If you're for gay rights surely you should be for incest? Watch

Sid99
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#21
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#21
(Original post by sean.17)
why isn't the rights for heterosexuals mentioned within this? lol.
Because we're not discussing heterosexuals?
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Kaiju
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#22
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(Original post by Sid99)
There is space for abuse in everything I'm just referring to if someone just raised them as a chi.d and then they fell in love with each other - also what about brothers and sisters then, it isn't the same kind of situation as parents and child?
Older w/ younger siblings, yeah. Totally.
Less so than parent/child, but still potential for abuse simply because of birthrite.

While it's true that most relationships are imbalanced (there's a healthy level of submissive/dominance), it's not of the same degree and it's not with people from birth - it's not with someone who brought you up, who potentially instilled most of your worldview in you. There's a lot of risk of kids being genuinely raised in a toxic environment where from the day they are born they're told "you do this because I'm your parent and it's what I want, it would make me happy - it's not illegal, either - you don't want to disappoint me do you?".

While I'd like to be able to believe any pair of people who end up in the situation you're describing, the fact is that being supportive of it in the way that modern society is supportive of gay rights opens up a can of worms the size of Jupiter and would likely end incredibly badly.
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Solarburst
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#23
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Sure, why the **** not.
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yo radical one
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#24
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(Original post by Green_Pink)
Whilst it's something I would never ever want to be involved in myself, I wouldn't actually mind if incestuous relationships were legalised.
It should be.


It disgusts me as much as sucking a **** would disgust me, but essentially incestual relationships are in the same place as homosexual relationships were during the Victorian era. Wrongly kept illegal to appease the prejudices of the majority, the state has no right to say no.
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young_guns
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Sid99)

I'm also interested to hear if there are any gay members of TSR your opinions on this topic.
That's the biggest load of horse ****. Gay people don't have any obligation to be anything simply because of their sexuality, that's retrograde nonsense.

Furthermore, the question of incest is completely independent of homosexuality and should be treated thus (there is straight and gay incest). It is homophobic to claim gay people have some kind of unique obligation to be in favour of a father ****ing his daughter simply because they prefer to be with John rather than Jane.

The most important consideration here is that incest is damaging to the family unit and family cohesion, whether children might result or not. It confuses and undermines family relationships and the integrity of the family unit in a way that homosexuality does not.

If you deprive gay people of being able to have relationships with one another, you damage them and prevent them from having positive relationships. Allowing gay people to have relationships, to get married, to have children, is positive socially and encourages family formation and healthy family units.

Incest, on the other hand, has no benefits for the formation of healthy family units. And a critical point here is that if you tell a guy he can't **** his brother, then there are still many other partners our there (incest is not a sexual orientation, there are still other potential partners). If you tell gay people they cannot be with someone of the same sex, there are no other potential partners.

In summary, incest damages families in a way that homosexuality does not. Gay people have no obligation to be in favour of something that is fundamentally damaging to families and individuals.
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Green_Pink
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#26
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#26
(Original post by yo radical one)
It should be.


It disgusts me as much as sucking a **** would disgust me, but essentially incestual relationships are in the same place as homosexual relationships were during the Victorian era. Wrongly kept illegal to appease the prejudices of the majority, the state has no right to say no.
I can see the logic behind keeping it illegal, but there's no good solution for me. If we make it totally illegal in all cases that's as you say unfair when it's none of our business what others want to do in bed. If we only made it illegal for fertile straight couples that presents an inequality with other incestuous couples and we would also logically have to ban carriers of genetically transmitted diseases from procreation - plus you could never prove they actually had vaginal sex and thus a risk of pregnancy, and only making that illegal could pressure women into abortions. The only real reason it's illegal is the "ewwww" factor which really isn't good enough as much as most of us are repulsed by it.
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Sid99
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#27
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#27
(Original post by young_guns)
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You started your point off by stating that gay people can do whatever they want essentially, then closed it by saying other people can't have a sexual preference because of your assumptions on what might happen. You also ignored most of my OP.

By the way I don't know if you were trying to come off as really tough via the tone of your post. But you just made yourself seem as if you have some sort of little man syndrome.
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minimarshmallow
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#28
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It's difficult to establish full consent in these relationships - power dynamics have already been touched upon.
The children issue is a difficult one, but as people keep pointing out - those who have cystic fibrosis or a family history of Huntington's disease aren't banned from having children either.
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young_guns
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#29
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(Original post by Sid99)
By the way I don't know if you were trying to come off as really tough via the tone of your post. But you just made yourself seem as if you have some sort of little man syndrome.
:lol: And we're off with the ad hominem attacks. What a laughable response.
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holocene
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#30
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I'm kind of ok with the incest laws as they are now. I agree that incest is basically acceptable (or, at least, nobody's business) as long as there is no coercion or power misbalance - so never between parent and child - but unfortunately I think most incestuous relationships do involve exploitation and power misbalance. I think the law needs to have room to be able to prosecute people for that.

