Turn on thread page Beta

Why is their so much unfair cynicism toward Farage & UKIP voters? watch

Announcements
    • Study Helper
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Study Helper
    (Original post by billydisco)
    Then how can UKIP be described as racist?

    Just updated my last post, I really dislike when people slander the party as racist. They're not. To be honest I think it's a smear campaign from the bigger parties. :dontknow:


    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    You do realise that the UK electorate were never asked about joining the EU?

    You do realise that a lot of people in the UK are unhappy about being in the EU?

    You do realise that if enough people have a political belief, if established parties don't catwr for that belief system new parties spring up?

    You do realise that ukip are the only main(ish) stream party that advocates the withdrawal from the EU.

    What on earth does any of this have to do with what I posted? Genuinely confused now. Please do not quote me again, but feel free to actually read what I posted.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    The reasons given above are mostly quite reasonable.

    But what does OP mean by "unfair", anyway? It's called an opinion and you have no place to say which opinions other people are or are not entitled to.

    Yes, there may be many opinions swayed by public opinion/media - but how exactly do you expect that to change? You can moan about it, but it's stupid to just expect the entire population to be well informed about politics. It's no different to how those same people would make judgement about any other candidate.
    • Study Helper
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Study Helper
    (Original post by lerjj)
    It could also be that I only had to look for 5 minutes to find this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOW4VUt7alQ
    As much as I hate UKIP, that presenter's an idiot. He clearly demonstrates that the people he's interviewing know nothing, but neither does he apparently since he makes his first (big) factual error a few minutes in.
    • Study Helper
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Study Helper
    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    As much as I hate UKIP, that presenter's an idiot. He clearly demonstrates that the people he's interviewing know nothing, but neither does he apparently since he makes his first (big) factual error a few minutes in.

    James O'Brien is a political animal. He's very good at picking weak opponents and ripping them apart, fantastic at sidestepping questions and holding the momentum in a debate, and at times great at rising the audience. I don't think he's an idiot, but he is a bit cruel to use UKIP supporters who clearly don't know anything about their party to play the big dog. It's quite common really to see it towards UKIP supporters, and whilst I agree with the sentiment that people who vote on publicity rather than policy are a detriment to society, it's still a bit questionable to prey on people. Unfortunate that many like O'Brien are using the run up as a chance to build a reputation as smarter than they are.
    • Study Helper
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Study Helper
    (Original post by Hal.E.Lujah)
    James O'Brien is a political animal. He's very good at picking weak opponents and ripping them apart, fantastic at sidestepping questions and holding the momentum in a debate, and at times great at rising the audience. I don't think he's an idiot, but he is a bit cruel to use UKIP supporters who clearly don't know anything about their party to play the big dog. It's quite common really to see it towards UKIP supporters, and whilst I agree with the sentiment that people who vote on publicity rather than policy are a detriment to society, it's still a bit questionable to prey on people. Unfortunate that many like O'Brien are using the run up as a chance to build a reputation as smarter than they are.
    You're completely correct that he's picking on easy targets - which is all the more of a reason why he should actually make sure he knows what he's talking about in the first place. A good example is where he talks about trade. The caller's claim that a lot of our trade agreements are not set by the UK but are done internationally is completely correct (admittedly largely by the WTO rather than the EU, but still - the claim that we're in control of our trade is not particularly accurate). Now, I'm pretty certain that the caller doesn't have a clue why this is a genuine problem and is just regurgitating something he heard someone else say, but he was nevertheless correct and it's pretty unfair that O'Brien tossed that argument aside, using something totally incorrect as an argument.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    I am not a huge fan of UKIP, but the reason is because the left shout the loudest.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    To be honest, I can completely understand why people would want to vote for them. However, to say I'm not a fan would be putting it lightly. Quite frankly I find them to be xenophobic, hypocritical, incredibly abrasive and, in effect, as slimy and manipulative as any other political party. Those photos of Nigel Farage in the pub with that smug grin on his face always manage to aggravate me.

    My grandparents are themselves UKIP supporters, and it deeply depresses me. You only have to take a look in the Mail Online comments section to see the kind of hateful drivel that their supporters come up with.
    • Wiki Support Team
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by billydisco)
    Instead of spurt **** could you elaborate on your points please?

    They spread propaganda? All they have said is that if all the citizens of Romania and Bulgaria wanted to come here- they have the right to do so. That is a fact.

    Social progress? Whats that- where hardworking people have to pay more taxes so the lazy British and leaching EU citizens can have an easy life?

    It is also possible the nuclear strike against Britain will be ordered tomorrow. I don't see you arguing for a pre-emptive strike. Let's not exchange hyperbole.

    That bs neo-classical narrative is rich coming from someone asking for elaborated points.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hal.E.Lujah)
    Oh they have a manifesto? And they've been in power and shown they're a capable party? I take my whole post back!


