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Where can I find information on how to create an app? watch

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    What you should do is totally forget about making any money from running a software development business until you have years of experience in software development. For two reasons:

    1) You won't get investment.
    2) Even if you do, you will fail (hence 1).

    Running a tech startup is hard even when you know what you're doing. The brightest brains in the industry consistently fail at it.

    You would be better off forgetting about money in the short term. Start by answering the following question:

    Are you interested in making software for software's sake?

    If "yes," go ahead and learn. Maybe in a couple of years' time you will find that you have the skill and the desire to start thinking about making some money from the endeavour. If you answered "no," then just drop it and move on.

    An idea on its own is not worth anything and - unless you already have insight into software development - your idea is likely not well-developed or feasible enough to be pursued anyway. I have an idea for a car that turns into a submarine but I'm not an automotive engineer so I know that I can't bring it to fruition and I stop thinking about it.

    Apologies if this all sounds blunt but it is the truth of the matter - good software is hard to produce and the industry is hard to breach even when you're experienced. But the one place that the software industry is no different to any other is this: unless you have a great deal of experience within it you're not going to be able to monetize an idea.
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    (Original post by samba)
    There are no/few experts here.
    Not strictly true. Plenty of software professionals lurking in these parts.
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    (Original post by Planto)
    Not strictly true. Plenty of software professionals lurking in these parts.
    She needs a business solution not a developer though. How many of those software professionals have experience running teams and scalable enterprise projects? I'd suspect we're all too young to give proper guidance on it.

    (Original post by Planto)
    1) You won't get investment.
    2) Even if you do, you will fail (hence 1).
    For a tinder type app, if the algorithm is superior to those currently available. You could likely get investment. It's a big market. If it failed, at least it could be swallowed up later for the algorithm.

    Running a tech startup is hard even when you know what you're doing. The brightest brains in the industry consistently fail at it.
    Those guys had no ideas... Nothing new to bring to the game. Again, you're thinking from a dev perspective, not a business one.

    Apologies if this all sounds blunt but it is the truth of the matter - good software is hard to produce and the industry is hard to breach even when you're experienced. But the one place that the software industry is no different to any other is this: unless you have a great deal of experience within it you're not going to be able to monetize an idea.
    Software is just a function of a business, a way to implement an overarching strategy. If the business is just 'oh look I made a better notepad omg' ofc it's going to be hard.
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    (Original post by samba)
    How many of those software professionals have experience running teams and scalable enterprise projects?
    Hello.

    For a tinder type app, if the algorithm is superior to those currently available. You could likely get investment. It's a big market. If it failed, at least it could be swallowed up later for the algorithm.
    She has no software experience. There is no algorithm. Even if there were, investors are interested in business strategies and the experience of the people they're investing in, not algorithms (except in the movies).

    That's before we touch on the fact that clever algorithms - while great to market to the layman ("our super clever smart algorithms by magic scientists...") - are not the reality of dating applications (nor do they need to be). They are based on crude nearest-neighbour graph traversals and string searches.

    Nobody in a position to invest is interested in your clever algorithm. They're interested in the feasibility of your business and whether or not you have the necessary skills and experience to make it happen. This is why the software that is clever is either produced by existing, self-sufficient businesses or is open-sourced, unprofitable and came out of someone's bedroom.

    Those guys had no ideas... Nothing new to bring to the game. Again, you're thinking from a dev perspective, not a business one.
    Not true. The whole article is about the nature of the business and investment. The insight of that article has been praised by a number of high-profile software entrepreneurs and it is just one summation of a very common experience in starting a software business.

    Most tech startups fold quickly and most tech startups are started by very bright people with a lot of experience in the industry. Those that do succeed are invariably started by experienced developers.

    Again, getting investment is not about being novel or having a bright idea (although even if it was, having a feasible bright idea still requires a great depth of insight into the subject matter, i.e. software), it is about knowing the industry well enough to identify and successfully fill the gap in the market, just like any other industry.

