Nature or Nurture? Watch

Jonatan
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Psyk)
For example you could have a male-to-female transsexual that is attracted to women (although I imagine this is rarely diagnosed since it would be hard to tell).
It would not be diagnosed because they would not care about who you are attracted to as that is irrelevant. As it happens, I know someone who fits the above description fairly well.
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mipmapped
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#22
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#22
This? Again?

With that having been said, I reckon being gay is definitely biological. I mean, who in their right mind would choose to be gay? Gay people are still struggling for equal legal rights, still have to deal with prejudice, can't have children, often run the risk of being rejected by their parents, etc. It's a disadvantageous position to be in.
I reckon being a peadophile is definitely biological. I mean, who in their right mind would choose to be a peadophile?

No, it's more often than not the case that they themselves were abused. They don't want to be paedophiles.

Note; I'm not claiming that gays are paedos, or have been abused, I'm using it to illustrate the false belief that if someone has a personality trait they consider undesireable, that trait must have a genetic background.

People don't work like that. Just talk to any depressive, obsessive compulsive etc.
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Psyk
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Jonatan)
It would not be diagnosed because they would not care about who you are attracted to as that is irrelevant. As it happens, I know someone who fits the above description fairly well.
Oh fair enough. Must be very confusing for a homosexual-transsexual though. On the one hand they think they should be the other sex, yet at the same time they are also attracted to the other sex, which would probably make them think twice about the first point.
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Howard
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#24
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#24
(Original post by mipmapped)
I reckon being a peadophile is definitely biological. I mean, who in their right mind would choose to be a peadophile?

No, it's more often than not the case that they themselves were abused. They don't want to be paedophiles.
Can you make your mind up? Are peadophiles born or made?
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The_Bear
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#25
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#25
Both nature and nuture have an effect. Some are born gay, some become gay.
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Howard
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#26
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#26
(Original post by The_Bear)
Both nature and nuture have an effect. Some are born gay, some become gay.
I thought the biological "gay gene" idea had been virtually discounted altogether.
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totalfussball
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#27
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#27
I thought it was gentic but if you think of the actual biology it seems pretty implausable. If there were a 'gay' gene that pherhaps created a chemical making you attracted to the opposite sex how would it get passed on? Gay 'people' do not sexually reproduce so it couldnt be passed on. So because of this I believe it is through Nuture.
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The_Bear
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Howard)
I thought the biological "gay gene" idea had been virtually discounted altogether.
Yeah so had I but in another discussion someone posted some scientists work on the matter and the conclusions were of a possible genetic predisposition that nuturing enhances.
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Psyk
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Howard)
Can you make your mind up? Are peadophiles born or made?
I think the first sentence was in jest.
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Beekeeper
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#30
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#30
(Original post by WokSz)
I don't have any logical or scientific argument for this, but it's just what I believe to be true.
OK... I think this persons logic sums up one side of the argument here.
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Jonatan
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Psyk)
Oh fair enough. Must be very confusing for a homosexual-transsexual though. On the one hand they think they should be the other sex, yet at the same time they are also attracted to the other sex, which would probably make them think twice about the first point.
She isn't homosexual, she's Bi... :p: Think her girlfriend is too...

Regarding confusion, I can offer you a weird situation from personal experience. Suppose you're bi, don't really believe in "open" relationships and would love to have children some day... Oh well, at least where I'm from the option of adoption would be open in any case.

As for the nature vs nurture argument. Maybe people would like to explain why
a) Mono-zygotic twins are more likely to have the same sexuality than di-zygotic twins are.
b) The correlation is far from 100% for monozygotic twins
c) Men with older biological brothers are more likely to be gay than men who have only adopted brothers.
d) Homosexuality is frequently observed among animals.
e) Homosexuality is relatively common despite having a significant impact on wether people reproduce or not.
f) Attempts to "alter" somebody's sexuality are generally ineffective (most psychologists even consider it potentially harmful)

Nature? Nurture? I'm going to go for the "really rather complicated" answer. Love isn't simple...
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SuperhansFavouriteAlsatian
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#32
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#32
(Original post by The_Bear)
Both nature and nuture have an effect. Some are born gay, some become gay.
And some have gayness thrust upon 'em.

In prison.
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gideon2000uk
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#33
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I think as long as everyone accepts that it's not a choice - tihs debate is essentially meaningless.
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Golden Maverick
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Jonatan)
d) Homosexuality is frequently observed among animals.
As far as I'm aware people haven't observed animals in solely homosexual pairings, perhaps through it being quite difficult to observe. However, it might suggest that while animals act in homosexual ways periodically they do not do so exclusively. Have you read anything to the contrary?

And Gideon - the debate doesn't become meaningless if you accept that but switches to being a scientific one.
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Psyk
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#35
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#35
(Original post by DanGrover)
And some have gayness thrust upon 'em.

In prison.
I think there's probably a big difference between people who have always been gay and people who do gay things in prison or other situations where there is no one of the opposite sex. I'd argue that you don't really become gay in prison but resort to homosexual activities because there's not really any other form of sexual release. I bet that once they get out of prison most of them go back to women.
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Jonatan
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Golden Maverick)
However, it might suggest that while animals act in homosexual ways periodically they do not do so exclusively. Have you read anything to the contrary?
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosex...exual_behavior

Compare with my avatar...
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SuperhansFavouriteAlsatian
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#37
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(Original post by Psyk)
I think there's probably a big difference between people who have always been gay and people who do gay things in prison or other situations where there is no one of the opposite sex. I'd argue that you don't really become gay in prison but resort to homosexual activities because there's not really any other form of sexual release. I bet that once they get out of prison most of them go back to women.
REALLY
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Golden Maverick
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Jonatan)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosex...exual_behavior

Compare with my avatar...
Interesting.. I had thought you'd need a species like the penguin to demonstrate such a thing, in terms of the lifelong pair bonding.
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mipmapped
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#39
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Can you make your mind up? Are peadophiles born or made?
I was illustrating the absurdity of the argument.
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Psyk
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#40
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#40
(Original post by DanGrover)
REALLY
Well I don't know really, it just makes sense to me. It's just an idea, don't have evidence to back it up. I just can't imagine someone turning 100% gay just because they are separated from women for a few years. The impression I get from films about it is that it's mostly about power rather than sexual attraction. And I'm assuming there is a small element of truth to the way it's portrayed in films.
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