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UKIP is not a racist party. Agree or disagree? watch

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    (Original post by Messiah Complex)
    What he said wasn't racist or xenophobic. It is backed up by statistics provided by London Met. Try again.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1263755/ed...s-not-a-racist

    Even Red Ed knows better than to go making such claims about people. Is Farage provocative in language? Definitely. A lot of politicians are.
    The 92% of ATM crime is a barefaced lie. The 28,000 arrested is heavily twisted and most of the arrests were actually for begging. https://fullfact.org/factchecks/roma...ne_crime-29254
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    The 92% of ATM crime is a barefaced lie. The 28,000 arrested is heavily twisted and most of the arrests were actually for begging. https://fullfact.org/factchecks/roma...ne_crime-29254
    Then take up issue with London Met Police who put those stats forward.

    All politicians twist statistics to suit their own or the party agenda. The only thing I dislike about Farage is how he claims he's a man of the people. He is not. I can probably relate to him more than the others simply because he's worked in the real world. However, that still doesn't make him the average bloke down the pub. I think all those voting for Farage because he's down the pub with a pint and seems like a genuine bloke are in for a massive shock whereas those voting for him because they want out of the EU know what they're getting.
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    (Original post by Messiah Complex)
    Then take up issue with London Met Police who put those stats forward.

    All politicians twist statistics to suit their own or the party agenda. The only thing I dislike about Farage is how he claims he's a man of the people. He is not. I can probably relate to him more than the others simply because he's worked in the real world. However, that still doesn't make him the average bloke down the pub. I think all those voting for Farage because he's down the pub with a pint and seems like a genuine bloke are in for a massive shock whereas those voting for him because they want out of the EU know what they're getting.
    The met put the 28,000 stat out, Farage then decided to twist it to suit his political agenda. The Met did not put out the ATM figure, it was one ex-policeman quoted in the daily express. Farage then decided to use this knowing full well it was a completle load of horse **** (he either knew or his grossely incompetant, which he's clearly not). Farage's political agenda in this instance was stirring up aminosity towards a particular group of people, a group of people he wouldn't want to live next to because "you know the difference" between them and everyone else.
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    The only ever racist party to me will be the BNP. I don't believe UKIP are racist, they just hate immigration and claim that immigration is the cause of a lot of problems in our country which I will agree. They may also blame Muslims for a few problems and who can blame UKIP for thinking like that. Even if they had something against Muslims, it isn't technically racist; Muslims aren't a race or an ethnic group.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    The met put the 28,000 stat out, Farage then decided to twist it to suit his political agenda. The Met did not put out the ATM figure, it was one ex-policeman quoted in the daily express. Farage then decided to use this knowing full well it was a completle load of horse **** (he either knew or his grossely incompetant, which he's clearly not). Farage's political agenda in this instance was stirring up aminosity towards a particular group of people, a group of people he wouldn't want to live next to because "you know the difference" between them and everyone else.
    Deluded Labour voter.
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    The problem with UKIP is that whilst a lot of its policies aren't explicitly racist or xenophobic, the sentiment behind them is. UKIP is so popular because people feel a lack of control about society - and that's totally fair enough, they've got plenty of reasons to feel like that. Most of the mainstream parties are completely ignoring this because the status quo serves them well. The problem is that whereas some parties actually offer to address the root causes of that lack of control, such as the Green Party, doing so requires making a lot of decisions that a lot of people find uncomfortable and facing facts that do not fit with their political views. UKIP, instead, addresses this feeling of a lack of control by blaming it on much easier targets - people are much more willing to blame their problems on foreigners, regardless of whether it's true or not. That's the real issue - whilst people are completely right to have lost faith in the mainstream parties, they're going in the complete opposite direction of the actual way to solve those problems. People are voting UKIP to get more control but their policies will bury us even deeper in the hole that's causing people to feel like that in the first place.
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    (Original post by Messiah Complex)
    Deluded Labour voter.
    When you are forced to resort to ad-hominem you know you've lost the argument. Enjoy your ignorance.
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    (Original post by Raymat)
    The only ever racist party to me will be the BNP. I don't believe UKIP are racist, they just hate immigration and claim that immigration is the cause of a lot of problems in our country which I will agree. They may also blame Muslims for a few problems and who can blame UKIP for thinking like that. Even if they had something against Muslims, it isn't technically racist; Muslims aren't a race or an ethnic group.
    We need immigration to stop population decline. The birth rate is far too low at the present time for a stop to immigration to make any economic sense at all.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    Xenophobic yes, racist probably.
    His wife is German you dumb **** :L
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    I despise UKIP and their views on what they consider a "True Britain", but I wouldn't call them racist. I think that word is abused in today's society.
    As for other party's such as the BNP, where physical and verbal actions have been carried out, I would consider that racist.
    Amazes me seeing that only a couple of years ago I recall the leader of the BNP being of Asian descent!


