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**** it! I am going to defend Islam! watch

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    I have a problem when Christains look down their noses at Muslims when Christian extremists have shed far more blood and caused far more damage. Personally I don't believe in any religion but I just hate that hypocrisy.

    And you cant say that Christianity has moved beyond all that because Christian terrorists still exist (just fewer people and less organised) and Christianity has had more time to 'evolve' so to speak.
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    (Original post by xylas)
    Not sure about foul things in Islam but what do you suppose is a moral life with a love of God? Also what God what that be and how would you know about Him?
    You can not deny that some aspects of Islam promote horrible things, murder, racism, sexism. I simply suggest a life that is not within the constraints of flawed religions, which we try to live as peacefully as possible.
    Why does my God have to be defined by someone/something else? And as humans, non of us can ever really know God. Religions are historically nothing but monopolies that want power, and have very little to do with spirituality.
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    (Original post by Dani California)
    You can not deny that some aspects of Islam promote horrible things, murder, racism, sexism.

    I simply suggest a life that is not within the constraints of flawed religions, which we try to live as peacefully as possible.

    Why does my God have to be defined by someone/something else? And as humans, non of us can ever really know God. Religions are historically nothing but monopolies that want power, and have very little to do with spirituality.
    Yes you are correct it is affiliated with these horrible things. Whether these were ever intended is another matter. A lot of people argue that it's not a perfect religion just the best religion.

    The problem with an individual way of life is that it is just that. Individual. I don't need to know about it and you won't be able to convince me I should follow it. Your claim which I underlined kinda sticks out like a sore thumb. What are your reasons for this? Suppose I agree with this because there is no one God, is that what you meant?
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    How can they not be intended? It was no accident that they were written down for others to follow?
    Just for the record i'm not trying to change your beliefs, even though I disagree with them. I'm just looking for an insight into your justification for them.
    Why do you find the idea of individual spirituality a problem? I don't understand your point there.
    And no, we can not understand God because it isn't the same as us. If it was, it would be human. It is an ideal that we aim to achieve.
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    (Original post by RFUR1)
    My knowledge of Islam is very little and I am happy to admit that. I have not read Qur'an but I have read the entire Bible. Muslims believe in the Old Testament so I have a basic knowledge of some of the things Muslim believe in. The only problem is the Bible has been changed whereas the Qur'an has not been altered as much as the Bible has?
    I think you are incorrect on two counts here.

    Muslims do not believe in the whole of the Old Testament.

    'Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel [Injil] (which are) with them'. S. 7:157

    Secondly the bible has not been changed. The message it contains is virtually totally as accurate as from the day it was written. Please familiarise yourself with the dead sea scrolls and other such like historical documents that confirm this.

    https://bible.org/article/how-accurate-bible
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    That sounds interesting.

    1) Mohammed is a murderous, warmongering paedophile.

    2) Islam calls for the killing of apostates and adulterers.

    3) Islam is homophobic.

    4) Islam has incited more hatred in the last 20 years than any religion.

    5) Islam and freedom of speech are incompatible.

    6) Islam, whilst inherently intolerant, demands absolute tolerance.

    7) Most Muslim majority countries rank near the bottom of country rankings on gender equality and freedom of the press.

    8) Islam means submission, it is inherently oppressive. Islam is a faith with no basis in fact, it is inherently anti-intellectual.

    Now, defend Islam.
    1) Did Muhammad kill innocent people? I am pretty sure he didn't. I thought he only killed enemies of God, people who would stop him spreading God's message.

    Isn't morality relative to an individual's culture? Don't different cultures have different standards of morality? How can you criticize the standards of others based on your own personal ethical system?

    2) Doesn't Christianity and Judaism also call for adulterers to be murdered? I am pretty sure Jesus had no problem with apostles being murdered.

    3) Christianity and Judaism are also homophobic.

    4) I need some facts or statistics. That just sounds like your personal opinion, doesn't mean it is right.

    5) Your opinion again.

    6) Lots of religions can be seen to be intolerant. Since when does Islam demand absolute tolerance?

    7) Is freedom of press and gender equality influenced by Islam or by the people who run the country (government) and people who have power (extremists)? There are non- Islamic countries which are also low down on the rankings when it comes to freedom of press and gender equality.

    By the way, who 'ranks' countries on these issues? The West? Seems pretty biased to me when you consider that the West doesn't like the East.

