I don't mind! It has not to be that mathematicians are not interest in physics. There are exceptions!(Original post by Kadak)
Loads of pure mathematicians don't really like physicists though.
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Kallisto
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 01022015 12:53

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 01022015 12:55
(Original post by Kallisto)
I don't mind! It has not to be that mathematicians are not interest in physics. There are exceptions! 
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 01022015 13:03
(Original post by CancerousProblem)
My dad says physics is super important because it underlines our fundamental understanding of the universe, so he was quite mad at me when I got a B for our Physics mock, but so far A level physics seems rather dull to me and has done little to enhance my understanding. All the difficulties in A level physics tests don't seem to have much to do with actual physics but instead just examiners trying to trip you up by sneakily adding a trap to every other question like changing the units and making the exam super timepressured, so you don't have time to check or go through each question carefully. (I do OCR Specification B, and this is what Physics in Action feels like.)
In a sense, this subject doesn't feel like a real subject. It definitely doesn't feel as 'real' as mathematics, for some reason, and I find it hard to see physics as a subject that can even rival mathematics in terms of the depth and beauty. The abstract thought that mathematics revolves around is far more elegant and permanent than physics.
(This is almost as bad as A level economics, which I feel has almost no depth at all to the subject and shouldn't really be a subject: Economics is really just common sense with a few fancy words, definitions, and models that you have to remember.)
I'm doing further maths, maths, physics and economics for a levels, with maths being my favorite subject. I'm starting to feel an increasingly strong dislike towards Physics the more I do it. My a level exam board doesn't seem to show ANY link between the two subjects, apart from a very basic keystage3 sort of level.
One time, one of my dads friends heard I liked maths, so he recommended a book to me and said "if you like maths you'll like this book". It was called "The Universe". I flicked through it and it looked like maths, but after reading a few pages I quickly realized that it was more of a physics book than a maths book. I instantly put the book down in disgust, I felt almost as if I was cheated, as I was expecting a more meaningful experience.
How do people who have tasted the remarkable beauty of maths even like this cancerous subject? 
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 01022015 13:09
(Original post by CancerousProblem)
My dad says physics is super important because it underlines our fundamental understanding of the universe, so he was quite mad at me when I got a B for our Physics mock, but so far A level physics seems rather dull to me and has done little to enhance my understanding. All the difficulties in A level physics tests don't seem to have much to do with actual physics but instead just examiners trying to trip you up by sneakily adding a trap to every other question like changing the units and making the exam super timepressured, so you don't have time to check or go through each question carefully. (I do OCR Specification B, and this is what Physics in Action feels like.)
In a sense, this subject doesn't feel like a real subject. It definitely doesn't feel as 'real' as mathematics, for some reason, and I find it hard to see physics as a subject that can even rival mathematics in terms of the depth and beauty. The abstract thought that mathematics revolves around is far more elegant and permanent than physics.
(This is almost as bad as A level economics, which I feel has almost no depth at all to the subject and shouldn't really be a subject: Economics is really just common sense with a few fancy words, definitions, and models that you have to remember.)
I'm doing further maths, maths, physics and economics for a levels, with maths being my favorite subject. I'm starting to feel an increasingly strong dislike towards Physics the more I do it. My a level exam board doesn't seem to show ANY link between the two subjects, apart from a very basic keystage3 sort of level.
One time, one of my dads friends heard I liked maths, so he recommended a book to me and said "if you like maths you'll like this book". It was called "The Universe". I flicked through it and it looked like maths, but after reading a few pages I quickly realized that it was more of a physics book than a maths book. I instantly put the book down in disgust, I felt almost as if I was cheated, as I was expecting a more meaningful experience.
How do people who have tasted the remarkable beauty of maths even like this cancerous subject? 
Dalek1099
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 01022015 13:11
(Original post by Thorsas)
I've often thought what holds Physics back is that they have to make it so you can do A Level Physics without doing A Level Maths, which some people choose to do and to me is a very odd choice. If they could assume more maths confidence they'd be able to introduce you to more demanding concepts. Even so, I encourage you to see beyond the test paper and enjoy what you're actually being taught. I think there is interest to be had.
In short I love Maths and Physics but Physics is where my heart lies and it's because it's not just a field of numbers and formulae. While it's nice to swim in those waters from time to time I am very much excited by seeing what we humans can do when we put Maths to work in the real world. We can mathematically describe how everything works! I can see how far a bullet will fly, I can predict how loud a sound will be at a certain distance from its source, I can work out how much force I need to place on a wire before it snaps. These things are all very useful and cool to me. AS Physics gives you a brief introduction to these aspects of physics in the small ways its maths restrictions allow it to.
A2 physics might be better if you're not doing it yet. Generally includes gravity/space stuff, electric/magnetic fields, particle accelerators. Cool, useful physics like you hear about on TV, but not quite relativity yet!
As for the paper itself, you can eliminate mistakes because of units and things by doing loads of past papers. It's the same tricks every time and you are smarter than the question . I don't really like that aspect of the course myself but most A Level exams are this way.