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    not racist
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    (Original post by jf1994)
    His wife is German you dumb **** :L
    You're resorting to the "I'm not racist because I have black friend" defence? I have covered his wife elsewhere in thread, Romanians might have destroyed the education system before you learnt to read though.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    When you are forced to resort to ad-hominem you know you've lost the argument. Enjoy your ignorance.
    The only person who is ignorant here is you. It is pointless trying to debate with you because your political loyalty, of which I have none as I hate all politicians vehemently, blinds your reality of the situation. Maybe its time to grow up and formulate your own opinions rather than joining the Labour cult of getting hysterical and screaming racist and other slurs when someone else says something you disagree with. You can claim ad-hominem all you like but the simple fact is that you have defamed Farage as a xenophobe and possibly a racist based on nothing more than his viewpoint on immigration. Pot. Kettle. Black. Yes I said black. Was that me being racist too? Did I offend you? Sorry. Not sorry.
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    Not racist. Not wanting to be in the EU isn't racist. Wanting to control our borders more strictly isn't racist...

    Australia has incredibly tight border security but the moment a party wants to increase it in the UK tumblr explodes with "farage is a racist!!!!"
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    (Original post by Messiah Complex)
    The only person who is ignorant here is you. It is pointless trying to debate with you because your political loyalty, of which I have none as I hate all politicians vehemently, blinds your reality of the situation. Maybe its time to grow up and formulate your own opinions rather than joining the Labour cult of getting hysterical and screaming racist and other slurs when someone else says something you disagree with. You can claim ad-hominem all you like but the simple fact is that you have defamed Farage as a xenophobe and possibly a racist based on nothing more than his viewpoint on immigration. Pot. Kettle. Black. Yes I said black. Was that me being racist too? Did I offend you? Sorry. Not sorry.
    I haven't even made my mind up about who I'm going to vote for yet and I'm blinded by loyalty to a party? I've joined the Labour cult yet I'm not a member of the Labour party but am infact a member of a different party? I've also explained multiple times that it's not about his stance on immigration, but often his rhetoric and given you examples of it.

    You have failed to offer anything in reponse everytime you've had the opportunity, resorted to ad-hominems and now claim that I'm wrong because I'm a member of a party that I'm not even a member of. You're a confused little flower with a very apt username.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    I've also explained multiple times that it's not about his stance on immigration, but often his rhetoric and given you examples of it.
    None of which actually makes him xenophobic. That is the point that is being made. I called you deluded because you think that his rhetoric makes him xenophobic. It doesn't. That claim is perfectly fine given the evidence you provided didn't even prove that he is in fact a xenophobe. You didn't say he was probably or could be a xenophobe, you said he is, with no 100% conclusive piece of evidence to back that up. Manipulation of statistics isn't xenophobic, its the typical behaviour of a politician.