    Software is just a function of a business, a way to implement an overarching strategy.
    When you're the consumer of the software, yes. When the software is your business, it's not just a tool/implementation detail for completing a task. Much like when you're building trucks for a living, a truck isn't just a thing that helps you ship your parts.
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    (Original post by Planto)
    Hello.
    Hello, do your team do special TSR rates?


    (Original post by Planto)
    Hello.



    She has no software experience. There is no algorithm. Even if there were, investors are interested in business strategies and the experience of the people they're investing in, not algorithms (except in the movies).

    That's before we touch on the fact that clever algorithms - while great to market to the layman ("our super clever smart algorithms by magic scientists...") - are not the reality of dating applications (nor do they need to be). They are based on crude nearest-neighbour graph traversals and string searches.

    Nobody in a position to invest is interested in your clever algorithm. They're interested in the feasibility of your business and whether or not you have the necessary skills and experience to make it happen. This is why the software that is clever is either produced by existing, self-sufficient businesses or is open-sourced, unprofitable and came out of someone's bedroom.
    You don't need to be a software expert to run a dating company though. You need to have a clear vision, experience in your management team, and something unique. I disagree with the notion that no superior algorithm to string searches could possibly exist too, but that's probably outside the scope of this. Psychologists and stuff have developed experiments showing compatibility based on a load of stuff that's not currently incorporated into any dating apps.

    Not true. The whole article is about the nature of the business and investment. The insight of that article has been praised by a number of high-profile software entrepreneurs and it is just one summation of a very common experience in starting a software business.

    Most tech startups fold quickly and most tech startups are started by very bright people with a lot of experience in the industry.

    Again, getting investment is not about being novel or having a bright idea (although even if it was, having a feasible bright idea still requires a great depth of insight into the subject matter, i.e. software), it is about knowing the industry well enough to identify and successfully fill the gap in the market, just like any other industry.

    I'm not thinking from a dev perspective - you are the only one of the two of us to have mentioned algorithms or implementation.
    http://michalsobel.com/data/_img/blo...-900px-6-e.png Look at the 'ideas' - None are remotely novel. And the next one was copying a US crowdsharing site for europe... I only skimmed it, but nothing jumped out as 'great idea' - More 'we're so smart we can do this better' - None focused on advertising or generating customers, only on development.

    When you're the consumer of the software, yes. When the software is your business, it's not just a tool/implementation detail.
    Would you not say a dating company is a consumer of the app? The ideas exist independent of the app, and no superior software is going to break it into the market- the software for this stuff is all fairly generic anyway.
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    (Original post by samba)
    You don't need to be a software expert to run a dating company though. You need to have a clear vision, experience in your management team, and something unique.
    We're not talking about a dating company, though, we're talking about a dating app - that's a software project for a software company. If we were talking about building back-office systems or websites for a physical dating agency, the questions would be very different (and the smart thing to do would be to outsource your software as and when you need it and get on with planning the rest of your business).

    If the OP's business was a dating agency then it would make more sense to let a company with experience designing and delivering software to... design and deliver the dating app. But she's talking about developing software, not starting a dating company.

    I disagree with the notion that no superior algorithm to string searches could possibly exist too, but that's probably outside the scope of this. Psychologists and stuff have developed experiments showing compatibility based on a load of stuff that's not currently incorporated into any dating apps.
    Again, it's not about whether such an algorithm could exist, it is about whether it is relevant. Profitability-wise? Definitely not. For a dating app (from an implementation perspective), you need a crude search algorithm, a solid feature set and good UX. Even if you have the cleverest algorithm on the market, that's not what will bring the users in; they don't know any different and there will be no tangible difference for them to speak of when they start using your app. Your investors will know that. Innovation is expensive and in cases like this there's no real commercial benefit.

