What do you think about Marine Le Pen? Watch

username1504459
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#21
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#21
(Original post by zgb1)
Actually FN is not more anti-semitic. It used to beduring Jean-Marine reign but now it is more like UKIP.
There still are neo-nazis in the party...
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sdotd
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#22
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#22
She's a very good speaker and is not afraid to tell the truth. Hope she carries on the good work
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username1504459
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#23
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#23
(Original post by sdotd)
She's a very good speaker and is not afraid to tell the truth. Hope she carries on the good work
She'll never be présidente though
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WokSz
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#24
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#24
The FN has undergone significant reform in the past few years under Marine le Pen as opposed to her Father, who was a jaded, ignorant man. Marine does not deny that mass immigration has had a detrimental effect on French society and neither of the other two major parties in France (Socialists and UMP) are willing to address this issue. There's two things that really bother me about France today:

a) Mentioning immigration reform remains taboo and is automatically linked with anti-semitic or anti-immigration views.
b) A large proportion of the French youth, whose parents were immigrants refer to themselves as the nationality of their parents rather than as French and as such think of immigration reform as an attack on them. As the son of two immigrants to a Western European nation, I think first of the nation where I was born and then of my heritage. When I do this, the FN's policies don't seem all too bad.
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WokSz
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#25
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#25
(Original post by jedanselemyia)
There still are neo-nazis in the party...
That's irrelevant. There are communists in the Labour party but people don't complain about it. The problem is not with nationalist parties but with the fact that the majority of Western European nations have only a few parties that actually stand a chance of winning an election. This is why parties like the FN and UKIP are actually good for keeping the major parties in check.
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tazza ma razza
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#26
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#26
Bloody ruthless!
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username1504459
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#27
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#27
(Original post by WokSz)
The FN has undergone significant reform in the past few years under Marine le Pen as opposed to her Father, who was a jaded, ignorant man. Marine does not deny that mass immigration has had a detrimental effect on French society and neither of the other two major parties in France (Socialists and UMP) are willing to address this issue. There's two things that really bother me about France today:a) Mentioning immigration reform remains taboo and is automatically linked with anti-semitic or anti-immigration views.b) A large proportion of the French youth, whose parents were immigrants refer to themselves as the nationality of their parents rather than as French and as such think of immigration reform as an attack on them. As the son of two immigrants to a Western European nation, I think first of the nation where I was born and then of my heritage. When I do this, the FN's policies don't seem all too bad.
Interesting comment.
Shouldn't France ask itself why French youth of immigrant origin doesn't identify itself as French sometimes?
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WokSz
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#28
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#28
(Original post by jedanselemyia)
Interesting comment.
Shouldn't France ask itself why French youth of immigrant origin doesn't identify itself as French sometimes?
Surely, providing free education, healthcare, security and jobs is enough of an excuse to at least remotely feel 'French'. The youth in France, and the Maghrébins especially, have made outrageous claims in the media about French society not giving them equal rights and opportunity. I fail to agree with this statement. Education remains on the whole free in France as does healthcare. The economy, pre-financial crisis, was relatively strong with job opportunities good. Are you suggesting that these conditions are not good enough to actually make your life better?

The fact of the matter is that failing to integrate yourself completely into a culture is not only to the detriment of the hosting country but also to the immigrant. That is not to say that conditions are ideal, but very few things are. By staying cocooned in your 'shell' and not making an effort, we're not going to get anywhere and populist right-wing parties are just going to get more popular. One doesn't need to look far but the last EU elections to see how popular these nationalist parties have become.
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PowelliteScum :)
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#29
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#29
She'll do for France.
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PowelliteScum :)
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#30
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#30
(Original post by jedanselemyia)
Interesting comment.
Shouldn't France ask itself why French youth of immigrant origin doesn't identify itself as French sometimes?
Because non-European immigrants don't like to assimilate.
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username1504459
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#31
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#31
(Original post by WokSz)
Surely, providing free education, healthcare, security and jobs is enough of an excuse to at least remotely feel 'French'. The youth in France, and the Maghrébins especially, have made outrageous claims in the media about French society not giving them equal rights and opportunity. I fail to agree with this statement. Education remains on the whole free in France as does healthcare. The economy, pre-financial crisis, was relatively strong with job opportunities good. Are you suggesting that these conditions are not good enough to actually make your life better?The fact of the matter is that failing to integrate yourself completely into a culture is not only to the detriment of the hosting country but also to the immigrant. That is not to say that conditions are ideal, but very few things are. By staying cocooned in your 'shell' and not making an effort, we're not going to get anywhere and populist right-wing parties are just going to get more popular. One doesn't need to look far but the last EU elections to see how popular these nationalist parties have become.
Pff, are you even French? Do you how it is to be a young Arab person in this country, especially a boy? Arab people suffer more of racism than Black people in France. They suffer discrimination in work search (with men even changing their Arab names to French names like Thomas to get a job), they are 8 more times likely to get a contrôle au faciès by the police, the media likes to all portray them as illiterate thugs...
I've done an extended research project on a ghetto called La Villeneuve, which was badly portrayed by France 2 in a documentary. I went there with some friends to interview the people that lived there (they were from Arab, Italian and African background) to talk about the situation. Basically, in the 90s or so, the city council cut all the funding and made poor families move in the council houses

