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Criticism of Israel is not anti-semitic? watch

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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    The least often used definition is normally placed last, by convention. Of course that doesn't mean that those with an axe to grind will not say otherwise.
    Interesting; an "axe to grind". What axe is that?
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    (Original post by samba)
    What do you think about the absolutely retarded 20% vat for non resident citizens?!?!?!?! hihi citizens, join the army for 2 years, go away and pay taxes elsewhere, then come and pay retarded rates if you want to visit.Emigrate and suffer.
    I haven't heard about that, what is this tax? I'd like to know more
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    Interesting; an "axe to grind". What axe is that?
    That would depend on the wielder of the axe.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    That would depend on the wielder of the axe.
    But specifically... what axe are we talking about? And what grinding?

    Just throw some examples out there

    By the way, whatever the meaning of semitic / semite, you presumably don't deny that anti-semitic specifically means anti-Jewish?
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    But specifically... what axe are we talking about? And what grinding?

    Just throw some examples out there
    Well, someone who felt strongly that criticising Israel is an anti-semitic act, for instance, might argue that dictionaries don't normally place the most common usage first in their listing, or might ignore the other definitions of the word altogether, or might go further and pretend that the word has only one definition .
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    meh

    (Original post by sugar-n-spice)
    But hey, you just want to jump on the thing which relates to the Jews, I wonder why that could be...
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    What is a Semite? Could arabs also be considered to be Semite?
    Arabs can be Semites. Many Israeli citizens are Arabs.
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    By the way, whatever the meaning of semitic / semite, you presumably don't deny that anti-semitic specifically means anti-Jewish?
    It certainly can do. However, I was discussing (and quoted) the definition of "semitic", specifically.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    It certainly can do..
    It "can do"? It does.

    I've always found it interesting when pro-Palestine advocates insist on having a debate about the meaning of the words semitic / anti-semitic etc when the subject comes up.

    It's almost as though they wanted to avoid discussing the substantive issue...
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Well, someone who felt strongly that criticising Israel is an anti-semitic act
    Who is this "someone"? I've actually never met anyone who claims that any and all criticism of Israel is inherently and automatically anti-semitic.

    I have, on the other hand, seen criticism of Israel that is undoubtedly based on anti-semitic beliefs.
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    It "can do"? It does.

    I've always found it interesting when pro-Palestine advocates insist on having a debate about the meaning of the words semitic / anti-semitic etc when the subject comes up.

    It's almost as though they wanted to avoid discussing the substantive issue...
    Well, I take no sides in that argument but the issue is, surely, that the state of Israel was imposed by the UN on an area of land that held a large number of non-Jews who resented it, and their friends elsewhere agreed with them. While holding a legal right to exist, derived from the UN, the Israeli state has been singularly insensitive in its means of dealing with the inhabitants of lands it has invaded while defending itself from aggressive and futile attempts to restore ownership of Israeli territory to Arab control. And the whole situation continues to be exacerbated by wilful intransigence and aggression on both sides.

    All arguments born out of superstitious beliefs are doomed to go the same way, as was illustrated by Jonathan Swift in "Gulliver's Travels".
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    Who is this "someone"?
    I don't have an individual in mind. I was making a general point.
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    To be fair, much of the criticism aimed at Israel is not aimed at its enemies, whose human rights abuses are far worse, whose conduct in war is far worse, and who have openly called for genocide against the Jews (Nasser, Al-Husseini, Hamas, Hezbollah etc. have all done so). So while criticism of Israel is obviously not axiomatically antisemitic, I don't think many people claim that. Rather, they claim that the actual criticism of Israel which does occur is often unfair, and they use antisemitism to explain why people levy this unfair criticism.

    I actually don't think the unfair criticism is due to antisemitism. I think it is because Israel is so obviously a democracy, while its enemies so obviously are not, and there is a certain type of person, especially in the Western world, who likes to judge democracies very differently to non-democracies. To them, non-democracies, because they are poor (due to their lack of freedom), are "victims", while the democracies, who are rich (due to their freedom), are "oppressors". This goes well with a certain kind of left-wing mindset, though it is totally incorrect.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    Arabs can be Semites. Many Israeli citizens are Arabs.
    Thank you!
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Thank you!
    it is just a fact:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    Not at all. I'm deeply critical of Israel and its policy in the West Bank, I believe Israel is deeply misguided and has even crossed the line into criminality in some of its actions. I also believe the Palestinian organisations have engaged in criminal and terroristic acts, both against Israelis and against their own citizens

    Then again, I come at my criticism of Israel from a non anti-semitic view, something that cannot be said for many critics of Israel. And I don't believe critics of Israel are immune from being questioned on anti-semitism simply because they are a critic of Israel.

    Do you or do you not deny that anti-semitism exists and means anti-Jewish prejudice?
    Of course there are many people who are anti Israel, who ahate Jews. The same way that there are people who are anti Palestine, and hate Muslims and/or Arabs

    I mean if you apply your logic, we should question every one who is anti Palestine, on their views of Muslims/Arabs...

    And I did not deny that it doesn't exist, and I mentioned that yes anti-Semitism means hatred of Jews (See above)

    So yes you are trying to push one ideology. On the one hand you're saying you're not, but on the other you're saying that many people who criticise Israel are anti Semitic, without even looking at the other side? ie: on both sides, there are of course racists and people who just so happen to hate Jews/Muslims for whatever reason

    What's your point here? Both Pro Israeli people and Pro Palestinian people have people on "their side", who are bigoted *****...
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    Not in and of itself, no, but it often can be. Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism on the face of it deal with something which has an inherent connection - anti-Jewish state versus anti-Jewishness. It's not uncommon for these things to overlap. It true that criticism of Israel isn't always anti-Semitic in the same way that it is possible to criticise Barack Obama without being a racist. It just so happens that a lot of criticism of Obama from certain sections of American society is racist, which in no way incriminates the rest of his critics. I'd say that criticism of Israel becomes anti-Semitic when it draws upon old anti-Semitic stereotypes about Jews, such as a desire to control the world or unchecked power within the governments of foreign countries, a passionate lust for the blood of dead children, etc.
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    I can't talk from real life experience but it doesn't take much for somebody to get accused of anti-Semitism on twitter for an argument against Israel. If you wanted to find some examples you would have an easy job on social media.
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    (Original post by Asurat)
    I can't talk from real life experience but it doesn't take much for somebody to get accused of anti-Semitism on twitter for an argument against Israel. If you wanted to find some examples you would have an easy job on social media.
    usually because the people doing the criticizing are Muslims talking about Israeli capitalism... obv alarm bells ringing.
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    I have been called "anti-Semitic" for attacking God. I criticise anything and everything (including any and every god). It is when you don't and you hold back and individualise something it becomes a bit wrong. In any case it is not wrong to criticise something worthy of criticism.

    Regarding Israel/Palestine - yes we are to support Israel's right to exist (lots of states are formed on injustices) but what a stupid place to site it. In addition Israel shouldn't be able to do whatever it wants and we shouldn't be branded "anti-Semitic" for voicing even the slightest hint of criticism.
 
 
 
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