    If I was thinking like a dev, I would agree with you - a developer wants to solve the problem effectively regardless of the business implications - but finding the optimal solution isn't really the game in dating applications, generating users is and the potential impact on the user base of turning an off-the-shelf search algorithm into a state-of-the-art minimal-error match-finding algorithm is negligible when compared with, for example, breaking into a new geographic market.

    Still, I suspect that we are talking about an imaginary algorithm. The OP will not have come up with one.

    http://michalsobel.com/data/_img/blo...-900px-6-e.png Look at the 'ideas' - None are remotely novel. And the next one was copying a US crowdsharing site for europe... I only skimmed it, but nothing jumped out as 'great idea' - More 'we're so smart we can do this better' - None focused on advertising or generating customers, only on development.
    The focus is on achieving investment, gaining market exposure and traction and completing the project, which is where the challenges lie. The idea is not the difficult part and novelty is not what leads to success (in many cases it can actively inhibit it, which, if you read the article, is also in there).

    The intention of linking to the post was really an illustration/elaboration to the OP of what the tech startup world is like, how turning an idea into a functioning piece of software is not a trivial matter and how even people with a great deal of experience struggle to stay afloat in the market and complete a project, not as evidence or citation of what I'm saying.

    Would you not say a dating company is a consumer of the app? The ideas exist independent of the app, and no superior software is going to break it into the market- the software for this stuff is all fairly generic anyway.
    Again, there's a big difference between a dating agency and a company that develops a dating app. The latter is what we're talking about. The software is the product.

    As for it being fairly generic - that's exactly what I'm talking about w.r.t. the relevance of a clever algorithm. It's not novelty or ingenuity that will drive investors - those things are scary and expensive and generally speaking not a necessary part of generating a ROI - it's isolation of a market and the experience to deliver.
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    To be able to create an App yourself, I believe it's best to learn a relevant programming language (at least to a basic level) so you're not routing around the internet for answer's to your simple problems. Also an advantage of this is that you actually start to learn as you go along, this is so much better than just watching YouTube tutorials.
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    (Original post by Planto)
    What you should do is totally forget about making any money from running a software development business until you have years of experience in software development. For two reasons:

    1) You won't get investment.
    2) Even if you do, you will fail (hence 1).

    Running a tech startup is hard even when you know what you're doing. The brightest brains in the industry consistently fail at it.

    You would be better off forgetting about money in the short term. Start by answering the following question:

    Are you interested in making software for software's sake?

    If "yes," go ahead and learn. Maybe in a couple of years' time you will find that you have the skill and the desire to start thinking about making some money from the endeavour. If you answered "no," then just drop it and move on.

    An idea on its own is not worth anything and - unless you already have insight into software development - your idea is likely not well-developed or feasible enough to be pursued anyway. I have an idea for a car that turns into a submarine but I'm not an automotive engineer so I know that I can't bring it to fruition and I stop thinking about it.

    Apologies if this all sounds blunt but it is the truth of the matter - good software is hard to produce and the industry is hard to breach even when you're experienced. But the one place that the software industry is no different to any other is this: unless you have a great deal of experience within it you're not going to be able to monetize an idea.
    I do not recall when I said I was interested in starting a software development company. In fact, very far from it.

    The reason I came on this thread is because I have conceived an idea that I want to bring to life, in as much as the East European guys who started whatsapp came up with an idea and brought it to life. The same way the girl who started grindr brought her idea to life.

    I would like to learn how to develop the app for the sake of actually knowing how it will work and it's generally a good idea for one to know their product. In as much Marissa Mayer sets an example of knowing the code behind their products at yahoo.

    If anything I'll probably be seeking venture capital to make this happen, because I have the challenge of not knowing how to market this idea to bring it to the consumer.

    As informed people on this forum have so far highlighted, it will be pointless developing the app and not having the capital to market and manage it. So many things to consider and the development is a small aspect of it, a skill which I can outsource.

