Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joey11223)
    Lol no living wage supporter? You parasite!

    But seriously I mean lets be realistic, if the tube train is driving itself 99% of the time, and you very occasionally might have to take over, so you're a glorified customer service person, surely the salary would have to have a significant cut? I mean I assume they may not be able to with current drivers, but as they retired new folks get less (happened where I work). Because really bar giving an inner city pay increase compared to outside it, the job would surely be more like a £20-30k thing not £40k starting salary + benefits (which for long term employees can amount to over £60k).
    I'd imagine the upheaval this would cause will be a nightmare.

    The worrying thing for many people would be long term effects. I hate "slippery slope" arguments, but if I were a train driver, I'd be a little bit sweaty should driverless underground trains become accepted.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    I'd imagine the upheaval this would cause will be a nightmare.

    The worrying thing for many people would be long term effects. I hate "slippery slope" arguments, but if I were a train driver, I'd be a little bit sweaty should driverless underground trains become accepted.
    Aye but at some point it'll be done so..,you just have to work through it, if the union wants to block every avenue then on their heads be it.

    Also same really, yes they'll probably come a point where trains are driverless, it's just progress. Same with saying those on the factory floor became more and more nervous as machines/robot arms/computers starting to be able to do more and more complex tasks, but it happened, and many of those jobs are now done my machines, now your job (albeit less of them) is to fix those machines.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joey11223)
    Aye but at some point it'll be done so..,you just have to work through it, if the union wants to block every avenue then on their heads be it.

    Also same really, yes they'll probably come a point where trains are driverless, it's just progress. Same with saying those on the factory floor became more and more nervous as machines/robot arms/computers starting to be able to do more and more complex tasks, but it happened, and many of those jobs are now done my machines, now your job (albeit less of them) is to fix those machines.
    Reminds me of:

    Ford management person: "how are you going to get those robots to pay your union dues?"

    Some other guy: "how are you going to get them to buy your cars?"
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    To piss you off. Looks like it was a success.





    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Clip)
    Northern Line down tomorrow.

    RMT on strike in support of a driver who failed a breath test.

    How are these people relevant to the 21st century?
    The strike isn't about him being drunk, it's about the failure to follow agreed procedures by management.
    http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/dismissal...or--morden-lu/

    Most people would be disgusted if the management of their own workplaces refused to follow stated employment procedures. Why is it that London Underground workers should have to put up with it?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Reminds me of:

    Ford management person: "how are you going to get those robots to pay your union dues?"

    Some other guy: "how are you going to get them to buy your cars?"
    I'll be honest, don't get it, the car consumer cares little for the manufacturing process, I mean a lot of stuff has been outsources to other countries anyway.

    Unless its the point now those car manufacturers are unemployed less potential people with earning power to buy them? But the saving on manufacturing cost with less wages will help them and...there's always new sectors of engineering somewhere. (lol I totally sound like a heartless Tory. Despite being in the "eeeh **** em all" category at the moment)
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:


    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The strike isn't about him being drunk, it's about the failure to follow agreed procedures by management.
    http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/dismissal...or--morden-lu/

    Most people would be disgusted if the management of their own workplaces refused to follow stated employment procedures. Why is it that London Underground workers should have to put up with it?
    Because anyone who isn't an arse-kissing Tory boy has to get a good whoppin' in the modern economy, obviously.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joey11223)
    I'll be honest, don't get it, the car consumer cares little for the manufacturing process, I mean a lot of stuff has been outsources to other countries anyway.

    Unless its the point now those car manufacturers are unemployed less potential people with earning power to buy them? But the saving on manufacturing cost with less wages will help them and...there's always new sectors of engineering somewhere. (lol I totally sound like a heartless Tory. Despite being in the "eeeh **** em all" category at the moment)
    Yeah - its the point of demand. If workers are displaced by robots, then they will be unable (or less able) to buy the products the robots now make. Whether or not the price of things come down significantly enough is down to the company.

    ChaoticButterfly's video above is really interesting. It points out that it isn't just blue collar, low skilled jobs which are at risk and that one has to be careful before assuming that new jobs will be created.

    It might happen in some instances - robots take over. You have someone to maintain the robot and maybe more people who do research and other complicated stuff which was not an option before robots came onto the scene. But I expect that by and large, more automation will mean fewer jobs for humans.

    Just go to your local Asda or Tesco. Maybe 10 checkout operators have been replaced by some robots and one human supervisor.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    there have been cases where airline pilots failed breath tests due to ketones... nothing to do with alcohol...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...g-on-diet.html
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Yeah - its the point of demand. If workers are displaced by robots, then they will be unable (or less able) to buy the products the robots now make. Whether or not the price of things come down significantly enough is down to the company.

    ChaoticButterfly's video above is really interesting. It points out that it isn't just blue collar, low skilled jobs which are at risk and that one has to be careful before assuming that new jobs will be created.

    It might happen in some instances - robots take over. You have someone to maintain the robot and maybe more people who do research and other complicated stuff which was not an option before robots came onto the scene. But I expect that by and large, more automation will mean fewer jobs for humans.

    Just go to your local Asda or Tesco. Maybe 10 checkout operators have been replaced by some robots and one human supervisor.
    Sadly your argument doesn't ring true.

