iPixelBlue
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#21
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#21
(Original post by MAINE.)
After Oxbridge & LSE, Warwick gets most numbers into banking year on year (on par with UCL). Imperial gets lowest numbers in, but this is likely due to to less people from Imperial being interested in banking in the first place.
I am going to Imperial next year (Maths), and i am sure my chances will be as high as Oxbridge/LSE etc.. But you're right in that less from Imperial go into IB than, say, UCL because its mostly an engineering/tech based uni
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iPixelBlue
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#22
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(Original post by Noble.)
You don't need a high 2:1/1st if you're Oxbridge/LSE etc, just a 2:1.

What you generally find at 'top banks' is the majority of Oxbridge/LSE etc. graduates have a 2:1, while a much higher proportion of graduates from other universities have a first.
true
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TheRenaissanceMan
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Inflintude)
Hello everyone,

I'm 17 years old studying Economics, Maths and German for my A-levels, getting straight A's in my tests and I've always wanted to be an Investment Banker.
I've have been watching the stock markets and looking how other top bankers made their millions to live the luxury life. I've heard it's hard to get into the Investment Banking field and not many people can become a millionaire.
My dad is a banker for HSBC and he's been telling me where he went wrong so I don't have to do the same mistakes. He told me about getting an MBA and to keep pushing myself and work hard.

Any other advice would be great,
Thanks.
Heres some truth - you don't become a wealthy investment banker.

Most investment bankers can barely afford to live in their box flats in London. For the first 3 years of being an Analyst/Trader or otherwise.

Then most don't even make it to associate level.

How do you become wealthy in whatever you do --- be ruthlessly good at the service/industry you are in. And have outstanding social skills.

Here is another sad truth - you can't get rich working for someone else 99.9999% of the time.

Edit:

(Original post by Econight)
Why has no one actually told OP you have a better chance becoming wealthy by becoming an entrepreneur than in investment banking?
Smart people do exist on this Forum.
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fuuji
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#24
(Original post by iPixelBlue)
true, i agree eg. a geography degree would be sufficient for trading etc. But if you want to go to a TOP bank then you should maximise your chances. Those subjects give you a better chance (assuming you get a 1st or high 2:1 from those unis i mentioned), everything else held constant.

Non-elite banks would be more okay with an arts degree from Nottingham/Southampton etc.
Can you post some examples of one of these non elite banks that have bunches of people from nottingham arts doing FO roles? Where are these horrible banks that don't really care about their grads? I've interviewed at probably 20 banks and worked at 2 and the ACs always have the same schools: Oxbridge, LSE, warick, Imperial and then a bunch of kids from the european businesses schools, boconni, INSEAD and HEC.

To answer the OPs question go to a target uni ideally LSE and Oxbridge, in your 2nd year apply to every single bank you can, I did 47 applications. Be confident and likable in your interviews, most UK interviewers for IB are fit based. You really don't need to be that smart for IB they're not going to ask you about your degree they couldn't care less, they want someone that they can work with and who is driven. Take an accounting course in your first year, this is something I thought was great about my uni nearly everyone has to do basic accounting in first year. It's really important for the projects in assessment centres because you'll inevitably need to know what EBITDA or FCF is. Ideally have something special about you on your CV that sticks out. I had that I ran a business in my A levels that had a six figure revenue and paid for my university, firms like stuff that shows motivation.

A lot of people on this forum make out that getting into banking is much harder then it is. You don't need a first, just a 2.1. They don't care if you did imperial maths vs oxford econ, either will get you an interview. Unless its something exceptional they probably don't care about your ECs unless they have similar interests. They just want people who they like who really want to do the work.
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iPixelBlue
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#25
(Original post by fuuji)
Can you post some examples of one of these non elite banks that have bunches of people from nottingham arts doing FO roles? Where are these horrible banks that don't really care about their grads? I've interviewed at probably 20 banks and worked at 2 and the ACs always have the same schools: Oxbridge, LSE, warick, Imperial and then a bunch of kids from the european businesses schools, boconni, INSEAD and HEC.