    You have failed to offer anything in reponse everytime you've had the opportunity, resorted to ad-hominems and now claim that I'm wrong because I'm a member of a party that I'm not even a member of. You're a confused little flower with a very apt username.
    You can't really claim about ad-hominems when you resort to the same, buddy. Yes, we can all be condescending too.
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    (Original post by Messiah Complex)
    None of which actually makes him xenophobic. That is the point that is being made. I called you deluded because you think that his rhetoric makes him xenophobic. It doesn't. That claim is perfectly fine given the evidence you provided didn't even prove that he is in fact a xenophobe. You didn't say he was probably or could be a xenophobe, you said he is, with no 100% conclusive piece of evidence to back that up. Manipulation of statistics isn't xenophobic, its the typical behaviour of a politician.
    I class saying that you'd rather live next to Germans than Romanians because "you know the difference" as a racist/xenophobic statement. I also class the twisting of, or the fabrication of statistics with the aim of creating hatred towards a specific nationality as xenophobic/racist. This is the second time I've made this point to you, I suspect this will be the second time you are unable to respond.


    You can't really claim about ad-hominems when you resort to the same, buddy. Yes, we can all be condescending too.
    I only followed your lead.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    I class saying that you'd rather live next to Germans than Romanians because "you know the difference" as a racist/xenophobic statement.
    Why? The statistics prove that Germans commit less crime in the UK than Romanians. I'd rather live next to Germans too. I'd rather live next to Germans than chav like benefit claiming Brits as well. What a xenophobe I am.

    I also class the twisting of, or the fabrication of statistics with the aim of creating hatred towards a specific nationality as xenophobic/racist. This is the second time I've made this point to you, I suspect this will be the second time you are unable to respond.
    The use of the word "i" clearly means you've made up your own rules on what the term xenophobic means. Clearly, your viewpoint of the term xenophobic differs to the point to suit your own argument.

    In all 3 statements you've said "I this" and "I that". How about you accept that "I really couldn't give a crap about your opinion on the matter but I want to establish facts". You publicly, on this forum, went on record claiming Farage 'IS' a xenophobe. No, he is not. That is defamation. You may believe he is one but to state he is one is vehemently different. You seem to struggle comprehending your own language.


    I only followed your lead.
    Still invalidates your initial argument. An eye for an eye turns the whole world blind, after all. Whether the attack is verbal or physical matters not.
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    (Original post by Messiah Complex)
    Why? The statistics prove that Germans commit less crime in the UK than Romanians. I'd rather live next to Germans too. I'd rather live next to Germans than chav like benefit claiming Brits as well. What a xenophobe I am.
    I want to live in a white street, in a white town, in a white county, in a white country. Not racist, whites commit less crime.

    The use of the word "i" clearly means you've made up your own rules on what the term xenophobic means. Clearly, your viewpoint of the term xenophobic differs to the point to suit your own argument.

    In all 3 statements you've said "I this" and "I that". How about you accept that "I really couldn't give a crap about your opinion on the matter but I want to establish facts". You publicly, on this forum, went on record claiming Farage 'IS' a xenophobe. No, he is not. That is defamation. You may believe he is one but to state he is one is vehemently different. You seem to struggle comprehending your own language.
    Or it means I am expressing my opinion. As are you. As are we all in this thread. Would you like me to explain what an opinion is for you, as you seem to be struggling here.



    Still invalidates your initial argument. An eye for an eye turns the whole world blind, after all. Whether the attack is verbal or physical matters not.
    No, I have responded to every single one of your points and only resorted to ad-hominem when you gave me nothing but an ad-hominem to reply to. You had many points to reply to, couldn’t, so resorted to an ad-hominem. Do you see why you lost the argument now?
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    I want to live in a white street, in a white town, in a white county, in a white country. Not racist, whites commit less crime.
    If this is backed up by stats then fair enough.

    Or it means I am expressing my opinion. As are you. As are we all in this thread. Would you like me to explain what an opinion is for you, as you seem to be struggling here.
    The old 'Its just my opinion' argument doesn't work in the case of defamation. This is not an internal thought, this is something you posted on a public forum.


    No, I have responded to every single one of your points and only resorted to ad-hominem when you gave me nothing but an ad-hominem to reply to. You had many points to reply to, couldn’t, so resorted to an ad-hominem. Do you see why you lost the argument now?
    I've not lost no argument. You defamed a politician based on nothing more than your interpretation of what xenophobia actually is. Deluded. Again, nothing you've presented actually PROVES him to be xenophobic.

    The 'I believe' fallacy argument you're trying to put forward holds no credence whatsoever.
 
 
 
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