    The argument is logical, but in reality, investment in technology, although reducing workforce size creates opportunities elsewhere for those who loose their jobs.

    Steam engines, containerisation, computers etc etc
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Skip_Snip)
    I guess they're allowed to strike because they're not as easily replaceable as you?
    They can be also easily replaceable considering there are lots of people looking for jobs
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ForgetMe)
    Why are they even allowed to strike? If we would go on a strike at work, they would fire all of us straight away. All these RMT idiots just cause so much trouble to other passengers who commute daily to work/university/other stuff.

    Out of curiosity, how much do they get paid per hour? :hmmm:
    I'm no expert but isn't it illegal to fire someone for striking? The only thing is you have to accept no pay but other than that there's nothing they can do for a set time?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Yeah - its the point of demand. If workers are displaced by robots, then they will be unable (or less able) to buy the products the robots now make. Whether or not the price of things come down significantly enough is down to the company.

    ChaoticButterfly's video above is really interesting. It points out that it isn't just blue collar, low skilled jobs which are at risk and that one has to be careful before assuming that new jobs will be created.

    It might happen in some instances - robots take over. You have someone to maintain the robot and maybe more people who do research and other complicated stuff which was not an option before robots came onto the scene. But I expect that by and large, more automation will mean fewer jobs for humans.
    I'm all for it. Have a computing revolution that causes serious economic problems forcing us to invent something new.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Sadly your argument doesn't ring true.

    The argument is logical, but in reality, investment in technology, although reducing workforce size creates opportunities elsewhere for those who loose their jobs.

    Steam engines, containerisation, computers etc etc
    Really? Is this true - I'm not totally convinced.

    If you are right - then I'd disagree with the word sadly! I'd also wonder if it is temporary? What happens when robots start doing the jobs other robots have moved humans to? I.e. - the former Asda checkout worker being replaced by a shelf filling robot etc.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AdamCee)
    I'm no expert but isn't it illegal to fire someone for striking? The only thing is you have to accept no pay but other than that there's nothing they can do for a set time?
    Not sure, never went on strike
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The strike isn't about him being drunk, it's about the failure to follow agreed procedures by management.
    http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/dismissal...or--morden-lu/

    Most people would be disgusted if the management of their own workplaces refused to follow stated employment procedures. Why is it that London Underground workers should have to put up with it?
    They don't have to put up with it. That's what the Employment Tribunal is for - a process which will deliver judgement, certainty and outcome. A strike achieves absolutely nothing, and disrupts the lives of hundreds of thousands.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Really? Is this true - I'm not totally convinced.

    If you are right - then I'd disagree with the word sadly! I'd also wonder if it is temporary? What happens when robots start doing the jobs other robots have moved humans to? I.e. - the former Asda checkout worker being replaced by a shelf filling robot etc.
    It's difficult to think of a modern day technological improvement that hasn't improved society. Steam engines put people in cottages industry's out of work. The motor car put horse and cart owners out if work. Containerisation put dockers out of work and so on.
    Society has however improved.

    There's only a minority of people that actually think that living a subsistence farming lifestyle a la pre industrial revolution is actually a step forward.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    It's difficult to think of a modern day technological improvement that hasn't improved society. Steam engines put people in cottages industry's out of work. The motor car put horse and cart owners out if work. Containerisation put dockers out of work and so on.
    Society has however improved.

    There's only a minority of people that actually think that living a subsistence farming lifestyle a la pre industrial revolution is actually a step forward.
    Normally the issue is not so much about replacing the jobs, but about the humane treatment and planned, staged re-location of workers. Often the older workers in particular are not easily able to find new work at anything like the same pay rates as before. There is a chronic tendency for big employers in these situations to engage in ruthless behaviour towards large groups of people, harming not just the employees but whole districts that rely on them. See: Miners, Communities as an example. North Notts and other mining areas have still not recovered from the lethal blow to their bedrock economy back in the early 80s!

    Of course, London is a different economy to the N. Midlands, but as a group, transport workers will find it hard to find alternative work. It isn't plausible that a reactionary bore and self-obsessed vanity politician like Boris will be genuinely interested in their future welfare. If you were a tube driver confronted with that reality, what would you do?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Normally the issue is not so much about replacing the jobs, but about the humane treatment and planned, staged re-location of workers. Often the older workers in particular are not easily able to find new work at anything like the same pay rates as before. There is a chronic tendency for big employers in these situations to engage in ruthless behaviour towards large groups of people, harming not just the employees but whole districts that rely on them. See: Miners, Communities as an example. North Notts and other mining areas have still not recovered from the lethal blow to their bedrock economy back in the early 80s!

    Of course, London is a different economy to the N. Midlands, but as a group, transport workers will find it hard to find alternative work. It isn't plausible that a reactionary bore and self-obsessed vanity politician like Boris will be genuinely interested in their future welfare. If you were a tube driver confronted with that reality, what would you do?
    Times change, but you can be sure that the RMT will do it's best not to
    Love with the times.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Surprised at how anti-union TSR is... unions are a bit like business, some are dicks some are good
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: December 2, 2014
Poll
Black Friday: Yay or Nay?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.