To answer the OPs question go to a target uni ideally LSE and Oxbridge, in your 2nd year apply to every single bank you can, I did 47 applications. Be confident and likable in your interviews, most UK interviewers for IB are fit based. You really don't need to be that smart for IB they're not going to ask you about your degree they couldn't care less, they want someone that they can work with and who is driven. Take an accounting course in your first year, this is something I thought was great about my uni nearly everyone has to do basic accounting in first year. It's really important for the projects in assessment centres because you'll inevitably need to know what EBITDA or FCF is. Ideally have something special about you on your CV that sticks out. I had that I ran a business in my A levels that had a six figure revenue and paid for my university, firms like stuff that shows motivation.

A lot of people on this forum make out that getting into banking is much harder then it is. You don't need a first, just a 2.1. They don't care if you did imperial maths vs oxford econ, either will get you an interview. Unless its something exceptional they probably don't care about your ECs unless they have similar interests. They just want people who they like who really want to do the work.
This is actually really informative.
During my second year at Imperial maths, I will defo make sure to apply to as many banks as possible.

and i must say wow! 6 figure takings during A-levels :O. Well done to u.
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spoli21
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#26
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#26
(Original post by fuuji)
Can you post some examples of one of these non elite banks that have bunches of people from nottingham arts doing FO roles? Where are these horrible banks that don't really care about their grads? I've interviewed at probably 20 banks and worked at 2 and the ACs always have the same schools: Oxbridge, LSE, warick, Imperial and then a bunch of kids from the european businesses schools, boconni, INSEAD and HEC.

To answer the OPs question go to a target uni ideally LSE and Oxbridge, in your 2nd year apply to every single bank you can, I did 47 applications. Be confident and likable in your interviews, most UK interviewers for IB are fit based. You really don't need to be that smart for IB they're not going to ask you about your degree they couldn't care less, they want someone that they can work with and who is driven. Take an accounting course in your first year, this is something I thought was great about my uni nearly everyone has to do basic accounting in first year. It's really important for the projects in assessment centres because you'll inevitably need to know what EBITDA or FCF is. Ideally have something special about you on your CV that sticks out. I had that I ran a business in my A levels that had a six figure revenue and paid for my university, firms like stuff that shows motivation.

A lot of people on this forum make out that getting into banking is much harder then it is. You don't need a first, just a 2.1. They don't care if you did imperial maths vs oxford econ, either will get you an interview. Unless its something exceptional they probably don't care about your ECs unless they have similar interests. They just want people who they like who really want to do the work.
You founded a business and turned it into making six figure revenue before turning 18? and you just let it go? If its true, I would like to know more.

What was/is the business about?
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fuuji
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#27
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#27
(Original post by iPixelBlue)
This is actually really informative. During my second year at Imperial maths, I will defo make sure to apply to as many banks as possible.

and i must say wow! 6 figure takings during A-levels :O. Well done to u.
I don't think imperial offers any accounting outside of their Msc accounting with finance, but really do learn some basic financial accounting it's so important, this is the book I used eter Atrill and Eddi Mclaney Financial Accounting for Decision Makers. In your assessment centres you'll always get some stupid task like analyse these 3 companies and say, which you would buy or sell and without basic accounting skills you'll have no idea which metrics are meaningful. These are quite often group exercises, when I got asked that questions there were 2 kids from LSE who had to take accounting in first year and 2 econ students from oxbridge and the ones from oxbridge were useless.
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fuuji
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#28
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#28
(Original post by spoli21)
You founded a business and turned it into making six figure revenue before turning 18? and you just let it go? If its true, I would like to know more.

