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Green party will be included in TV debates, along with SNP and Plaid Cymru watch

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    (Original post by Observatory)
    At this point it's just speculation
    Well, you've been speculating, whereas I've been repeating what his advisors have been openly briefing the papers; that it has less to do with the Greens than it has to do with Osborne and Crosby saying he should not take part in debates because a Prime Minister has little to gain and an opposition leader everything to gain

    Cameron's unwillingness to take part in the debates long predates the issue of the Greens participation, were you paying attention before that came up?
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Ed Miliband isn't a personable guy. It's a creepy JCR robot.
    Oh dear, more ad hominem attacks. I suppose you've drunk so much of your own side's kool aid that you genuinely believe it. How many times have you met Ed Miliband? Luckily, the debates are live and unedited so the right-wing doesn't get to control the narrative, unlike in the newspapers. The responses from the Bite the Ballot attendees were most instructive in that respect (of course, Cameron did not deign to put himself in front of a live audience there either)

    By the way, you never really got back to us about your position on the reform of contract law? It was a bit surreal to see you talking about your desire to "tidy up" contract law when you were unaware of even the most basic tenets like who are the parties to a contract
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    7 seems a bit excessive. LibLabCon and UKIP for sure (lib only because they have a decent amount of MPs), and the greens are debatable. Any more than that and I just think it's too much
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Ed Miliband isn't a personable guy. It's a creepy JCR robot. He might well be more intelligent than Cameron but so was Brown, and the only winner from the last debate was Clegg, who is both personable and intelligent.
    Everyone always forgets how goddamn personable Cleggy was at the last debates. What if he pulls it out the bag again, do you reckon all could be forgiven? Probably not....
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    (Original post by AstroNandos)
    7 seems a bit excessive. LibLabCon and UKIP for sure (lib only because they have a decent amount of MPs), and the greens are debatable. Any more than that and I just think it's too much
    Why are UKIP a dead cert and Greens debatable though? I would argue that they are both on a par in importance to this election? I feel like you need the Greens in there to balance out what is otherwise a fairly right wing debate?
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    (Original post by Condog10)
    Everyone always forgets how goddamn personable Cleggy was at the last debates. What if he pulls it out the bag again, do you reckon all could be forgiven? Probably not....
    I think it's more probable than most people think. The Lib Dem hate wagon has been rolling down the hill long enough already that it probably can't be fully stopped, but like I say, a 2-3 point swing is all it takes to decide the election.
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    if the snp are in then the dup must be too
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    (Original post by Condog10)
    Why are UKIP a dead cert and Greens debatable though? I would argue that they are both on a par in importance to this election? I feel like you need the Greens in there to balance out what is otherwise a fairly right wing debate?
    The Greens are categorically weaker than UKIP in terms of support and the durability of that support:



    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9115

    Although their poll spike seems to coincide with the EU election they actually lost vote share. The spike is probably due to the disproportionate media attention that was given to them in the aftermath. Even 8 months ago the Greens were a completely irrelevant party polling about 2%; today they're still polling at about half the level of UKIP.

    The view that both should be included or neither seems to be based in the idea if there's a hard right party represented there should also be a hard left party represented. Didn't work that way when the Lib Dems were the lone third party for many decades. Indeed the original proposal for Tory, Labour, UKIP, and Lib Dem would have contained two right and two left wing parties for the first time. The current arrangement will include five left wing parties and two right wing parties.
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    (Original post by Condog10)
    Why are UKIP a dead cert and Greens debatable though? I would argue that they are both on a par in importance to this election? I feel like you need the Greens in there to balance out what is otherwise a fairly right wing debate?
    Well I don't think they are on par, I think UKIP are more important as they currently have a high percentage in opinion polls, as well as have more MPs (albeit one more). I still personally think greens should participate, at least at the moment
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    (Original post by Condog10)
    Everyone always forgets how goddamn personable Cleggy was at the last debates. What if he pulls it out the bag again, do you reckon all could be forgiven? Probably not....
    His personal ratings actually went up after the debate with Farage but it never fed through to the parties polling so its possible. That being said i don't believe the current polls will reflect the result on the day, i'm looking at the Lib Dems probably being around 13% nationally with Ukip about the same but obviously with far less seats.
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    (Original post by Condog10)
    Why are UKIP a dead cert and Greens debatable though?
    The Greens have one MP and consistently lose deposits in byelections.