The rule should be that if Maths comes up in the topic that students are supposed to know about then they will have to know it, this would mean calculus for finding areas under curves and differentiation to find the emf from the flux linkage etc. but at the moment the syllabus does its best to cut out all the Maths content, it is simply not right to try desperately to avoid higher level Maths in the Physics course.If I was in charge of education Maths would be based only on Pure and Statistics and Physics would consist of mainly Mechanics Maths modules, in the place it belongs not in Maths. 
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 01022015 13:15
(Original post by Kadak)
Loads of pure mathematicians don't really like physicists though.
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"Pure maths is the ballet of maths, while applied maths is the Morris dancing" 
Dalek1099
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 01022015 13:15
(Original post by lerjj)
But...but... As level maths doesn't contain enough maths! Maybe it's your physics teachers, but I'd already made notes on the As before taking it and it still felt like we did a lot of physics. On the other hand, in maths we're just doing exercises and just learning some techniques. There's hardly any interesting bits of maths is As physics, but it's barely better for As maths. 
Gnomes&Knights
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 01022015 13:28
Physics has a lot to do with Maths. Surprisingly I can recall when I was at college a lot of the people who chose Maths and Physics were doing well in Maths but rubbish in Physics. I think its that stereotypical thought that if you are good at Maths you will be good at Physics which isn't true. They were fooled into thinking Physics had a lot of Maths which is true to an extent but they forgot that Physics is a 'Science' so it will have more to do with theory and deep thought than maths skills. A lot of those that were good at Maths weren't that good at Science when at GCSE so by taking Physics they had it coming!!
Last edited by Gnomes&Knights; 01022015 at 13:30. 
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 01022015 13:37
(Original post by Raymat)
Physics has a lot to do with Maths. Surprisingly I can recall when I was at college a lot of the people who chose Maths and Physics were doing well in Maths but rubbish in Physics. I think its that stereotypical thought that if you are good at Maths you will be good at Physics which isn't true. They were fooled into thinking Physics had a lot of Maths which is true to an extent but they forgot that Physics is a 'Science' so it will have more to do with theory and deep thought than maths skills. A lot of those that were good at Maths weren't that good at Science when at GCSE so by taking Physics they had it coming!!
Also, I'm not quite sure what you think (proper) maths involves if you've managed to separate 'maths skills' and 'theory and deep thought'. 
Ichiko N.A.B.
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 01022015 13:52
(Original post by SnoochToTheBooch)
Physics is maths.
no Chemistry without Physics,
no Physics without Mathematics
and no Mathematics without...
well Maths is very much self sustaining. 
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 01022015 13:54
(Original post by Dalek1099)
AS Maths contained lots of exciting topics like differentiation and integration to find tangents to a curve and the area under a curve and stationary points lots of Algebra, the sum of a geometric series to infinity, trigonometric identities to make a quadratic in sine or cosine, logarithms(I can't believe I nearly forgotten about them) they are so exciting, binomial expansion to quickly find the first few terms of large algebraic expansions, there was exciting stuff in statistics like the normal distribution involving simulatenous equations to find the mean and standard deviation and probability rules.
The binomial expansion theorem is NOT interesting. I honestly do love maths, but this had to be the most meaningless bit of core maths ever we were told neither why the coefficients were the same as nCr, nor why these correlated to Pascal's triangle.
Probability rules were interesting true. Stats actually had some limited set theory which was pretty awesome, but I can't agree that normal distributions were helpful at all.
interesting stuff covered in As maths
Logarithms and index laws these were pretty cool and unbelievably useful.
Series, both arithmetic and geometric. The proofs for the sums especially, were useful.
The tiny bit in C1 where they almost proved the differentiation laws... but then got bored and just told you the answers whilst skipping the proof.
Trig identities, and most of C3 looks pretty cool actually
interesting stuff in As physics
Most of the stuff on DC circuits is interesting and really analytical, you use rules to simplify sections of circuits into components with the same properties. Using Kirchoff's laws to form simultaneous equations was especially cool.
The waves content looks very interesting, but I haven't gotten to it yet. Fingers crossed.
Work on units! This was the first thing we did this year in physics, and provided a way to immediately check yourself in every step of a proof by comparing units.
The quantum topic was taught to me in a very interesting way, but I have looked at the spec (AQA) and I realise it might not be the same for everyone. We appear to have learned a lot we didn't need to.
Next year, we get to do fields and even more mathsy stuff!

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 01022015 13:58
(Original post by Ichiko N.A.B.)
There would be no Biology without Chemistry,
no Chemistry without Physics,
no Physics without Mathematics
and no Mathematics without...
well Maths is very much self sustaining.
Mathematics encodes physics. If it didn't exist, physics would be less compact, but still there. (Oh, and maths relies on philosophy surely?) 
Dalek1099
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 01022015 13:59
(Original post by lerjj)
We could debate this all day, but in C1 and C2, no proof is given for how to differentiate polynomials and no other functions are derived meaning you can't differentiate most functions until C3.