What was/is the business about?
OK basically I went to bicester village, which is an outlet centre near oxford when I was 15 before going to sixth form because I liked clothes and wanted a nice bag. Noticed stuff was marked down really cheap way cheaper then I saw it online. Didn't have enough money to buy expensive stuff so I bought a bunch of underwear from gieves and hawkes and some keychains and money clips from dunhill. Sold that for a couple hundred quid online. Went back and bought more expensive **** until I had more and more money. Highlight was going to Burberry and finding made in England trench coats marked down from like 1.5k to 49 quid. Bought like 20 of those and sold them for nearly 10k. Did this most weekends, would occasionally go to NJ and do it there. Best thing was finding loads of tom ford leather jackets marked something like 97% off from 5k as well as a bunch of knit wear for like $30 each. Sold those for an obscene amount of money. Continued doing this until the year after the financial crisis when all the luxury brands stopped making so many clothes that loads of them would make it to outlet centres. Wasn't really a business, just me selling clothes online, but it was very profitable and made A levels much more fun. There was also no risk really. I'm far too risk adverse to actually be an entrepreneur.
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gr8wizard10
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#29
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#29
(Original post by iPixelBlue)
This is actually really informative. During my second year at Imperial maths, I will defo make sure to apply to as many banks as possible. and i must say wow! 6 figure takings during A-levels :O. Well done to u.
grind starts in 1st year. Apply to spring week programmes
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iPixelBlue
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Abdul-Karim)
grind starts in 1st year. Apply to spring week programmes
cool
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Reflektor15
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#31
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#31
(Original post by iPixelBlue)
true, i agree eg. a geography degree would be sufficient for trading etc. But if you want to go to a TOP bank then you should maximise your chances. Those subjects give you a better chance (assuming you get a 1st or high 2:1 from those unis i mentioned), everything else held constant.

Non-elite banks would be more okay with an arts degree from Nottingham/Southampton etc.
Oh really? What experience do you base that comment on?

To be a good trader you need a lot more than a geography degree these days. Start with a math/eng/finance degree at a minimum.
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William Pitt
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Inflintude)
Hello everyone,

I'm 17 years old studying Economics, Maths and German for my A-levels, getting straight A's in my tests and I've always wanted to be an Investment Banker.
I've have been watching the stock markets and looking how other top bankers made their millions to live the luxury life. I've heard it's hard to get into the Investment Banking field and not many people can become a millionaire.
My dad is a banker for HSBC and he's been telling me where he went wrong so I don't have to do the same mistakes. He told me about getting an MBA and to keep pushing myself and work hard.

Any other advice would be great,
Thanks.

You have your banker dad - that's an asset the majority of people do not have and a huge advantage for you.

I study PPE at Oxford so I can comment on the academic side of your path to IB. Straight A's at A levels do not really mean anything. If you want to go to a good university you need straight A's, and tens of thousands of young people in the UK get them each year (plus abroad students such as myself). Very few of them ever get to be in the IB.

So keep up straight A's, it's not like you have any other choice. Apply for the best possible institution: Oxbridge/ICL/UCL/LSE are your top choices, preferably pure Economics for undergraduate and a good financial-service related masters degree. You also need a high 2:1 at undergraduate, preferably a 1st class degree. If do not get 2:1 your chances of going into IB are very low, even if you graduate from the aforementioned institutions.

Internships: do them as soon as you arrive at university.

So it's hard work throughout your life. Getting A's at A levels is only the start. There are much more challenging obstacles ahead.
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fuuji
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Reflektor15)
Oh really? What experience do you base that comment on?

