'Everything that happens to you in life, good or bad, is entirely your fault'-erm wtf Watch

Professor Purple
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#21
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Your life is in your hands. The mistakes we make in life have consequences. The 'accidents' and un-avoidable circumstances in life can still be reversed by being proactive.
For example, being born into a poor family isnt an excuse for you being poor when you're older. You had the chance to have an education but you never took the opportunity.
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Schrödingers Cat
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#22
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(Original post by miser)
If I punched myself in the face, why did I punch myself in the face? There will be a reason, for example, that I was raised to punch myself in the face.
I just punched myself in the face reading your comment
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miser
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(Original post by Schrödingers Cat)
I just punched myself in the face reading your comment
That was my fault, I apologise.
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cartesio
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(Original post by Schrödingers Cat)
I just punched myself in the face reading your comment
I tried this as well. As a Cartesian I doubted it would have any effect, unfortunately I cannot think pain out of existence.
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SophieSmall
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(Original post by miser)
If I punched myself in the face, why did I punch myself in the face? There will be a reason, for example, that I was raised to punch myself in the face.
Okay...so say someone was raised to be a white supremacist but decided against it and were not racist. Who's fault is that?
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miser
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(Original post by SophieSmall)
Okay...so say someone was raised to be a white supremacist but decided against it and were not racist. Who's fault is that?
No one's fault.
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miser
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(Original post by cartesio)
I tried this as well. As a Cartesian I doubted it would have any effect, unfortunately I cannot think pain out of existence.
Are you sure you really punched yourself in the face, or is a demon tricking you into thinking you punched yourself in the face?
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cartesio
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(Original post by miser)
Are you sure you really punched yourself in the face, or is a demon tricking you into thinking you punched yourself in the face?
That's a very good question. Now God isn't a deceiver right? He is a perfect being and therefore everything else must be less than perfect, which means that demon is overpowered by the will of God, since God is benevolent he would not trick me into thinking I had not punched myself in the face. Alternatively, I could try again.
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German123
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(Original post by OU Student)
It makes no sense at all. I've had people stalk / harass me, which I've pretty much been told is my fault. :mad: They were the ones who cose to act that way.
Do you not think there is no smoke without fire? Are you saying you did no wrong to them?
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miser
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(Original post by cartesio)
That's a very good question. Now God isn't a deceiver right? He is a perfect being and therefore everything else must be less than perfect, which means that demon is overpowered by the will of God, since God is benevolent he would not trick me into thinking I had not punched myself in the face. Alternatively, I could try again.
If God is perfect in all facets, then he is also the perfect deceiver. If the demon is overpowered by the will of God and God is benevolent, then the demon must be tricking you into thinking you have punched yourself in the face for benevolent reasons. Alternatively, you could try again.
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Tiger Rag
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(Original post by German123)
Do you not think there is no smoke without fire? Are you saying you did no wrong to them?
My only crime was to give out my mobile number to one of them. Other than that, despite what other people have said to me, I actually did nothing to them. One of them now wonders why I completely blank him.:rolleyes:
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KenichiLeNoir
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Just read up on Stoicism - Marcus Aurelius, Seneca etc. Problem solved.
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Smash Bandicoot
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(Original post by miser)
I wouldn't say so. But what does or doesn't encourage a victim mentality doesn't speak to its truth value.


If I raised a person and taught them to punch themselves in the face, would it be their fault?
I don't follow I sense you're playing devil's advocate on this one Miser
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miser
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(Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
I don't follow I sense you're playing devil's advocate on this one Miser
Nope I'm serious. My belief is that we don't hold any responsibility for events that happen to us, and I believe that irrespective of whether such a view encourages a victim mentality or not.
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Smash Bandicoot
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(Original post by miser)
Nope I'm serious. My belief is that we don't hold any responsibility for events that happen to us, and I believe that irrespective of whether such a view encourages a victim mentality or not.
so what do we hold responsibility for?
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miser
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(Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
so what do we hold responsibility for?
Nothing.
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KenichiLeNoir
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(Original post by miser)
If I punched myself in the face, why did I punch myself in the face? There will be a reason, for example, that I was raised to punch myself in the face.
Are you suggesting that humans are essentially sponges at a fundamental level and that every action we undertake is attributable to the experiences we've encountered and the way we were raised?