    UKIP, by contrast, rakes in thousands of votes, has 24 MEPs and was the highest polling party in the European elections.
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    (Original post by sdotd)
    if the snp are in then the dup must be too
    And Sinn Fein?
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    The DUP should be included in the debate
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    And Sinn Fein?
    Why not? If the SNP and Plaid are taking part. The have 5 times as many MPs as the Greens, and possibly a greater likelihood of being a coalition partnerI

    I think the DUP should take part as well, for the record. They are the fourth largest party at Westminster, and Robinson has written to the BBC today.

    Let's have a big free for all, and let the PM come across as just one among 8, yet another politician auditioning for your vote.
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    The DUP should be included in the debate
    What is the point of including regional parties?
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    Hilarious to see Osborne on Newsnight saying, "Look at my record".

    Well, let's take a look. Massive VAT increase hitting ordinary working people while he cuts taxes for the highest income earners and hedge funds. Promised the deficit would be eliminated in this parliament, while instead we had a deficit of 84 billion pounds in 2014. Government debt doubled over the course of the parliament.

    How is it that the government has managed to slash at departmental budgets, inflict huge funding decreases on a range of government services, enjoyed in 2014 100 billion pounds more revenue than we had in 2007, and yet still has an 84 billion pound deficit?

    Furthermore, over the period of the Labour government of Blair and Brown, 1.1 million children were taken out of relative poverty, a huge achievement by any standard. Over the course of this government 660,000 children will go back into relative poverty. Where is all the money going? They have 100 billion more revenue than they had in 2007 and still can't get the budget under control.

    Of course they will tell us it is bad luck, that even though the economy was growing at a healthy clip when Labour left office and when the Conservatives came into power we saw a contraction, someone else is to blame. You can't say "Look at my record, but it's someone else's fault", can you?
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    What is the point of including regional parties?
    Personally, I don't think any of the minor parties except UKIP should be included, but if we're going to make it a big ****ing messy free for all and the SNP and Plaid are to be included, so should the DUP.

    There's no reason to include SNP and Plaid and not DUP except anti-Ulster prejudice
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    What is the point of including regional parties?
    Because there's not a insignificant chance of the DUP backing the Tories or the SNP backing Labour post election. I think people deserve to know what they stand for.

    I don't actually agree with Plaid being there though (nor the Greens really) because neither looks like coming better than 4th even regionally but the Greens do need to be there strategically.
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    I don't get how the broadcasters have managed to make such a mess of the debates.

    What is really needed for future debates is for them to be devolved to the respective UK countries, and for party leaders to only be invited if they're representing a party who will be standing candidates within a certain percentage of contested seats within that respective country.

    Devolution makes it difficult to have these debates as a UK-wide event, so it's pointless trying to treat it in such a way. I could love everything that Plaid Cymru or the SNP say, but they're not contesting anywhere in England, so what's the point?

    I get that devolved debates would make it a bit difficult for parties who stand in more than one UK country, but it seems like time would be better spent working out those logistics rather than trying to have 7 people shouting over each other within a short period of time. It wouldn't exactly be difficult, for example, for Ed Miliband to decide if he'd want to participate in the Welsh or Scottish equivalent debate, or if he'd happily delegate it so that the party leaders in those respective countries would stand in on his behalf (even though they represent a different parliament).

    Admittedly, there is no straightforward solution, but inviting everybody under a UK-wide event just seems to add a whole new layer of problems, and has risked diluting the entire event and making it a fruitless exercise.
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    Total shambles now. Next thing you know somebody will be able to walk off the street into the debates. It also now leaves Labour not wanting to get involved. And not to play devils advocate and say: if Plaid Cymru and the SNP were invited, why not Sinn Fein? Yes, it is probably true that they wouldn't go, but why should the Scottish Nationalists, who are stuck up their arses, and the Welsh nationalists be given a platform but not the Irish nationaists?
    Personally, I think if the regional nationalist parties are going to be there they should all be represented by one individual.
    And then why aren't the DUP there being the fourth party when the SNP, Greens, Plaid and UKIP are there with fewer seats individually, and only 50% more when you combine them all?
 
 
 
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