    I had a conversation about this with my work colleague who happens to be a developer and he pretty much highlighted the same thing. There was loads more that came before facebook, e.g. Hi5, my space and bebo but only facebook was a success. Similarly for whatsapp, we have viber and others but there's one clear winner. The formula to making an app that will be popular with consumer is complex. Developing an app is only a start, loads of hurdles from that point forward.

    No need to apologise, I know there are challenges and I can tell that your views are generally one dimensional, coming from someone with a a developer tech head on. I'm trying to draw as a much knowledge as I can from various aspects, tech, commercial, e.t.c.

    Mark Z wouldn't not be the CEO of Facebook if:

    1. He had not stolen the concept from the brothers
    2. Did not have that initial capital from his friend Eduardo, who he sadly betrayed
    3. Did not have the later financial backing and marketing expertise that brought facebook into the forefront.

    Essentially, it takes more than a developer to have a successful app.
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    (Original post by samba)
    She needs a business solution not a developer though. How many of those software professionals have experience running teams and scalable enterprise projects? I'd suspect we're all too young to give proper guidance on it.



    For a tinder type app, if the algorithm is superior to those currently available. You could likely get investment. It's a big market. If it failed, at least it could be swallowed up later for the algorithm.



    Those guys had no ideas... Nothing new to bring to the game. Again, you're thinking from a dev perspective, not a business one.



    Software is just a function of a business, a way to implement an overarching strategy. If the business is just 'oh look I made a better notepad omg' ofc it's going to be hard.
    Nice summation.
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    (Original post by Slim and proud)
    I do not recall when I said I was interested in starting a software development company. In fact, very far from it.

    The reason I came on this thread is because I have conceived an idea that I want to bring to life, in as much as the East European guys who started whatsapp came up with an idea and brought it to life. The same way the girl who started grindr brought her idea to life.

    I would like to learn how to develop the app for the sake of actually knowing how it will work and it's generally a good idea for one to know their product. In as much Marissa Mayer sets an example of knowing the code behind their products at yahoo.

    If anything I'll probably be seeking venture capital to make this happen, because I have the challenge of not knowing how to market this idea to bring it to the consumer.

    As informed people on this forum have so far highlighted, it will be pointless developing the app and not having the capital to market and manage it. So many things to consider and the development is a small aspect of it, a skill which I can outsource.

    I had a conversation about this with my work colleague who happens to be a developer and he pretty much highlighted the same thing. There was loads more that came before facebook, e.g. Hi5, my space and bebo but only facebook was a success. Similarly for whatsapp, we have viber and others but there's one clear winner. The formula to making an app that will be popular with consumer is complex. Developing an app is only a start, loads of hurdles from that point forward.

    No need to apologise, I know there are challenges and I can tell that your views are generally one dimensional, coming from someone with a a developer tech head on. I'm trying to draw as a much knowledge as I can from various aspects, tech, commercial, e.t.c.

    Mark Z wouldn't not be the CEO of Facebook if:

    1. He had not stolen the concept from the brothers
    2. Did not have that initial capital from his friend Eduardo, who he sadly betrayed
    3. Did not have the later financial backing and marketing expertise that brought facebook into the forefront.

    Essentially, it takes more than a developer to have a successful app.
    Not sure using developer Mark Z as an example is the best way to make your point. If all you have to contribute is an idea then you will need deep pockets.
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    (Original post by INTit)
    If all you have to contribute is an idea then you will need deep pockets.
    You would do well to first of all ask yourself why I'm making this thread.
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    (Original post by Slim and proud)
    You would do well to first of all ask yourself why I'm making this thread.
    I wouldn't want to make that assumption theirs a million dev forums full of people with "brilliant ideas" that just need a couple of devs and artists to work for nothing untill they make a fortune.
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    (Original post by INTit)
    I wouldn't want to make that assumption theirs a million dev forums full of people with "brilliant ideas" that just need a couple of devs and artists to work for nothing untill they make a fortune.
    I wouldn't want to make that assumption. theirs There are a million dev forums full of people with "brilliant ideas" that just need a couple of dev developers and artists to work for nothing untill until they make a fortune.

