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    (Original post by SnooFnoo)
    So it's okay for you to cry? Or like girly chick flicks? Or wear pink?

    It's not...you'd be deemed effeminate and in turn undesirable. This is because the patriarchy tells you (men) that you must be muscly and masculine for you to be desirable. The patriarchy affects men and women.
    But women LIKE that part of the patriarchy so no it doesn't exist
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    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    But women LIKE that part of the patriarchy so no it doesn't exist
    Data for this?

    or is this your personal "beta" judgement?

    The patriarchy sucks for men and women. Men should be allowed to do and like anything just as women should be too. Until that happens people will still fight for gender equality.
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    (Original post by SnooFnoo)
    Data for this?
    Data for your original assertion?
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    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    Data for your original assertion?
    All I need to do is ask you how you perceive yourself?
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    (Original post by SnooFnoo)
    Data for this?

    or is this your personal "beta" judgement?

    The patriarchy sucks for men and women. Men should be allowed to do and like anything just as women should be too. Until that happens people will still fight for gender equality.
    Most women don't care about men's rights provoded they can **** and acquire a hot high status guy. It inky matters at the extremes like once someone commits suicide from the pressure. Even they tend to be thought of as weak and pitiful or certainly emotionally unstable thus unattractive
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    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    Most women don't care about men's rights provoded they can **** and acquire a hot high status guy. It inky matters at the extremes like once someone commits suicide from the pressure. Even they tend to be thought of as weak and pitiful or certainly emotionally unstable thus unattractive
    Seriously get some counselling. It's so sad that you have such a negative perception of yourself
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    (Original post by SnooFnoo)
    All I need to do is ask you how you perceive yourself?
    I failed to be a man in many ways and until I prove it I am a figure of contempt to all. But even this is just to boost my ego since IRL no one cares.
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    (Original post by SnooFnoo)
    Seriously get some counselling. It's so sad that you have such a negative perception of yourself
    I've had 4 yeafs kf counselling e ough time to understand that self esteem is merely a means of ego preservation used by the sane to avoid existential crisis and depression

    I'm just saying how the world really behaves.
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    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    I've had 4 yeafs kf counselling e ough time to understand that self esteem is merely a means of ego preservation used by the sane to avoid existential crisis and depression

    I'm just saying how the world really behaves.
    If you are so bitter why not channel your emotions into driving self improvement so you can become a 'high status guy'?
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    (Original post by Academic Bruv)
    If you are so bitter why not channel your emotions into driving self improvement so you can become a 'high status guy'?
    I am trying, the fact I am only so sjccessfil fjrther fuels the anger
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    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    self esteem is merely a means of ego preservation used by the sane to avoid existential crisis and depression.
    Wow. Just wow.

    So many courses, so many text books, so many lectures.

    So much counselling, so much self-analysis, so much exploration of the psyche.

    Conclusions, accurately and precisely summed up in one sentence.

    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    I am trying, the fact I am only so sjccessfil fjrther fuels the anger
    Can't type for ***t, though!
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    (Original post by SnooFnoo)
    So it's okay for you to cry? Or like girly chick flicks? Or wear pink?

    It's not...you'd be deemed effeminate and in turn undesirable. This is because the patriarchy tells you (men) that you must be muscly and masculine for you to be desirable. The patriarchy affects men and women.
    I personally wear baby pink shirts all the time since I like the color. Never heard anything from guys or girls about it. I've discussed girl chicks I've enjoyed and not received a negative reception.

    It is immaterial that this is the rule or an exception. I could equally say to you (assuming woman), So it's okay for you to wear what you like? To not wear makeup? It's not... you'll be deemed butch. This is because the matriarchy tells you (women) that you must be delicate and feminine to be desirable.

    Of course this argument shouldn't even be needed. Because the fact there is this apparent social backfiring of the patriarchy onto men is just obvious evidence that it does not currently exists. The definition of the patriarchy is systems of social and legal thought that subjugates women and supports men.

    We cannot be living in a patriarchy which simultaneously has values that subjugate men (must be masculine, can't where pink).

    There exists gender problems for both men and women. While you can say 'those male problems stem from the patriarchy backfiring' - the fact the male problems exist prove we no longer live in a patriarchy.

    It is far more accurate to say we live in a oligarchical society with patriarchy roots. Because when you really get down to it, it is the poor which is disadvantaged and the rich which suffer. How much power did a male serf really have over his wife - the gap in power was between serfs and kings, not men and women? Even Emily Prankhurst was very rich and had slaves to do her bidding.

    Tl;Dr:

    - We observe institutionalized sexism against men in the form of enforcing gender roles, longer prison sentencing, unfair due process and child custody.
    - Under a working patriarchy such sexism would not be possible. As a patriarchy does the very opposite.
    - However these gender roles must have being enforced in the past for them to remain today, however weak.
    - Conclusion: We are observing the roots of a patriarchy society which is no longer and adequate description of our own.
    Secondly conclusion: Observations of society suggests that really, it is the poor being subjugated and the rich being propped up.
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    (Original post by SamKeene)
    I personally wear baby pink shirts all the time since I like the color. Never heard anything from guys or girls about it. I've discussed girl chicks I've enjoyed and not received a negative reception.

