How would you feel if your son was the co-pilot that crashed the plane? Watch

Lucasium
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ChaoticButterfly
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#22
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(Original post by Novascope)
No it's not... Because that's ASSUMING.

Someone actually diagnosed with something isn't assuming.

Would you let a pedophile be a nursery nurse? No.
So people with mental health problems are comparable to criminals (assuming you mean a person convicted of carrying out pedophilia acts) now?
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Novascope
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
So people with mental health problems are comparable to criminals (assuming you mean a person convicted of carrying out pedophilia acts) now?
Seriously?

I used that as an example that you cannot put certain people at risks without ensuring that they've had the correct amount of treatment/help before they go onto a job... Ugh.
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ngb9320
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#24
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So now you are saying it's ok for someone with mental issues to have a job with responsibility as long as they are getting the right treatment?
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Viva Emptiness
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A lot of ill-thought out opinions on this thread. The simple fact is that millions of people with depression do in fact have jobs. Ones they are successful in. Very, very few people with mental ill-health then go on to murder people in the 100's because of it.

Perhaps instead of telling people they can't "have jobs with responsibility", we should try and lessen the stigma attached to "admitting" you have depression and other MH issues, for didn't the police find a ripped up sick note from the Doctor for that very day in his house? If he'd felt comfortable enough to show his employers, seek help etc. this might have had a different outcome.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Novascope)
Seriously?

I used that as an example that you cannot put certain people at risks without ensuring that they've had the correct amount of treatment/help before they go onto a job... Ugh.
The reason you don't let a convicted pedophile who has a history of committing pedophilic acts work with children is that there is a risk it could happen again. That is reasonable. Plus if you commit a crime like that it is fair that it will effect the rest of your life.

By comparing mental health to this example you are saying people with things such as depression can not be trusted in positions of responsibility over other people's lives ever. Which is unfair and shows a lack of understanding of mental health problems. Just because you suffer from depression does not mean you have to want to kill yourself and nor does having suicidal thoughts mean you have to want to take other people out with you.

Sure to is sensible to have checks for certain kinds and variations of mental health problems that may lead to a risk in that person line of work but that does not mean you can blank out everyone who has any kind of depression or metal illness from having any kind of responsibility.
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BioStudentx
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Why couldn't he just kill himself normally instead of taking 150 people with him.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Viva Emptiness)
A lot of ill-thought out opinions on this thread. The simple fact is that millions of people with depression do in fact have jobs. Ones they are successful in. Very, very few people with mental ill-health then go on to murder people in the 100's because of it.

Perhaps instead of telling people they can't "have jobs with responsibility", we should try and lessen the stigma attached to "admitting" you have depression and other MH issues, for didn't the police find a ripped up sick note from the Doctor for that very day in his house? If he'd felt comfortable enough to show his employers, seek help etc. this might have had a different outcome.
Actually there was a shrink on the news today talking about how pilots very rarely admit to having depression never mind suicidal thoughts due to the nature of their job.
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Viva Emptiness
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Actually there was a shrink on the news today talking about how pilots very rarely admit to having depression never mind suicidal thoughts due to the nature of their job.
Well then, that's obviously a glaring issue that needs addressing.
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Novascope
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#30
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
The reason you don't let a convicted pedophile who has a history of committing pedophilic acts work with children is that there is a risk it could happen again. That is reasonable. Plus if you commit a crime like that it is fair that it will effect the rest of your life.

By comparing mental health to this example you are saying people with things such as depression can not be trusted in positions of responsibility over other people's lives ever. Which is unfair and shows a lack of understanding of mental health problems. Just because you suffer from depression does not mean you have to want to kill yourself and nor does having suicidal thoughts mean you have to want to take other people out with you.

Sure to is sensible to have checks for certain kinds and variations of mental health problems that may lead to a risk in that person line of work but that does not mean you can blank out everyone who has any kind of depression or metal illness from having any kind of responsibility.

The reason I used that as an example was to let that person know how silly it was of them to think that it's insulting to say a person with mental illnesses shouldn't have a job with such great responsibility.

"By comparing mental health to this example you are saying people with things such as depression can not be trusted in positions of responsibility over other people's lives ever. Which is unfair and shows a lack of understanding of mental health problems."

Clearly you didn't see me say that they should be treated first...

I doubt anyone would want to be in a situation where their lives were in the hands of someone who hadn't been treated.

**Also, I saw your reply to another comment- I know that there are people out there with jobs who have mental illnesses that do veyr well, but I'm pretty sure they are receiving help too. In this case the pilot wasn't...
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CurlyBen
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#31
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(Original post by Novascope)
That's not insulting at all that's true. Why give such a responsible job to someone with mental health problems? That can cause even bigger problems. They should be receiving help instead, not taking other's lives into their hands. You've got to hire the right people for the right jobs. I don't think anyone's trying to make fun of mental health problems.
It's not really a decision that should be made by the employers, it's really the responsibility of the authority issuing the medical. That way a single standard can be maintained, and pilots don't have to worry as much that they will be grounded/fired if they discuss their problems whilst working.

Interesting that you should mention hiring the 'right' people. Virtually the only way to become a professional pilot is to take a huge financial gamble and take out massive loans to cover the cost of training, with no guarantee whatsoever of getting a job at the end of it!
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Novascope)


I doubt anyone would want to be in a situation where their lives were in the hands of someone who hadn't been treated.