    Sorry, I just had to make those corrections.

    I guess there's a reason why developers and technology architects aren't aways in the Operating committees and Executive teams of technology firms.
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    (Original post by Slim and proud)
    Essentially, it takes more than a developer to have a successful app.
    I never said anything about having to be a developer - I said you will need to know the industry to succeed.

    Interestingly enough, though, all of the people you list had prior software engineering experience (except for the ones you made up - Grindr was created by a software house). So I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to counter there.

    Successful tech startups (whether you want to call it a company or a one-off app, you are talking about a business venture) are almost always founded by technically-minded people - usually software engineers - who have quite a lot of experience in the industry.

    But I'm sure you know better than I do. With all your experience and insight. The first question a VC is going to ask you is "what is your background in this industry?" You might find it's also the last.

    When I posted my initial comment, I thought you would actually have the sense to take it seriously; if you want to make software, you have to make it for no monetary reward until you are proficient enough in making software (as a developer or not) that you can consider trying to make money from it. You have to make software because you want to make software.

    But it sounds like you are just as ignorant as every other would-be Zuckerberg with no ounce of knowledge of the industry in which they plan to make their millions.
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    (Original post by Planto)
    I never said anything about having to be a developer - I said you will need to know the industry to succeed.

    Interestingly enough, though, all of the people you list had prior software engineering experience (except for the ones you made up - Grindr was created by a software house). So I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to counter there.
    Created by a software house but conceptualised by a bisexual girl. When you read in the papers she's the success story behind the app, the girl who has made her money. In mainstream papers you don't hear much mention of the software company, perhaps only in your techy magazines.

    Secondly, if I'm going to outsource creation of an app, what exactly is your point there? I really don't get it.

    Successful tech startups (whether you want to call it a company or a one-off app, you are talking about a business venture) are almost always founded by technically-minded people - usually software engineers - who have quite a lot of experience in the industry.
    Fortunately there is exception to your rule.

    But I'm sure you know better than I do. With all your experience and insight.
    And I'm not sure how much you know beyond your technical expertise to be be honest.
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    (Original post by Slim and proud)
    Created by a software house but conceptualised by a bisexual girl, round about my age and when you read in the papers she's the success story behind the app, the girl who has made her money. In mainstream papers you read more about this girl, you don't hear much mention of the software company, perhaps only in your techy magazines.
    This person does not exist as far as I can see. But whatever.

    Secondly, if I'm going to outsource creation of an app, what exactly is your point there? I really don't get it.
    My point is that the people who make a success of launching software ideas are implementors. If you're not an implementor, then you're at a real disadvantage. But disadvantages can be overcome, so let's roll with it - if you're not an implementor, then you're presumably the businessman. But you don't have any industry experience. So... you're just another punter with another "idea" (although, "hey, wouldn't it be cool if..." doesn't really constitute a well-formed idea) and no experience in turning ideas into software projects and software projects into delivery.

    Like every other industry, an idea alone won't get you anywhere. You need to know the industry.

    And I'm not sure how much you know beyond your technical expertise to be be honest.
    Enough. But I'm not interested in selling my experience to you. Pay attention or don't.

    Anyway, you are certainly self-assured. I would still recommend developing some degree of experience in the industry, even if not as a developer. It is a tough market to breach even for the people who know the industry the best. Whatever you do, good luck to you.
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    (Original post by Slim and proud)
    Okay, thanks.

    I just just wonder whether it's possible to get venture capital with no proof of concept or existing revenue that's been generated by idea.

    Secondly, would it be possible to patent idea first before asking for investment? Is that what people tend to do?

    depends if you have the ten grand plus, it would cost to patent it...? and if it was patentable...

    patents also take years and years before they are granted too...
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    (Original post by Slim and proud)
    Oh thanks for the tip!

    I want to develop it on both iOS and Android.

    I want to make a dating app like tinder.