    It is immaterial that this is the rule or an exception. I could equally say to you (assuming woman), So it's okay for you to wear what you like? To not wear makeup? It's not... you'll be deemed butch. This is because the matriarchy tells you (women) that you must be delicate and feminine to be desirable.

    Of course this argument should even be needed. Because the fact there is this apparent social backfiring of the patriarchy onto men is just obvious evidence that it exists. The definition of the patriarchy is systems of social and legal thought that subjugates women and supports men.

    We cannot be living in a patriarchy which simultaneously has values that subjugate men (must be masculine, can't where pink).

    There exists gender problems for both men and women. While you can say 'those male problems stem from the patriarchy backfiring' - the fact the male problems exist prove we no longer live in a patriarchy.

    It is far more accurate to say we live in a oligarchical society with patriarchy roots. Because when you really get down to it, it is the poor which is disadvantaged and the rich which suffer. This is for both men a women. Even Emily Prankhurst was very rich and had slaves to do her bidding.
    Actually it is men who say I have to wear make up and look feminine to attract a man.

    Women have been down trodden for centuries and seen as the inferior sex. this is down to men feeling like they superior to women.

    We are getting there, but still a long way to go imo.
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    (Original post by SnooFnoo)
    Actually it is men who say I have to wear make up and look feminine to attract a man.

    Women have been down trodden for centuries and seen as the inferior sex. this is down to men feeling like they superior to women.

    We are getting there, but still a long way to go imo.
    I have made an edit to my previous post, especially at the end.

    I myself have seen women chastise others for not wearing make-up or being lady-like. Feminists call this internalized misogyny but whatever. Like I said, whether I was the rule or the exception is immaterial, as it is with you.

    The point is you cannot describe our society as an operating patriarchy system when men and women are equal under the law - and both parties suffer gender discrimination in society. A patriarchy implies that women are given less rights and/or there is institutionalized sexism on them exclusively.

    But that's not true. Women do have the same rights. Arguably even more if you look into reproductive rights. Women are favored incredibly in cases of legal sentencing (something like 40% less on average for the same crime) - there's a slightly insulting subreddit dedicated to this called /r/pussypass.

    For every crappy social expectation a woman may have, men have them too. I'm not making any absolute statements that there is equality in discrimination - only highlighting that whatever society we live in, it cannot be one which subjugates one sex or gender over the other.

    Haven't the ideas of 'Patriachy' and 'Matriarchy' always seemed simplistic and a cop-out to you? Patriarchy was originally an anthropological term simply referring to a society where a family had a 'patriarch'. Sociology and feminists highjacked it and stuck all these other corollaries and qualifiers onto it until its this incoherent intangible mess we see today.

    There are no doubts that if you go back even 60 years, a 'Patriarchy' might be a good description of society. The further you go back, the more appropriate it is. However through-out history money has always determined the powerful class. The privileged side. Starting from now, a description in general of society could go like this:


    Now: Oligarchical society with patriarchy roots, in some places more so than others. The former is often reinforced by some good studies.

    Father back: Oligarchical society which the descriptors of 'Patriarchy' become more and more relevant.

    Further further back: Oligarchical/Patriarchal society.

    Further more: Patriarchy society. (before invention of money)
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    (Original post by SnooFnoo)
    Actually it is men who say I have to wear make up and look feminine to attract a man.
    It must be great to not be responsible for one's own actions.


    Hey, I get pissed, eat pies and go fishing because women expect that behaviour of a man! It's all wimmins' fault!
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    (Original post by Simes)
    Wow. Just wow.

    So many courses, so many text books, so many lectures.

    So much counselling, so much self-analysis, so much exploration of the psyche.

    Conclusions, accurately and precisely summed up in one sentence.

    Can't type for ***t, though!
    I sense strong sarcasm and contempt for my post…imposition of the concept of intrinsic worth, 'everybody matters' and so is nonetheless a relatively recent phenomenon created by the welfare state and no doubt psychology stemming all the way back to Jung and Freud; observation of the neuroses and sometimes psychosis, that both typically emerge when there is a conflict between the id and ego (or I guess we could now say limbic brain and frontal lobe controlling primitive fight-or-flight messages to the CNS and the 'rational' 'human' part of us respectively!)

    Very true! I was in Aldi
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    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    I sense strong sarcasm and contempt for my post…
    Your senses let you down this time.

    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    psychology stemming all the way back to Jung and Freud
    A quack and a pervert.
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    (Original post by Simes)
    Your senses let you down this time.

    A quack and a pervert.
    it's er, kinda depressing to know that the only reason we train ourselves to like ourselves is so that we don't get killed or kill ourselves.
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    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    it's er, kinda depressing to know that the only reason we train ourselves to like ourselves is so that we don't get killed or kill ourselves.
    What else is there? Only self-deception, such as religion or believing achieving celebrity / fame / crime / fortune is the same as happiness or immortality.

    But if doing something, however, small, to make the world a better place overall makes one feel a little less worthless, isn't it worth a punt? Especially if we could all have a go?
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    (Original post by Simes)
    What else is there? Only self-deception, such as religion or believing achieving celebrity / fame / crime / fortune is the same as happiness or immortality.

    But if doing something, however, small, to make the world a better place overall makes one feel a little less worthless, isn't it worth a punt? Especially if we could all have a go?
    hmm
 
 
 
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