**Also, I saw your reply to another comment- I know that there are people out there with jobs who have mental illnesses that do veyr well, but I'm pretty sure they are receiving help too. In this case the pilot wasn't...
There will be plenty of people with depression who aren't even on 'the list' since they haven't gotten help.

I'm not saying you're a bad person or anything, people just aren't thinking enough about it or don't have a great understanding of mental health or realize just how many otherwise perfectibility functioning people have problems.
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CurlyBen
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(Original post by Viva Emptiness)
Well then, that's obviously a glaring issue that needs addressing.
The problem is how do you address it - the reason pilots are generally reluctant to discuss almost any medical issue is that it could jeopardise their medical. Lose the medical, lose the job... potentially before you've even earned enough to cover the cost of your training, not to mention that to become a pilot these days you need to be really passionate about wanting to do it.
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Novascope
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#34
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
There will be plenty of people with depression who aren't even on 'the list' since they haven't gotten help.

I'm not saying you're a bad person or anything, people just aren't thinking enough about it or don't have a great understanding of mental health or realize just how many otherwise perfectibility functioning people have problems.
I understand what you're saying, but this story really upset me and I just wish that maybe something was done to ensure that any mental illnesses are identified in a person going up for a big job, and are treated before they actually start working.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Novascope)
I understand what you're saying, but this story really upset me and I just wish that maybe something was done to ensure that any mental illnesses are identified in a person going up for a big job, and are treated before they actually start working.
Ye it is a completely unnecessary and tragic waste of human life
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Novascope
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#36
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Ye it is a completely unnecessary and tragic waste of human life
Ah well, all we can do is learn from this and hopefully prevent it from ever happening again...
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Dalek1099
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
The reason you don't let a convicted pedophile who has a history of committing pedophilic acts work with children is that there is a risk it could happen again. That is reasonable. Plus if you commit a crime like that it is fair that it will effect the rest of your life.

By comparing mental health to this example you are saying people with things such as depression can not be trusted in positions of responsibility over other people's lives ever. Which is unfair and shows a lack of understanding of mental health problems. Just because you suffer from depression does not mean you have to want to kill yourself and nor does having suicidal thoughts mean you have to want to take other people out with you.

Sure to is sensible to have checks for certain kinds and variations of mental health problems that may lead to a risk in that person line of work but that does not mean you can blank out everyone who has any kind of depression or metal illness from having any kind of responsibility.
The difference is that a pilot has 150 people who have their lives in his hand compared to the fact a pedophile at worst might rape a few children hardly even comparable and thats why we need the strongest and fittest both mentally and physically someone who has had a mental illness in the past is at risk(we shouldn't really be treating them as criminals because the sort of acts that could put a plane in jeopardy are really a result of a mental illness).

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...d-study-sweden

The article shows that having depression puts you at risk this man had severe depression that resulted in ending up in hospital.

http://www.acnp.org/asset.axd?id=e20...7-6995db325384

"Angst (15), reporting on a 10-follow of patients in the Zurich
study, found that only 25% of patients had only a single
episode of depression."

So people who have depression have a 75% chance of it recurring and someone being depressed(especially enough to cause hospital visits) are not suitable to fly a plane there are all sorts of possibilities like not being bothered to fly or concentrate enough or suicidal thoughts which can put hundreds of people at risk.
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Dalek1099
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#38
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(Original post by CurlyBen)
The problem is how do you address it - the reason pilots are generally reluctant to discuss almost any medical issue is that it could jeopardise their medical. Lose the medical, lose the job... potentially before you've even earned enough to cover the cost of your training, not to mention that to become a pilot these days you need to be really passionate about wanting to do it.
This makes those pilots immoral as any medical issue means they could be putting hundreds of people at risk if they have a problem while piloting an areoplane.Surely pilots that hide things from the medical could be charged under recklessness I think enforcing prison sentences for pilots, who are found to have hid medical issues, could force people to reveal everything in their medicals.I can't think of more selfish acts than risking hundreds of lives simply because this is the career you want and financial issues.
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Dalek1099
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#39
(Original post by Novascope)
I understand what you're saying, but this story really upset me and I just wish that maybe something was done to ensure that any mental illnesses are identified in a person going up for a big job, and are treated before they actually start working.
I don't think this is such a good idea mental illnesses have a high rate of recurrence and thus by employing someone, who has had a serious mental illness, you are endangering hundreds of people.A lot of mental illnesses are highly heritable and thus the weaknesses causing them are in the genes so it isn't so easy to cure as people like to think.
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a10
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(Original post by Dalek1099)
This makes those pilots immoral as any medical issue means they could be putting hundreds of people at risk if they have a problem while piloting an areoplane.Surely pilots that hide things from the medical could be charged under recklessness I think enforcing prison sentences for pilots, who are found to have hid medical issues, could force people to reveal everything in their medicals.I can't think of more selfish acts than risking hundreds of lives simply because this is the career you want and financial issues.

lol i find it funny how you're summarising the reasons why he did what he did in two points. They are far more factors involved which none of us would have experienced other than him.

It's very easy to say how could he have done this and that just because of this but you're forgetting he is a human being...we will never know how he felt. His depression might have gotten to the point were it was so severe he ended up deciding to end his own life and others.
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