Why does this forum have a disproportionately high number of ethnic minorities? watch

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    I don't know why people are discussing the OP's post as if it is true.

    Anyway, it is not disproportionate considering that Ethnic minorities tend to be younger.
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    (Original post by Dylann)
    It's based off personal experience that is supported by research. Although there is no direct way to measure attitude to studying, it can be inferred from closely related studies:

    There are a lot of statistics you may find useful in that study.

    More ethnic minorities studying for a qualification, as well as some ethnic minority groups holding more degrees as a percentage (though I appreciate the fact that obviously many immigrants come over solely to study)
    Aggregate figures are misleading. If you look at that data closer then its basically just what everyone would expect - Indian and Chinese students do very well (as everyone knows - these groups tend to be high performing immigrant populations throughout the world). But the stereotypical “problem groups’ (blacks, and Pakistani+Bangladeshi Muslims) do substanitally worse than native Brits.

    Figures 4 and 6 in that report are the key ones - black and Muslim performance is low once you look at the raw data rather than trying to fudge it using "expected results" and FSM eligibility, etc. Additionally, these statistics are always contaminated by the fact they use such a low definitoin of achievement - 5 or more C-A* grades at GSCE, which a sufficiently bright octopus would be able to achieve, if only you could train it how to hold a pencil. If you take a more sensible definiotn of achievement (eg at least BBB at A Level, or getting an A in either maths or Enligsh) then the ethnic gap becomes much wider.

    Remember that most state schools actively try to fudge their figures for the purpose of gaming league tables - pupils who sit on the C/D borderline get a disprorportionate amount of attention in order to push them up to a C (which is what counts in league tables). Less intelligent students are encouraged to pick "easy" GSCEs/A Levels so they have more chance of getting a good grade. Etc etc etc. When you use "Getting 5 or more C-A* grades at GCSE" as the only criterion of achivement, the results are close to meaningless.
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    (Original post by poohat)
    Aggregate figures are misleading. If you look at that data closer then its basically just what everyone would expect - Indian and Chinese students do very well (as everyone knows - these groups tend to be high performing immigrant populations throughout the world). But the stereotypical “problem groups’ (blacks, and Pakistani+Bangladeshi Muslims) do substanitally worse than native Brits.

    Figures 4 and 6 in that report are the key ones - black and Muslim performance is low once you look at the raw data rather than trying to fudge it using "expected results" and FSM, etc. Additionally, these statistics are always contaminated by the fact they use such a low definitoin of achievement - 5 or more C-A* grades at GSCE, which realistically a sufficiently bright chimpanzee should be able to achieve with enough training. If you take a more sensible definiotn of achievement (eg at least BBB at A Level, or getting an A in either maths or Enligsh) then the ethnic gap becomes much wider.

    Remember that schools actively try to fudge their figures for the purpose of gaming league tables - pupils who sit on the C/D borderline get a disprorportionate amount of attention in order to push them up to a C (which is what counts in league tables). Less intelligent students are encouraged to pick "easy" GSCEs/A Levels so they have more chance of getting a good grade. Etc etc etc. When you use "Getting 5 or more C-A* grades at GCSE" as the only criterion of achivement, the results are close to meaningless.
    I agree. Perhaps this is much more useful. 12.2% of White British students get AAB in 2+ facilitating subjects compared to 18.3% Indian, 29.4% Chinese etc.
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    (Original post by The Gray Fox)
    That casual racism towards white people.
    Well, I am white British myself and the statistics I've posted show it to be somewhat true. I wouldn't say it's "racism" since the topic of the OP is about race.

    (Original post by Tarte Tatin)
    I agree with you to be honest. As un-politically correct as it is, it seems to be true. However, it's obviously not the case for everyone. I, as a white British girl, care a lot about my work.
    As a white British boy, me too.
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    first post has a degree of truth about ethnic working harder..i know on my course currently and back in school, ethnic people dominated the top of the academics...
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    (Original post by Dylann)
    I agree. Perhaps this is much more useful. 12.2% of White British students get AAB in 2+ facilitating subjects compared to 18.3% Indian, 29.4% Chinese etc.
    Yeah, thats a better comparison thanks - I hadn't seen those statistics before. I'm not sure what table you're looking at though. For getting AAB or better at A Level (which is a good measure of achievement since its what you need to get into most good universities), its:

    White British: 7.4%
    Indian: 13.1%
    Pakistani: 6.3%
    Bangladeshi: 4.8%
    Black Carribean: 1.6%
    Black African: 3.7%
    Chinese: 23.5%

    The Pakistani score is quite a bit higher than I was expecting, in fairness. Its interesting that they do so much better than blacks given they have an even higher poverty rate, and are further behind when they start school

    The Chinese percentage is ridiculous but expected, what an awesome immigrant group. Sadly they are also the smallest group (only 2000 students compared to 10000+ for most ethnic groups), thanks broken UK immigration system!
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    (Original post by Okorange)
    Unless you've actually been to China you are just spouting off what you've read in the media. I've been to China and this was not true at all. I would say that the Chinese I met were very far from grade machines. They were incredibly knowledgeable, knew almost everything we know even about politics, they know how their country works and how other countries work and the differences etc. They study incredibly diverse subjects, out of 4 people i met 1 was studying music, the other communications, the 3rd not in uni and the 4th in computer science.
    I taught English in China. I also did a Chinese exchange at my university.