During Sarkozy's tenure there was this national "debate" on national identity. Needless to say, politicians from the right and far right started to say things like "i don't want young Arabs who speak verlan"...
Plus, we never talk about minorities in French history class, even though we're an integral part of it! It's not surprising that we sometimes don't identify as French...
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WokSz
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#32
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#32
(Original post by jedanselemyia)
Pff, are you even French? Do you how it is to be a young Arab person in this country, especially a boy?
I don't need to be French to know exactly what it's like to grow up there. Are you suggesting that because I'm not French I can't be aware enough to fully understand the situation. Are you suggesting that a white, native European cannot understand the challenges faced by immigrants. If so, I recommend you move on from this self-victimisation to a more pragmatic and rational outlook. My personal experiences as a racial minority growing up in Western Europe are sufficient to know that there is no excuse to be complacent about the situation we are in today. And trust me when I say this, I know very well the challenges of a young male of colour growing up in Europe without much money. I am proud to be European and will be until the day I die. And just to make a point: I have grown up with the racaille culture my whole life and rest assured, these people are not victims anymore. I don't want you to think that I have never experienced racism nor that discrimination isn't present in Europe. Of course, it is! But I'm really frustrated when I see young French men from immigrants backgrounds complaining that they have been disrespected by the society in which they live. Respect is earned.

(Original post by jedanselemyia)
I've done an extended research project on a ghetto called La Villeneuve, which was badly portrayed by France 2 in a documentary. I went there with some friends to interview the people that lived there (they were from Arab, Italian and African background) to talk about the situation. Basically, in the 90s or so, the city council cut all the funding and made poor families move in the council houses
I'm sorry but your 'extended project' is neither a statistical analysis nor a sociological experiment with extensive analyses on the integration issues in France. Simply listening to a few 'youths' talk about their experiences does not constitute a logical conclusion. I am not discrediting it, but I don't feel it's a valid analysis. Have a look at this: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-603588.html

(Original post by jedanselemyia)
During Sarkozy's tenure there was this national "debate" on national identity. Needless to say, politicians from the right and far right started to say things like "i don't want young Arabs who speak verlan"...
Plus, we never talk about minorities in French history class, even though we're an integral part of it! It's not surprising that we sometimes don't identify as French...
I'm not going to bother answering this in detail as I've already mentioned it before: stop thinking of yourself as a minority first. You are French and the history you learn in class is YOUR history as much as it is the natives'.
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Chi019
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#33
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#33
(Original post by whorace)
Being opposed to Marine Le Pen means I want an Islamic state? Jesus the extremism on here is unbelievable.
Well if you are opposed to France becoming an Islamic State then, unpalatable as Le Pen may be, her party is the only option. Think it through – which other politicians would take any steps to prevent that outcome?
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WokSz
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Chi019)
Well if you are opposed to France becoming an Islamic State then, unpalatable as Le Pen may be, her party is the only option. Think it through – which other politicians would take any steps to prevent that outcome?
Even the UMP has become a somewhat pathetic attempt at defending conservative values.
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Chi019
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#35
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#35
A conservative journalist once astutely remarked that any institution that is not explicitly conservative inevitably turns liberal over time. The same is true, a fortiori, for an entire nation. Lawrence Auster has pointed out that most mainstream parties now have accepted the values of liberalism, namely we must be tolerant and inclusive of everyone and that the diverse society is the only moral and acceptable society. That liberal belief means the West is ultimately going to be transformed.
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