    8) Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law. Don't Christians also submit to God and obey His law? It is your opinion that Islam is anti-intellectual and is a faith that has no basis in fact, doesn't mean it is right though.
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    (Original post by moment of truth)
    I dont follow a religion at the moment. You? What do you mean by the basics lol? 5 pillars? 6 articles of faith? Etc

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Yeah I know the five pillars and the 6 articles of faith. I am not really sure what you would consider the basics of Islam so I can't just list them.
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    (Original post by moment of truth)
    I dont follow a religion at the moment. You? What do you mean by the basics lol? 5 pillars? 6 articles of faith? Etc

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I also don't follow a particular religion. I am most likely agnostic.
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    (Original post by RFUR1)
    Yeah I know the five pillars and the 6 articles of faith. I am not really sure what you would consider the basics of Islam so I can't just list them.
    Yeah thats fine, thanks.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    I think you are incorrect on two counts here.

    Muslims do not believe in the whole of the Old Testament.

    'Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel [Injil] (which are) with them'. S. 7:157

    Secondly the bible has not been changed. The message it contains is virtually totally as accurate as from the day it was written. Please familiarise yourself with the dead sea scrolls and other such like historical documents that confirm this.

    https://bible.org/article/how-accurate-bible
    I am presuming you are a Christian?

    I probably should have been more specific. I know Muslims don't believe in the entire Old Testament however they are both Abrahamic religions with similarities such as there is only one God, God is the Creator and Sustainer of the universe, God sent prophets such as Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Joseph, John the Baptist, Jesus, etc, people should follow the Ten Commandments and the moral teachings of the prophets, Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a virgin; therefore Jesus was born miraculously, Jesus Christ is the Messiah and he performed miracles, the Old testament/Torah and the new testament/Gospel) are holy scriptures, Satan is evil; therefore, people should not follow Satan, an Anti-Christ will appear on Earth before the Day of Judgment, Jesus Christ will return by descending from Heaven and will kill the Anti-Christ etc. There are also a lot of differences as you say.

    Thanks for the second point. I could be wrong there. I am going to read your link in more detail later.
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    (Original post by alapa)
    I have a problem when Christains look down their noses at Muslims when Christian extremists have shed far more blood and caused far more damage. Personally I don't believe in any religion but I just hate that hypocrisy.

    And you cant say that Christianity has moved beyond all that because Christian terrorists still exist (just fewer people and less organised) and Christianity has had more time to 'evolve' so to speak.
    Good point. There seems to be a lot of hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to some people and their views on Islam and issues relating to Islam.
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    (Original post by RFUR1)
    I am presuming you are a Christian?

    I probably should have been more specific. I know Muslims don't believe in the entire Old Testament however they are both Abrahamic religions with similarities such as there is only one God, God is the Creator and Sustainer of the universe, God sent prophets such as Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Joseph, John the Baptist, Jesus, etc, people should follow the Ten Commandments and the moral teachings of the prophets, Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a virgin; therefore Jesus was born miraculously, Jesus Christ is the Messiah and he performed miracles, the Old testament/Torah and the new testament/Gospel) are holy scriptures, Satan is evil; therefore, people should not follow Satan, an Anti-Christ will appear on Earth before the Day of Judgment, Jesus Christ will return by descending from Heaven and will kill the Anti-Christ etc. There are also a lot of differences as you say.

    Thanks for the second point. I could be wrong there. I am going to read your link in more detail later.
    Thank you, I hope you find the link of interest.
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    (Original post by alapa)
    I have a problem when Christains look down their noses at Muslims when Christian extremists have shed far more blood and caused far more damage. Personally I don't believe in any religion but I just hate that hypocrisy.

    And you cant say that Christianity has moved beyond all that because Christian terrorists still exist (just fewer people and less organised) and Christianity has had more time to 'evolve' so to speak.
    I think it is wrong for you to say Christians look down their noses at Muslims, of course they don't.

    The most important thing is to look at the difference in the lives of Jesus and Mohammed in comparison.

    Jesus was a a man ahead of his times, a peace maker, he never killed and he never retaliated by causing anyone harm if they did anything against him. He said 'bless those who persecute you'. He was compassionate, cared for the outcasts of society like the tax collectors, prostitutes, adulterers. He said the greatest commandment is to love one another, as he loved us. I think you would be hard pressed to find a fault in him.

    Heaven is a place of restoration and eternal peace, living in the presence of God.

    A person who is a Christian must follow Jesus teachings to be faithful. If someone, or a group of people call themselves Christians and do not live according to how Jesus lived then it would be illogical to call themselves Christ followers or Christians.

    Anyone can call themselves anything they wish, it doesn't mean they are it.
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    (Original post by RFUR1)
    As the title states I am up for any debates, arguments, confrontations etc, about Islam and anything relating to Islam.

    You can say anything you want, ask me anything you want, tell me anything you want and I reply to you and defend Islam (if and when it needs to be).This entire Islam debate (including all of the threads, posts and opinions about Islam and things relating to Islam) on the TSR seems to be very unbalanced. I am here to offer a different perspective on Islam and on any issues relating to Islam to try and make this (big) Muslim debate (which never seems to end) more balanced.

    I am not a Muslim!
    23.2% of the world's population is Muslim. Globally, 66% of all terrorist attacks are committed by just 4 extremist Islamic groups.

