whats more evil corrupt capitalism or religion Watch

tengentoppa
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#21
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#21
(Original post by StrangeBanana)
Is that relevant?
Yes, something which cannot be as easily rectified is a greater evil. A thorn which can easily be removed does less damage than one which is deeply embedded.
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StrangeBanana
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#22
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#22
(Original post by tengentoppa)
Yes, something which cannot be as easily rectified is a greater evil. A thorn which can easily be removed does less damage than one which is deeply embedded.
Hmm, I don't agree. Just because it's difficult to rectify doesn't mean it's a fundamentally more evil thing. More damaging, yes, as it's given more time to do its damage. Isn't evil is better indicated by damage-done/time, as opposed to just damage-done?
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crysostom
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#23
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#23
(Original post by zippity.doodah)
individual liberty disgusts you?
Individual liberty should not be confined to capitalism. Otherwise there's no Liberty at all.


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zippity.doodah
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#24
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#24
(Original post by crysostom)
Individual liberty should not be confined to capitalism. That would defeat the point.


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not all individual liberties are capitalism-based, but capitalism is a form of individual liberty though, isn't it? why would you hate capitalism while appreciating the principles of individual freedom which conforms to capitalism's basic principles
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StrangeBanana
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#25
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#25
(Original post by tengentoppa)
Yes, something which cannot be as easily rectified is a greater evil. A thorn which can easily be removed does less damage than one which is deeply embedded.
Just to give an (unpleasant) example to illustrate the previous point: compare "regular" murder, of citizens by citizens, to government-orchestrated mass-murder (e.g. genocide). The former has been around practically forever, and is incredibly difficult to root out entirely. The latter is far rarer, and is - relatively - much easier to prevent. But surely genocide is more evil than the murder of private citizens by each-other?
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tengentoppa
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#26
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#26
(Original post by StrangeBanana)
Hmm, I don't agree. Just because it's difficult to rectify doesn't mean it's a fundamentally more evil thing. More damaging, yes, as it's given more time to do its damage. Isn't evil is better indicated by damage-done/time, as opposed to just damage-done?
Even if we accept that, there's no indication that religion has been less harmful over the last 1000 years than capitalist corruption. Capitalism after all, is a newer concept than religion.
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StrangeBanana
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#27
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#27
(Original post by tengentoppa)
Even if we accept that, there's no indication that religion has been less harmful over the last 1000 years than capitalist corruption. Capitalism after all, is a newer concept than religion.
Exactly, it hasn't had as much time as religion to "be harmful".

By damage-done/time, I meant the rate at which damage is being done. So something like the Holocaust, which did an extraordinary amount of harm in a relatively short period, would be more evil than, say, a racist legal system, which does much less damage over the same length of time.
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Serine Soul
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#28
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#28
(Original post by zippity.doodah)
individual liberty disgusts you?
Greed isn't liberty though
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zippity.doodah
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#29
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#29
(Original post by enaayrah)
Greed isn't liberty though
what are you talking about? liberty means you can do whatever you want without coercing others. if you want to be greedy in this society, surely that's your right? why not? how not? I could be giving a lot of my money to charity right now but I'm greedy so I don't (like most people) - am I a criminal?
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Dracul
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#30
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#30
(Original post by enaayrah)
Greed isn't liberty though
Liberty gives the right and freedom to be greedy
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Serine Soul
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#31
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#31
(Original post by zippity.doodah)
what are you talking about? liberty means you can do whatever you want without coercing others. if you want to be greedy in this society, surely that's your right? why not? how not? I could be giving a lot of my money to charity right now but I'm greedy so I don't (like most people) - am I a criminal?

(Original post by Dracul)
Liberty gives the right and freedom to be greedy
But what about the liberty of the people that are used to fulfil that greed?
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Dracul
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#32
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#32
(Original post by enaayrah)
But what about the liberty of the people that are used to fulfil that greed?
Those people have the liberty to refuse and resist being exploited if they cared to.
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zippity.doodah
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#33
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#33
(Original post by enaayrah)
But what about the liberty of the people that are used to fulfil that greed?
who are you referring to? poor people? freedom of contract (capitalism) means that both parties, both the employer and the employee, or the consumer and the merchant, have to get mutual consent to a deal or a contract. there is no principle exploitation. only rational agents who know what is in their best interests, and a government shouldn't undermine the intelligence of contractors, either poor or rich.
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Serine Soul
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Dracul)
Those people have the liberty to refuse and resist being exploited if they cared to.
Not sure I agree.

I doubt they're able to refuse as they need to make a living
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Dracul
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#35
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#35
(Original post by enaayrah)
Not sure I agree.

I doubt they're able to refuse as they need to make a living
They still have the liberty to refuse and start their own business, work for somebody better or go live alone in a cave somewhere. They're not enslaved.
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al_94
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#36
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#36
It's not the ideology but the people that are unjust in both capitalism and religion.
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crysostom
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#37
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#37
(Original post by zippity.doodah)
not all individual liberties are capitalism-based, but capitalism is a form of individual liberty though, isn't it? why would you hate capitalism while appreciating the principles of individual freedom which conforms to capitalism's basic principles
I never said that any liberty was capitalism based, quite the opposite. I just observed that you were speaking as if capitalism and individual liberty are one and the same. Evidently (and thankfully) you more or less think otherwise.

But liberty by it's very nature should not and does not conform to anything. It simply happens to fall hand in hand with capitalism on many fronts. But not all. They are altogether separate. If anything capitalism was designed to (and does) condone and encourage many individual liberties - to conform to liberty, but it does not achieve this fully, either deliberately or just in itself. It has consequences and restricts liberty for, and punishes those who won't or who are simply unable to conform to it. It refuses to help those who lack, or are simply unable to earn enough money, even through no fault of their own. The rich benefit more.

Although as I keep saying I cannot think of a better alternative to capitalism. So I cannot hate it. But I cannot say that it is morally good. I feel that a system that requires money and greed to work (and not well at that) cannot be morally good. Yet I concede that a system not based on money and greed will not work at all.




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JohnPaul_
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#38
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#38
Socialism and anti-theism....

Stalin, pol pot, hitler, mao... Over 120 million people perhaps there?

I'm an atheist btw before anyone gives me the childish and basic arguments against 'but stalin wasn't' 'hitler in mein kamp....'

Do your own research and examine the morality of what led them to do the things they did.

Capitalism alleviates poverty.


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BefuddledPenguin
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#39
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#39
In many cases religion is capitalism, there is no evil global conglomerate more evil and malicious than the catholic church.

Taking everything into account, I'd definitely say that religion is the greater evil.
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Gnomes&Knights
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#40
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#40
(Original post by zippity.doodah)
individual liberty disgusts you?
http://upliftconnect.com/capitalism-...-incompatible/
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