    Oh wait no, you just spouted some inane babble that was completely irrelevant to what I actually posted, yet again demonstrating what I was saying. Thank you for that.
    So - reading between the foaming-at-the-mouth anger and the wildly jerking knees - you're denying that UKIP has an anti-EU policy? Seriously? It's pretty much their raison d'etre.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    I don't need to say anything about UKIP. They make themselves look hateful, silly and racist.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RayApparently)
    It is also possible the nuclear strike against Britain will be ordered tomorrow. I don't see you arguing for a pre-emptive strike. Let's not exchange hyperbole.
    You believe the probability of Britain being nuked tomorrow is the same as millions of Europeans migrating to the UK?

    (Shall we pretend millions haven't already migranted here since 2004? )
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    James O'Brien genuinely compared UKIP to ISIS shortly before the Clacton by-election. He got into trouble with Ofcom for it actually.

    Worrying that the BBC see fit to make him a Newsnight presenter - he's staggeringly biased.
    • Study Helper
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Study Helper
    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    So - reading between the foaming-at-the-mouth anger and the wildly jerking knees - you're denying that UKIP has an anti-EU policy? Seriously? It's pretty much their raison d'etre.
    I don't think it's really foaming at the mouth to say I like to judge a party by it's policies to be honest. I'm happy to discuss them in another thread if you make one, but here we're discussing the issue of why UKIP supporters get looked down upon. I think I've elaborated on that sufficiently.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    People have differing opinions on whether UKIP are a racist party or not (I think they are and will not vote for them), but one thing that cannot be argued is that they seem to attract racist and xenophobic voters, members, etc.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hal.E.Lujah)
    Please link me to their manifesto.
    There isn't one - yet. I never said there was. Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems have yet to publish their manifestos either. Nobody has got round to it yet.

    You are competely incorrect, however, to assert that not having a manifesto means not having any policies. I see some daft ideas expressed on here but that's a new and particularly stupid one. I take it you also mock Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems in equal measure then, if you view the lack of an manifesto at any given point in time as evidence that a party is incompetent?

    I fail to see why what you've posted is of any actual relevance.
    Because you said that anyone who votes UKIP either doesn't understand politics or is
    making a protest vote. When a poster rightly pointed out that many people vote UKIP because of their anti-EU stance, you produced a non-response which accused them of making an irrelvant post (it wasn't).

    Either engage in debate properly or don't post at all. Repeatedly failing to address the writings of other posters and accusing them of being "irrelevant" doesn't constitute debate.
    • Study Helper
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Study Helper
    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    There isn't one - yet. I never said there was. Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems have yet to publish their manifestos either. Nobody has got round to it yet.

    You are competely incorrect, however, to assert that not having a manifesto means not having any policies. I see some daft ideas expressed on here but that's a new and particularly stupid one. I take it you also mock Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems in equal measure then, if you view the lack of an manifesto at any given point in time as evidence that a party is incompetent?

    Because you said that anyone who votes UKIP either doesn't understand politics or is
    making a protest vote. When a poster rightly pointed out that many people vote UKIP because of their anti-EU stance, you produced a non-response which accused them of making an irrelvant post (it wasn't).

    Either engage in debate properly or don't post at all. Repeatedly failing to address the writings of other posters and accusing them of being "irrelevant" doesn't constitute debate and just makes you look like a belligerent idiot.

    The poster in question spouted rather random babble. I decided it would derail the thread to start responding to it. I fully understand that there is anti EU sentiment - and that's why people are turning to a protest vote such as UKIP. But the vast majority of those supporting UKIP such as that poster are fairly well represented by that James O'Brien video linked above; completely ignorant to what they're actually voting for.


    The difference between the other parties and UKIP is that UKIP have posted a grand total of one manifestos in the past; which they've actively said was a complete trainwreck. The other parties are continuing on policies they've been employing for potentially centuries. It's a bit more important for UKIP to have some clear statements out there, but instead they've played the political chameleon to garner votes. I applaud them for that, it's a good move, but it doesn't appeal to the discerning policy based voter. There is inevitably a rift between that type of voter and those who are brought in by such a strategy. Hence the cynicism.


    I don't know why you're now frothing and calling me an idiot. There's not really much reason to insult someone because they have a different opinion to you. I maintain that UKIP doesn't actually have any issues as a political party, but they attract supporters such as yourself who give them a bad name by being toxic.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hal.E.Lujah)
    The poster in question spouted rather random babble. I decided it would derail the thread to start responding to it. I fully understand that there is anti EU sentiment - and that's why people are turning to a protest vote such as UKIP. But the vast majority of those supporting UKIP such as that poster are fairly well represented by that James O'Brien video linked above; completely ignorant to what they're actually voting for.
    It wasn't random at all - it was a direct and clear response to what you said. You've now admitted that some people do vote UKIP because they are anti-EU, which is a start.