I refuse to believe humans can be influenced by our surroundings to such a degree that hitting ourselves is something they that we shouldn't take at least a little responsibility for.

To paraphrase the words of Stoic philosophers: we can only control our reactions to things beyond our control - punching yourself is within most people's control.

I think the extent to which someone operates in accordance with how they are raised is largely due to that person - even in the most oppressive societies (e.g. Japan), there are always those people that deviate from conformity even though they've been raised in the same manner as all their peers and have had no exposure to other ideals.

I do get what you're saying though, just don't think upbringing or experiences are a way of negating responsibility from individuals.
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miser
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(Original post by KenichiLeNoir)
Are you suggesting that humans are essentially sponges at a fundamental level and that every action we undertake is attributable to the experiences we've encountered and the way we were raised?
No, I just used the hypothetical of a person being raised to exhibit a certain behaviour as an example of a causal influence for that behaviour.

(Original post by KenichiLeNoir)
I refuse to believe humans can be influenced by our surroundings to such a degree that hitting ourselves is something they that we shouldn't take at least a little responsibility for.

To paraphrase the words of Stoic philosophers: we can only control our reactions to things beyond our control - punching yourself is within most people's control.

I think the extent to which someone operates in accordance with how they are raised is largely due to that person - even in the most oppressive societies (e.g. Japan), there are always those people that deviate from conformity even though they've been raised in the same manner as all their peers and have had no exposure to other ideals.

I do get what you're saying though, just don't think upbringing or experiences are a way of negating responsibility from individuals.
Thanks for your considered response. I enjoy and agree with some of the stoic thinking, but in this case I think we would need to more closely inspect what it means to have 'control'. I think the person would superficially have control over the act of punching themselves in the face, as they would be the conscious instigator of that action, but in a deeper sense I do not believe they had the freedom not to be the conscious instigator of that action.
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Octohedral
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"Luck is where preparation meets opportunity".

Obviously you can't help what random events happen to you - where you are born, whether you happen to pass the right person in the street, whether you suddenly get hit by a falling piano, etc. However, you can greatly increase your chances of success relative to what they would be otherwise by preparing, and directing.

For example, say you want to get onto a certain PhD, and are attending a load of seminars, with no great expectation. Student A prepares for that topic before attending a seminar, and student B doesn't. An eminent professor, and potential supervisor turns up unexpectedly. Student A gets talking to him, ends up as his student, and his whole career is shaped by that meeting.

Statistically, bad things will happen to you, and good things will happen to you. You need to be ready to catch the good things.

That's the essence of the statement (if poorly worded). It's not saying 'it's your fault if you get hit by a bus', it's trying to tell you most people have more power to change their lives than they think they do. I have found this to be true.

Incidentally, being told you can take control of your life is an event that happens to you.
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Smash Bandicoot
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(Original post by Octohedral)
"Luck is where preparation meets opportunity".

Obviously you can't help what random events happen to you - where you are born, whether you happen to pass the right person in the street, whether you suddenly get hit by a falling piano, etc. However, you can greatly increase your chances of success relative to what they would be otherwise by preparing, and directing.

For example, say you want to get onto a certain PhD, and are attending a load of seminars, with no great expectation. Student A prepares for that topic before attending a seminar, and student B doesn't. An eminent professor, and potential supervisor turns up unexpectedly. Student A gets talking to him, ends up as his student, and his whole career is shaped by that meeting.

Statistically, bad things will happen to you, and good things will happen to you. You need to be ready to catch the good things.

That's the essence of the statement (if poorly worded). It's not saying 'it's your fault if you get hit by a bus', it's trying to tell you most people have more power to change their lives than they think they do. I have found this to be true.

Incidentally, being told you can take control of your life is an event that happens to you.
Is this not just a variant on the controlling reactions to events (including non-events, and the lack of an event?) For example, controlling your reaction to lack of career success, relationship success and so on?
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