The binomial expansion theorem is NOT interesting. I honestly do love maths, but this had to be the most meaningless bit of core maths ever we were told neither why the coefficients were the same as nCr, nor why these correlated to Pascal's triangle.
Probability rules were interesting true. Stats actually had some limited set theory which was pretty awesome, but I can't agree that normal distributions were helpful at all.
interesting stuff covered in As maths
Logarithms and index laws these were pretty cool and unbelievably useful.
Series, both arithmetic and geometric. The proofs for the sums especially, were useful.
The tiny bit in C1 where they almost proved the differentiation laws... but then got bored and just told you the answers whilst skipping the proof.
Trig identities, and most of C3 looks pretty cool actually
interesting stuff in As physics
Most of the stuff on DC circuits is interesting and really analytical, you use rules to simplify sections of circuits into components with the same properties. Using Kirchoff's laws to form simultaneous equations was especially cool.
The waves content looks very interesting, but I haven't gotten to it yet. Fingers crossed.
Work on units! This was the first thing we did this year in physics, and provided a way to immediately check yourself in every step of a proof by comparing units.
The quantum topic was taught to me in a very interesting way, but I have looked at the spec (AQA) and I realise it might not be the same for everyone. We appear to have learned a lot we didn't need to.
Next year, we get to do fields and even more mathsy stuff!

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 01022015 14:10
(Original post by Dalek1099)
They proved the derivatives using first principles in my C1 class and my Further Maths GCSE class, did you want the full proof that is just a lot messier and is simply doing the same method but with the binomial expansion.Binomial Expansion is really useful for approximations and to make calculations much quicker imagine multiplying loads of brackets together.
and then showed that for x^2, x^3 the usual rule was true. No attempt at proving it using the binomial expansion, even though it's not that much messier. What followed was then several hours worth of differentiating functions using the same rule which hadn't been proved properly and finding turning points etc.
Which was not very enlightening. It did drill in the technique, but we didn't really do any maths, more like numeracy. 
XxKingSniprxX
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 01022015 14:12
In short, Physics makes sense of the mathematics which maths students can't understand.
^ This applies at university level but is also applicable to the Mechanics modules in A level maths i.e M1M4.
M1 = Suvats/F=MA. > No previous knowledge needed but A level Physics makes sense of the problems.
M2 = Work/Power/Centre of Mass/Projectiles > same as M1.
M3 = Circular motion etc > Requires C4 knowledge of volume of revolutions.
M4 = Simple Harmonic motion etc > Requires FP2 Knowledge.
M5 = can't remember.
I do acknowledge A level Physics doesn't really involve much maths but you have to remember the entry requirements are only a 'A/B' grade at GCSE Maths .*. they are quite limited at what they can ask from you. If you want a challenge do [C1C4+M12] & [FP1FP3+M3M5]Last edited by XxKingSniprxX; 01022015 at 14:14. 
Dalek1099
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 01022015 14:15
(Original post by lerjj)
They proved this result:
and then showed that for x^2, x^3 the usual rule was true. No attempt at proving it using the binomial expansion, even though it's not that much messier. What followed was then several hours worth of differentiating functions using the same rule which hadn't been proved properly and finding turning points etc.
Which was not very enlightening. It did drill in the technique, but we didn't really do any maths, more like numeracy. 
Serpentine111
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 01022015 14:21
Lol maths is a bit dumb if you're doing it for the sake of doing maths. In physics there's a reason you learn the mathematics  to apply it to situations in real life. If you do physics at university level there is A LOT of maths. Don't call physics "cancerous" just because you're doing bad in it and you're just mad.

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 01022015 14:25
(Original post by XxKingSniprxX)
In short, Physics makes sense of the mathematics which maths students can't understand.
^ This applies at university level but is also applicable to the Mechanics modules in A level maths i.e M1M4.
M1 = Suvats/F=MA. > No previous knowledge needed but A level Physics makes sense of the problems.
M2 = Work/Power/Centre of Mass/Projectiles > same as M1.
M3 = Circular motion etc > Requires C4 knowledge of volume of revolutions.
M4 = Simple Harmonic motion etc > Requires FP2 Knowledge.
M5 = can't remember.
I do acknowledge A level Physics doesn't really involve much maths but you have to remember the entry requirements are only a 'A/B' grade at GCSE Maths .*. they are quite limited at what they can ask from you. If you want a challenge do [C1C4+M12] & [FP1FP3+M3M5] 
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 01022015 14:25
(Original post by Serpentine111)
Lol maths is a bit dumb if you're doing it for the sake of doing maths. In physics there's a reason you learn the mathematics  to apply it to situations in real life. If you do physics at university level there is A LOT of maths. Don't call physics "cancerous" just because you're doing bad in it and you're just mad.
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 01022015 14:29
(Original post by Kadak)
It's not dumb if you do maths for the sake of maths, Pure mathematics is the study of maths just for the sake of maths. development in pure maths has revolutionised physics and how we live.
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