    Why do you think that is? Is it something to do with their religion that they all share or it is just a coincidence?
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    23.2% of the world's population is Muslim. Globally, 66% of all terrorist attacks are committed by just 4 extremist Islamic groups.

    Why do you think that is? Is it something to do with their religion that they all share or it is just a coincidence?
    I think it is something to do with their religion. At this moment in time the West seems to have a problem with many of the Middle Eastern countries and Islam in particular. I think that the West (in particular America) looks for power and wants to control the world like it has always tried to do. This has been shown throughout history especially with the invading of some of these Middle Eastern countries under false pretences. However when the West has tried to invade some of these countries, what the US and/or the West didn't bank on and hasn't banked on was/is the extreme level of resistance they have faced. Some of these Middle Eastern countries, groups and people won't back down and allow the West and/or America to achieve their goal of world domination (which America and/or the West wants for economical, environmental or social reasons).

    And that is all down to Islam. Islam is the biggest threat to America and/or the West. It is the second biggest religion in the world and the fastest growing religion, if I am correct. It is strong, it unifies people, gives people hope (even when the odds are stacked against them), people are willing to die in the name of this religion and that is a problem, America and/or West cannot achieve world domination when it cannot 'control' the Middle East and get its people to conform.

    By the way, who says what is and what isn't a terrorist attack? I bet those statistics don't include our terrorists attacks?

    'Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts that are intended to create fear (terror); are perpetrated for a religious, political, or ideological goal; and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (e.g. neutral military personnel or civilians).'

    So what about all of our (America, Britain and the West) terrorist attacks? Are they accounted for in those statistics? Probably not.
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    (Original post by RFUR1)
    By the way, who says what is and what isn't a terrorist attack? I bet those statistics don't include our terrorists attacks?
    That would be the Institute for Economics and Peace who has created the Global Terrorism Index.

    http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...?commentpage=1

    (Original post by RFUR1)
    'Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts that are intended to create fear (terror); are perpetrated for a religious, political, or ideological goal; and deliberately target or disregard the safety of*non-combatants*(e.g.,*neutral*milita ry personnel*or civilians).'
    All western militaries try to reduce civilian casualties as much as they possibly can. They do this by sending troops in on the ground who can individually kill targets without harming civilians and by gaining intel before starting an operation. If this was not the case you would see the west just carpet bombing entire cities to deal with the problem.

    (Original post by RFUR1)
    So what about all of our (America, Britain and the West) terrorist attacks? Are they accounted for in those statistics? Probably not.
    Of course they aren't as they do not fit the definition of terrorism as shown above.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    That would be the Institute for Economics and Peace who has created the Global Terrorism Index.

    http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...?commentpage=1



    All western militaries try to reduce civilian casualties as much as they possibly can. They do this by sending troops in on the ground who can individually kill targets without harming civilians and by gaining intel before starting an operation. If this was not the case you would see the west just carpet bombing entire cities to deal with the problem.

    Of course they aren't as they do not fit the definition of terrorism as shown above.
    How do you know this? Many innocent civilians (including women and child) have been killed due to the recklessness of our armed forces. Some of our soldiers have even shown a blatant lack of respect for the civilians in these countries. The West can't just carpet bomb entire cities even if we wanted to. It's just not permitted.

    What definition of terrorism? This is a brief definition of terrorism 'violent acts that are intended to create fear (terror); are perpetrated for a religious, political, or ideological goal; and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (e.g., neutral military personnel or civilians)'. So we too have committed acts of terrorism. The West (America, Britain etc) have had a general disregard for the safety of civilians when we have invaded countries in the Middle East. I would say we have also carried out violent acts for a religious, political or ideological goal while looking to create fear in the Middle East.
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    Salaam from a TSR Islamic society member. :cool:
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    That sounds interesting.

    Mohammed is a murderous, warmongering paedophile.

    Islam calls for the killing of apostates and adulterers.

    Islam is homophobic.

    Islam has incited more hatred in the last 20 years than any religion.

    Islam and freedom of speech are incompatible.

    Islam, whilst inherently intolerant, demands absolute tolerance.

    Most Muslim majority countries rank near the bottom of country rankings on gender equality and freedom of the press.

    Islam means submission, it is inherently oppressive. Islam is a faith with no basis in fact, it is inherently anti-intellectual.

    Now, defend Islam.
    You forgot how Islam treats Women - Like slaves.
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    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    Why does Islam have such a huge violence issue? Every other major religion/culture has almost totally moved away from such barbaric acts, why is it that Islam cannot do the same?
    People have a misconception of Islam, the word itself means peace and Jihad is another misunderstood term, you're taking your knowledge from the media, honestly you can read the English translation of the Qur'an and understand it for yourself
 
 
 
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