Rail fares increase yet again.

Катя

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#21

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#21

(Original post by Daftpunker)
You will forgive me but England is actually quite moderate in terms of tax.

I holidayed in Sweden in August. I learnt that the LOWEST tax rate is 45% and the rail price is around £1.50 per mile.

Yeah, but Sweden also has free higher education. Idk, they seem to use their taxes quite well. I'm not sure if I'm right on this, but I doubt that Sweden is as privatisation-crazy as the UK (?)

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Daftpunker

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#22

(Original post by Катя)
I thought by your post you meant "stop complaining about high rail fares, because they all go back into the railway" - but the point is that in the UK we have quite high taxes anyway, so when people are also forced to shell out an abnormally high amount of money to pay to get to work, of course they should complain.

...and do utterly bugger all other than that. Do you think the rail companies are bothered about 2/3 days of keyboard warriors bleating about increased fairs when they are all going to turn up again on January 2nd and pay it anyway?

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Daftpunker

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#23

Yeah, but Sweden also has free higher education. Idk, they seem to use their taxes quite well. I'm not sure if I'm right on this, but I doubt that Sweden is as privatisation-crazy as the UK (?)

Sorry so what your saying is - you'd rather pay 45% tax so peoples higher education is free?

18% of the people that start a degree course don't finish it
Probably 40% of the people that do a degree won't need it.

Also the main rail company in Sweden is privatised.

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username33685

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#24

I can only speak for my line and the tube, but over the 5 years I have been commuting I have definitely noticed things like new trains, refurbished stations, better ticket machines, slightly quicker journeys, less delays, etc. All this costs money, and I think it's fairer that the people who actually use the trains pay for it via their tickets as opposed to forcing those who don't use trains to pay for it via their taxes.

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SecretDuck

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#25

At least TFL's improvements are visible. I see very few improvements in National Rail lately. When will they replace the old and clunky trains on the Welwyn Garden City to Moorgate route?

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rockrunride

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#26

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#26

Unfortunately rail privatisation was implemented for ideological reasons with a veiled pretence of 'better service for consumers'.

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Youis Trollin

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#27

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#27

(Original post by Sulpha)
Yes people pay huge taxes in Sweden but they get a lot back from the government as a result in terms of excellent healthcare (the NHS is **** by comparison), housing, free education up to University level, maternity leave (both men and women get a year off) etc. On top of this everything is new, modern, efficient, on time etc.

In the UK however, we are forever paying increasing taxes but subsidisation for everything is being cut, the NHS is being destroyed, every road has got a billion holes in it and the cost of everything just keeps rising.

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datpiff

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#28

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#28

(Original post by SecretDuck)
At least TFL's improvements are visible. I see very few improvements in National Rail lately. When will they replace the old and clunky trains on the Welwyn Garden City to Moorgate route?

Have you ever ridden one of these? They are enough to make want to slice your wrist. I have even been stuck in a toilet and had to bang the door off a bit once. They're so ****. I feel like I'm travelling to a town in a third world country when I travel in one instead of Leeds.

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datpiff

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#29

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#29

(Original post by MatureStudent36)
So in effect you support hs2 then.

No, HS2 is just a keeping up with the Joneses project. It only serves to benefit London (well the middle class in London anyway)

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SecretDuck

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#30

(Original post by datpiff)
Have you ever ridden one of these? They are enough to make want to slice your wrist. I have even been stuck in a toilet and had to bang the door off a bit once. They're so ****. I feel like I'm travelling to a town in a third world country when I travel in one instead of Leeds.

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I've ridden on FCC and trust me, Moscow's better in National Rail and inferior in tube stock.

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Jammy Duel

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#31

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#31

(Original post by Катя)
I thought by your post you meant "stop complaining about high rail fares, because they all go back into the railway" - but the point is that in the UK we have quite high taxes anyway, so when people are also forced to shell out an abnormally high amount of money to pay to get to work, of course they should complain.

It's a "stop complaining because most of it goes back into the railways and in real terms it isn't actually that much this year". They aren't that high, although I think that when we are able to we should shift up the 40pc rate significantly and put a 30pc rate in the middle

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MatureStudent36

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#32

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#32

(Original post by datpiff)
No, HS2 is just a keeping up with the Joneses project. It only serves to benefit London (well the middle class in London anyway)

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Sadly it doesn't. Hs2 connects the UK to Europe.

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datpiff

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#33

(Original post by Jammy Duel)
It's a "stop complaining because most of it goes back into the railways and in real terms it isn't actually that much this year". They aren't that high, although I think that when we are able to we should shift up the 40pc rate significantly and put a 30pc rate in the middle

People have every right to complain. We don't do enough complaining in the UK. We don't demand excellent customer service. We just 'put up and shut up'.

When I board a train I expect to be treat like a customer and not like some sort of insignificant scum. I pay enough. I want smiles, clean trains, no rudeness... it isn't rocket science. People pay enough fares. Britain doesn't need anymore increases in fares.