    Which resources would you recommend I start reading? I went to the library and I couldn't find any books on making apps.

    I'm hoping I should be able to learn as I generally enjoy learning syntax languages, even though I lose attention. I will try and persist with this one though.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Just touching on something that doesn't seem to have come up yet. Apps like the one you want to create will also need a server backend part for databases which would hold information about its users.

    You should probably use PHP and MySQL for this and I would recommend using XAMP whilst in development so you don't have to invest in webspace or a server. If/when you move it into production you should make sure whichever hosting company you go for includes MySQL databases in their package.

    In short tbh you would be better dropping the idea of an app or at least shelving it for now and instead make a web-based solution then make an app.

    Oh and I agree with Planto.
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    (Original post by JonnyXDA)
    Just touching on something that doesn't seem to have come up yet. Apps like the one you want to create will also need a server backend part for databases which would hold information about its users.

    You should probably use PHP and MySQL for this and I would recommend using XAMP whilst in development so you don't have to invest in webspace or a server. If/when you move it into production you should make sure whichever hosting company you go for includes MySQL databases in their package.

    In short tbh you would be better dropping the idea of an app or at least shelving it for now and instead make a web-based solution then make an app.

    Oh and I agree with Planto.
    i get your point about the servers, I develop assessment and selection tests for a leading psychometric test provider so work closely with technology teams who develop the software to implement the tests. Our databases hold client and candidate data, the systems certainly aren't for the faint hearted.

    I'm really keen to get this idea off the ground, so will do what ever it takes to source the resources. It's looking like I'll really have to get venture capital for this.

    To be honest, I came on this thread to seek some information about developing this idea because I want to prove the concept to myself before taking it out to the wider world, even if it means learning and implementing it myself to start with. I never at any point suggested or marketed myself as some amazing developer who has an idea that's set to take over the world. If I fail then I'd rather fail at least having tried.

    I don't appreciate attitudes like that planto dude. Advise that's offered gracefully is always well received, I haven't found any of his advice helpful and it's repeating stuff that's been said by other people, except saying it in a rather silly way. Signs of a person who might have technical know but lacks the people skills. People with technical skills and a chip on the shoulder don't tend to make it to the senior management ranks and sometimes even struggle at junior management level, I say this as someone who has worked in the commercial world for a while. I worked for an implementation team as a means to an end, before I got my role in psychometric R&D. My manager at that time was such a ****, with a chip on his shoulder. He only got into that role because he was a walking database with the technical know how, though really lacking in people skills. Fortunately he was shifted to his own little silo and replaced by someone who could communicate better.
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    (Original post by Slim and proud)
    I don't appreciate attitudes like that planto dude. Advise that's offered gracefully is always well received, I haven't found any of his advice helpful and it's repeating stuff that's been said by other people...
    I actually think I was rather graceful about the way I put things (and I was being genuine, not passive-aggressive, in my suggestion to get experience in the field first and forget about money for the foreseeable future) until you immediately responded in a hostile, self-important and rather ignorant manner.

    Maybe you have heard what I was saying before (and maybe there's a reason for that), but your OP didn't exactly pitch you as a well-researched, intuitive entrepreneur - a cut above all of the other clueless 10-years-too-late-web-2.0-bandwagoners - looking for the final pieces of the puzzle. Let's remind ourselves of it:

    How does one go about creating an app? Is it difficult? I want to create a dating app.
    Insightful stuff. Continued with:

    I'm hoping I should be able to learn as I generally enjoy learning syntax languages, even though I lose attention
    Huh, sounds like you were actually talking about learning how to implement the app yourself. This is back when you were being sensible and realistic and acknowledging your inexperience; before you suddenly became a well-informed software/business professional the minute someone questioned whether starting out in software with the immediate intention of making a profit was a worthwhile endeavour.

    You don't need to concern yourself with my potential - I'm doing okay. No chips on my shoulders. The "repressed and angry in-house software dev" is a bit of an old-fashioned pastiche.
 
 
 
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