    The difference between the other parties and UKIP is that UKIP have posted a grand total of one manifestos in the past; which they've actively said was a complete trainwreck.
    They published manifestos in 1997, 2001 and 2005 as well. The 2010 manifesto was full of bile, but then again, so was the 2010 manifesto of the allegedly much nicer and more credible Greens. UKIP have at least admitted their 2010 manifesto was a joke - the same cannot be said of the Greens who continue to parade laughable policies on their website such as banning night flights, reducing the maximum speed limit to 50mph and giving women much more favourable treatment in the justice system than men, the sort of policies that the media and the Twitterati would be all over if UKIP came out with them.

    The other parties are continuing on policies they've been employing for potentially centuries. It's a bit more important for UKIP to have some clear statements out there, but instead they've played the political chameleon to garner votes. I applaud them for that, it's a good move, but it doesn't appeal to the discerning policy based voter. There is inevitably a rift between that type of voter and those who are brought in by such a strategy. Hence the cynicism.
    None of this is true. See the Lib Dems for a party who have most certainly "played the political chameleon". See also the Tories - Cameron was desperate to be seen as the most green party leader outside the Greens themselves, only to quietly drop his "concern" for the environment when people in the main stopped caring about it.

    Furthermore to suggest that the policies of the three main parties are long standing is also ridiculous. New Labour and the marginally more lefty Miliband/Balls Labour are quite radically different to the Labour of the early 1980s.

    I don't know why you're now frothing and calling me an idiot. There's not really much reason to insult someone because they have a different opinion to you. I maintain that UKIP doesn't actually have any issues as a political party, but they attract supporters such as yourself who give them a bad name by being toxic.
    All parties have members who use hostile language towards those who disagree with them - this doesn't make a party "toxic". UKIP have a strong record when it comes to removing the idiots in their party who make daft comments. The same cannot be said of Labour, who stand by the violence-inciting Ken Livingstone and the gender-based abortions supporting Glenda Jackson.

    Furthermore, some of the comments made by Tories about UKIP border on deranged - see Boris Johnson and John Major for examples of this.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    You do realise that the UK electorate were never asked about joining the EU?

    You do realise that a lot of people in the UK are unhappy about being in the EU?

    You do realise that if enough people have a political belief, if established parties don't catwr for that belief system new parties spring up?

    You do realise that ukip are the only main(ish) stream party that advocates the withdrawal from the EU.
    No, UKIP only became popular when they switched focus from the EU to immigration.

    Polls show nobody on the street cares much about the EU.

    Still, no, UKIP are not racist. But you don't have to be racist to be evil. UKIP are quite prepared to ruin everyone's life equally, whether you're white, black, brown or yellow. As long as you're poor you're fair game for UKIP's ultra-Thatcherite medicine.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by billydisco)
    How the **** is a commodities broker a "banker"?

    Do you even know what a "banker" is?
    Oh dear, I am soo sorry about that incorrect fact. Let me correct it with a straight quote from Wikipedia:

    Farage was educated at Dulwich College, a public school in south London.[17] On leaving school in 1982, he decided not to go to university, but to work in the City, trading commodities at the London Metal Exchange.[15] Initially, he joined the American commodity brokerage firm Drexel Burnham Lambert,[17] transferring to Credit Lyonnais Rouse in 1986.[17] He joined Refco in 1994, and Natexis Metals in 2003.

    So no, he's not a banker. He's an ex-commodities broker, his father is a stockbroker he went to Dulwich college. But the important thing is that he didn't go to Oxford (because he didn't go to University at all) and so he must be all right. He must be a man of the people, because whenever you see ordinary people, they're swilling around a half-drunk pint? Literally all the time? In every photograph? For God's sake, even drunk's don't do that!

    He's a hypocrite who is abusing the electorate into voting for him: vote Dulwich not Eton! Vote commodities broker not Banker! Vote for the guy who's never been elected, because he says he's like you, even when he patently isn't! (and you'd be s**t at running he country anyway!)
    • Wiki Support Team
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by billydisco)
    You believe the probability of Britain being nuked tomorrow is the same as millions of Europeans migrating to the UK?

    (Shall we pretend millions haven't already migranted here since 2004? )
    *the entire Romanian/Bulgarian population

    Shall we pretend eastern European immigrants aren't net contributors?

    Farage wants to blame economic problems on immigration, ignoring a much bigger picture. As much as I hate the tired soundbites it is true that this country 'only works for the privileged few'. Once we learn not to scapegoat we can start making progress.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: January 21, 2015
Poll
Do you think parents should charge rent?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.