In my experience I believe this what people want from a rail service:
1) regular trains that are on time
2) Train travel that is great value for money for regular travel (none of that buy online 'day tripper' nonsense)
3) Clean trains that are fit for purpose (no pacers).
4) A seat.

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datpiff

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#34

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#34

(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Sadly it doesn't. Hs2 connects the UK to Europe.

Don't you mean London to Europe?

People want value for money travel that allows them to get to work. People don't generally travel to different countries each week to get to work (unless they're in the travel industry). The UK to Europe argument doesn't sell the idea of HS2 to me as a Yorkshireman.

We haven't even got a decent mass transit system yet. The basics need to be down first. We're still in Pacers up here! You don't attempt to build a skyscraper before attempting build a house.

Londoners (middle class) also may argue that fares are cheaper up here but they don't take earnings into account.

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Jammy Duel

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#35

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(Original post by datpiff)
Don't you mean London to Europe?

People want value for money travel that allows them to get to work. People don't generally travel to different countries each week to get to work (unless they're in the travel industry). The UK to Europe argument doesn't sell the idea of HS2 to me as a Yorkshireman.

We haven't even got a decent mass transit system yet. The basics need to be down first. We're still in Pacers up here! You don't attempt to build a skyscraper before attempting build a house.

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No, he means the UK; London has been connected to Europe via "High speed" rail for over a decade (or only 7 if you only count from the opening of section 2); HS2 spreads this connection without need of a transfer to Birmingham and later the North West (and North in general).

But HS2 is being built primarily to increase capacity, not for a faster connection to Europe without transfers.

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Jammy Duel

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#36

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#36

(Original post by datpiff)
People have every right to complain. We don't do enough complaining in the UK. We don't demand excellent customer service. We just 'put up and shut up'.

When I board a train I expect to be treat like a customer and not like some sort of insignificant scum. I pay enough. I want smiles, clean trains, no rudeness... it isn't rocket science. People pay enough fares. Britain doesn't need anymore increases in fares.

In my experience I believe this what people want from a rail service:
1) regular trains that are on time
2) Train travel that is great value for money for regular travel (none of that buy online 'day tripper' nonsense)
3) Clean trains that are fit for purpose (no pacers).
4) A seat.

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So you mean to say you want us to improve the rail network without making any investment in it (or at least decreasing the investment)? How do you intend to do this Einstein?
As for the rest, while it's dependent on line and how you define "great value for money", your criteria are pretty much met already.

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Катя

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(Original post by Sulpha)
Yes people pay huge taxes in Sweden but they get a lot back from the government as a result in terms of excellent healthcare (the NHS is **** by comparison), housing, free education up to University level, maternity leave (both men and women get a year off) etc. On top of this everything is new, modern, efficient, on time etc.

In the UK however, we are forever paying increasing taxes but subsidisation for everything is being cut, the NHS is being destroyed, every road has got a billion holes in it and the cost of everything just keeps rising.

Thank you. Exactly what I wanted to say.

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datpiff

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#38

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#38

(Original post by Jammy Duel)
So you mean to say you want us to improve the rail network without making any investment in it (or at least decreasing the investment)? How do you intend to do this Einstein?
As for the rest, while it's dependent on line and how you define "great value for money", your criteria are pretty much met already.

I don't find paying over £10 to travel on some rotten banger made in the early 80s (that were considered crap before they even made it onto the tracks) that travels slower than someone's grandma browsing in an antique shop to be great value for money.

On top of that there's a new added peak time period during weekdays to travel on some rotten banger made in the early 80s (that were considered crap before they even made it onto the tracks) that travels slower than someone's grandma browsing in an antique shop.

When I get cash I'm getting a motorbike. I'd rather risk death than use this country's awful and overpriced trains

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Jammy Duel

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#39

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#39

(Original post by datpiff)
I don't find paying over £10 to travel on some rotten banger made in the early 80s (that were considered crap before they even made it onto the tracks) that travels slower than someone's grandma browsing in an antique shop to be great value for money.

On top of that there's a new added peak time period during weekdays to travel on some rotten banger made in the early 80s (that were considered crap before they even made it onto the tracks) that travels slower than someone's grandma browsing in an antique shop.

When I get cash I'm getting a motorbike. I'd rather risk death than use this country's awful and overpriced trains

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I guess you've never been on the mainlines then? Or for that matter most of the lines.

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Jammy Duel

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(Original post by Sulpha)
Yes people pay huge taxes in Sweden but they get a lot back from the government as a result in terms of excellent healthcare (the NHS is **** by comparison), housing, free education up to University level, maternity leave (both men and women get a year off) etc. On top of this everything is new, modern, efficient, on time etc.

So you mean they pay more and get more?! shock horror

In the UK however, we are forever paying increasing taxes but subsidisation for everything is being cut, the NHS is being destroyed, every road has got a billion holes in it and the cost of everything just keeps rising.

Especially on the first part, what alternative reality are you living in? Or is your definition of "increasing" the same as "decreasing" for everybody else?

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