To be a good trader you need a lot more than a geography degree these days. Start with a math/eng/finance degree at a minimum.
I know a 3 traders at goldman with geography, accounting and politics degrees. The one doing politics trades FX derivatives, which is apparently one of the more "quant" desks. Your not going to be doing stochastic calculus on the job, it's GCSE maths at most. No ones asking you to derive black scholes from first principles in your interview, traders aren't front office quants they'll ask you what is 72x54 or how many bricks are used in the UK to build new houses every year or something like that. I wouldn't exactly place a finance degree in the same echelons is math or engineering with regards to how quant it is. Finance is piss.
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Noble.
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#34
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#34
(Original post by fuuji)
I know a 3 traders at goldman with geography, accounting and politics degrees. The one doing politics trades FX derivatives, which is apparently one of the more "quant" desks. Your not going to be doing stochastic calculus on the job, it's GCSE maths at most. No ones asking you to derive black scholes from first principles in your interview, traders aren't front office quants they'll ask you what is 72x54 or how many bricks are used in the UK to build new houses every year or something like that. I wouldn't exactly place a finance degree in the same echelons is math or engineering with regards to how quant it is. Finance is piss.
I interviewed with Goldman's FX Options desk recently and got interviewed by a guy who essentially jumped around Cambridge, Oxford and Imperial doing his undergrad/postgrad/PhD and I wish I only got asked market sizing questions and "What is 72x54?"
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fuuji
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(Original post by Noble.)
I interviewed with Goldman's FX Options desk recently and got interviewed by a guy who essentially jumped around Cambridge, Oxford and Imperial doing his undergrad/postgrad/PhD and I wish I only got asked market sizing questions and "What is 72x54?"
Out of interest what did you get asked? The only really awful question i've heard of anyone getting asked is "you have 100 light bulbs switched off, you flip them all on, then every 2nd switch, 3rd switch until every 100th switch" which was CS credit derivatives.
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Noble.
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#36
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#36
(Original post by fuuji)
Out of interest what did you get asked? The only really awful question i've heard of anyone getting asked is "you have 100 light bulbs switched off, you flip them all on, then every 2nd switch, 3rd switch until every 100th switch" which was CS credit derivatives.
Nah, I would've liked that - quant brainteasers are one of my stronger areas

I got asked things like "If you're long a deep in the money call/put what happens to delta as the market moves (in both directions), how is it affected differently if the price of the underlying moves more substantially in one direction or the other? What does gamma tell you in these situations?" Then there was a lot on the practicalities of options trading, how you would hedge in certain situations, how you would re-hedge after some movement.

Then he realised I took the same finance module as him when he was at Oxford and the discussion went onto the significance of Feynman-Kac, Self-financing replicating portfolios and whether I remembered the pricing formulas for call/put options, why on a non-dividend paying asset an American call has the same value as a European call/why a rational investor wouldn't exercise an American call prior to maturity.
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fuuji
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#37
(Original post by Noble.)
Nah, I would've liked that - quant brainteasers are one of my stronger areas

I got asked things like "If you're long a deep in the money call/put what happens to delta as the market moves (in both directions), how is it affected differently if the price of the underlying moves more substantially in one direction or the other? What does gamma tell you in these situations?" Then there was a lot on the practicalities of options trading, how you would hedge in certain situations, how you would re-hedge after some movement.

Then he realised I took the same finance module as him when he was at Oxford and the discussion went onto the significance of Feynman-Kac, Self-financing replicating portfolios and whether I remembered the pricing formulas for call/put options, why on a non-dividend paying asset an American call has the same value as a European call/why a rational investor wouldn't exercise an American call prior to maturity.
Do you have your MFE or master of computational finance from Oxford? Can't imagine they'd ask this kind of stuff to anyone without a masters in finance. I didn't cover any of that except the option stuff in your 2nd paragraph doing finance courses at LSE.
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Noble.
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(Original post by fuuji)
Do you have your MFE or master of computational finance from Oxford? Can't imagine they'd ask this kind of stuff to anyone without a masters in finance. I didn't cover any of that except the option stuff in your 2nd paragraph doing finance courses at LSE.
No, all I did was the mathematical models of financial derivatives third year course (16 lectures) which is approached in such a mathematical, and non-practical way, that it skims over the fact that when you delta-hedge you're no longer trading on the movement of the underlying asset price, but on the volatility. :lol:

I should probably point out that this was for an off-cycle, and HR later told me that the standard required was much higher than their summer programme and everyone else the team interviewed pretty much had previous experience sitting on an options trading desk (and went on to ask why I didn't apply for their summer programme - I got binned without a first round :rolleyes:)
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Hody421
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Can you get a spring week/summer internship with a nothing-CV?
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fuuji
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(Original post by Hody421)
Can you get a spring week/summer internship with a nothing-CV?
What do you mean a nothing CV? If all you have is your university and grades you're not getting interviewed. You also don't just apply with a CV, you have to answer a bunch of competency questions.
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