    The idea of "grade machines" is a serious issue currently being debated in Chinese educational policy.
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    I have no idea about the first question.
    So you've just admitted that the entire premise of your thread is wrong.

    You have absolutely no idea whether there are more minorities here at all.

    So why ask?
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    So you've just admitted that the entire premise of your thread is wrong.

    You have absolutely no idea whether there are more minorities here at all.

    So why ask?
    Well I have an idea because I can read statistics. Obviously I can't know and I'm not as confident about my knowing this as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow or such.
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    Well I have an idea because I can read statistics. Obviously I can't know and I'm not as confident about my knowing this as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow or such.
    What statistics though? Do you have any evidence to back up your assertion?
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    I don't think it does, just that some are more vocal than others because a large percentage of young people identifying with ethnicity may have something to prove and are seemingly under their parents thumbs/religion most of the time. Going wild and expressing themselves on-line is perhaps a sort of outlet?

    Which may not be the case for those from multi-generational well established UK families who choose more unorthodox ways of dress/makeup/tattoos/music etc. for expression.

    It could be said that the latter are not as socially inept or insecure and tend to have more social freedoms, are not sexually repressed and don't have a grudge to bare against historical colonialism etc.
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    Not the most torpid racist are you. How the hell do you even know there's a majority ethnic minority? Go back to being torpid on this one. Nonsense.
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    (Original post by poohat)
    Chinese immigrants outperform Westerners in pretty much every Western country - the idea that their high performance is due to some quirk of the Chinese education is not a sensible explanation.
    Yes it is. It's not difficult to see the very obvious link between "grade machines" and "outperforming". It has become part of Chinese culture in families to see education only as a means to an end in the most extreme possible sense. Grades are paramount to everything. There is a somewhat similar attitude in the UK but it is nowhere near the level I experienced in China and there has been no distortion or exaggeration by the media.

    (Original post by poohat)
    A simpler explanation is to note that pretty much every study of IQ?intelligence puts the Chinese about 10 points higher than Europeans (even when you control for family environment/upbrining by looking at Asians adopted into white families)
    That says nothing about the education system. You are looking at results - I am critiquing the process of getting those results.
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    Ethnic minorities are more likely to have problems?
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    Given that's it's a UK forum that is. It's pretty weird, but it's quite obvious that there are a disproportionate number. In actuality only just over 10% of people in the UK are an ethnic minority. That is not the case with TSR.
    The % of ethnic minorities in the population of student-aged people is much higher than in the overall population.
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    (Original post by timetoella)
    Not the most torpid racist are you. How the hell do you even know there's a majority ethnic minority? Go back to being torpid on this one. Nonsense.


    I edited my first post. My mistake was not being aware of the fact that the student population is demographically very different from the ordinary one.

    You're being ridiculous with claims of "racism" though. I'm simply mis-using statistics, I'm not exhibiting or creating prejudices.
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)


    I edited my first post. My mistake was not being aware of the fact that the student population is demographically very different from the ordinary one.

    You're being ridiculous with claims of "racism" though. I'm simply mis-using statistics, I'm not exhibiting or creating prejudices.
    The way you brought it up wasn't exactly to only open discussion. There was a tone of annoyance at the fact that there might be more ethnic minorities on here. But hey you seem like you don't want to exhibit or create prejudice from your reply so it's fine just maybe think next time before you go at something from a dodgy angle.

    ('Racism' was just a nice little overstatement to stick in with my comments)
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    (Original post by timetoella)
    The way you brought it up wasn't exactly to only open discussion. There was a tone of annoyance at the fact that there might be more ethnic minorities on here. But hey you seem like you don't want to exhibit or create prejudice from your reply so it's fine just maybe think next time before you go at something from a dodgy angle.

    ('Racism' was just a nice little overstatement to stick in with my comments)
    Re-reading it I can see why some people might interpret the "why" as offensive as if I was implying there should be no reason for there to be as many non-whites here.

    I genuinely just found it odd as I encounter a lot more ethnic minorities here than IRL and I don't particular live in a non-ethnic area. I'm a curious person and I wanted to know why. It seems the main reason is that the demographic of students is far more populated with ethnic minorities than the overall demographic in the UK.
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    Re-reading it I can see why some people might interpret the "why" as offensive as if I was implying there should be no reason for there to be as many non-whites here.

    I genuinely just found it odd as I encounter a lot more ethnic minorities here than IRL and I don't particular live in a non-ethnic area. I'm a curious person and I wanted to know why. It seems the main reason is that the demographic of students is far more populated with ethnic minorities than the overall demographic in the UK.
    So where did you get this information about ethnic minorities on here? Or are you just making an estimation based on what you've seen?
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    (Original post by timetoella)
    So where did you get this information about ethnic minorities on here? Or are you just making an estimation based on what you've seen?
    Purely based on what I've seen.

    Now I'm going to have to make another thread.
 
 
 
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