It's kind of like the age of consent/15 years olds having sex with older people - the law is there for when it's needed, and for when there's been an abuse of power, but on the whole, when a relationship is harmless, there aren't really legal consequences, even if it's technically illegal.
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9823899s89jojs
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#31
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Incestuous relationships can produce messed up children. We are naturally made to be repulsed by incest because it can ruin the population. It's against nature because it allows for genetic problems in future generations.

Homosexual relationships don't produce any children. There are many more gay people than incestous people, in both the animal kingdom and in the human population. The fact that evolution hasn't stopped it suggests it doesn't pose a problem to nature. The reason many oppose it is because it is against God - most older religions are against it.

The argument is that nature definitely exists, but people are unsure of God's existance and it isn't fair to treat people badly on the account of something that may not be real.
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Sid99
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#32
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#32
(Original post by young_guns)
:lol: And we're off with the ad hominem attacks. What a laughable response.
It was an observation.
Please don't cry all over my thread dude.

P.S. you started it off with the stupid online forum macho antics.

I'll be ignoring you
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young_guns
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#33
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(Original post by Sid99)
It was an observation.
Please don't cry all over my thread dude.

P.S. you started it off with the stupid online forum macho antics.

I'll be ignoring you
Go on, stamp your tiny foot. Get it all out
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felamaslen
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#34
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Siblings should be allowed to do whatever they like together, as long as they don't have children - as far as I'm concerned, anyway.
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thunder_chunky
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#35
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(Original post by Sid99)
I would just like to make it known that I am completely for equal rights for gay people in every way.

But it's just something I've been thinking about. Surely if you're for gay rights then you must be for the rights of those who wish to be in an incestuous relationship?

Let me lay down my reasoning for this.


Gay people:


Over 16,18 it's their choice/Naturally attracted to people of the same gender/with a condom sex is safe (to a degree)/Their choice who they fall in love with/They're not hurting anybody.[B]
:facepalm: :facepalm: It's not their choice who they fall in love with any more than it is for a straight person.
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Mackay
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#36
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#36
Horrendous.
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young_guns
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#37
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(Original post by thunder_chunky)
:facepalm: :facepalm: It's not their choice who they fall in love with any more than it is for a straight person.
One of a number of schoolboy errors in the post.

I always find it so odd that people feel unable to come out and say, "I think incest is okay". It always has to be, "Gay people should be in favour of incest".

I would have thought, in this day and age, people shouldn't be expected to be anything in particular because of their sexuality. It's like getting angry at a gay guy for being a conservative, as if he has some kind of obligation to be left wing
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Sid99
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#38
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#38
(Original post by thunder_chunky)
:facepalm: :facepalm: It's not their choice who they fall in love with any more than it is for a straight person.
What are you talking about?
Please learn in what context you should use the :facepalm: smilie.
I haven't said anything against gay people - we're discussing that idea that if you support homosexual relationships shouldn't you support other sexual preferences that people have.
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Sid99
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#39
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(Original post by young_guns)
One of a number of schoolboy errors in the post.

I always find it so odd that people feel unable to come out and say, "I think incest is okay". It always has to be, "Gay people should be in favour of incest".

I would have thought, in this day and age, people shouldn't be expected to be anything in particular because of their sexuality. It's like getting angry at a gay guy for being a conservative, as if he has some kind of obligation to be left wing
I'm asking people in general; if you are in support of gay rights shouldn't you be in support of other sexual preferences.
I only ASKED at the end that I'd like to also hear the opinion of homosexuals on the matter.What's wrong with that? I'm not telling them they have to be . I don't care where you stick it if that's the problem.
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thunder_chunky
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#40
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(Original post by Sid99)
What are you talking about?
Please learn in what context you should use the :facepalm: smilie.
I haven't said anything against gay people - we're discussing that idea that if you support homosexual relationships shouldn't you support other sexual preferences that people have.
When you said:

"Gay people:

Over 16,18 it's their choice/Naturally attracted to people of the same gender/with a condom sex is safe (to a degree)/Their choice who they fall in love with/They're not hurting anybody."


I took that to mean you were implying they, as adults, choose to be attracted to people of the same gender, and choose to fall in love with people of the same gender. If this is the case, I understand you are playing the devils advocate but you are doing so badly.
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