American equivalent of A-levels only covers 50-75% of what A-levels do, and the first year of the degree is just going to be what has been learnt and A-level or IB. US universities recognise A-levels as well as the IB; the IB is more known in the US, but any decent US university knows what A-levels are and let people in with them. Even Harvard and Stanford accept A-levels.
    I don't get it. You're creating an argument again where there is none. I didn't say that A Levels weren't recognised by US universities. I know that people get in with A Levels. OK, this isn't particular to the IB. I thought it was as I hadn't heard of A Level students being admitted straight into second year.

    (Original post by Noble.)
    Well yes, but A-Level students would get straight into the second year as well because the first year of an American university education starts at a lower level than first year at a British university.

    The statistics are my own, since I'm actually doing statistical analysis on a range of topics for the university over the summer.
    I didn't know about A Level students being admitted straight in - I thought this was particular to the IB. When I was informed of it, this is what was made out to me.

    Oh, ok. Thanks anyway.
 
 
 
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