Do you think Stalin was really a dictator? Watch

poohat
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#21
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#21
(Original post by ModYom)
Remind me again, just where were the gas chambers in the Soviet Union?
From your next post I can see you are one of the despicable leftists/apologists under discussion so I realise you have a huge ideological stake in defending Stalin, however the point is that it doesnt matter whether people were killed using gas chambers or deliberate famine. Genocide is still genocide.
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ModYom
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#22
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#22
So why aren't you complaining about all the genocide committed by the West, or is that somehow acceptable?
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felamaslen
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#23
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#23
(Original post by ModYom)
If you cannot tell the difference between 'alliance' and 'non-aggression pact' then you have no place in this debate.
Within the context of a Europe, and world, at war, there is no practical difference. If Russia vows not to hit Germany, then Russia has declared war on the UK. There is no in between.
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felamaslen
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#24
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#24
(Original post by ModYom)
You could just as easily be talking about the USA or colonial Britain.

Let's see

1 million plus murdered in Vietnam by Nixon, Kennedy, Johnson
1 million in Iraq by Bush
Countless more all around the globe with support for dictators , eg: Pinochet

Imperialism? That's part of Western capitalist ideology, the foundation in fact.

Anti-freedom - yep, that's a capitalist trait too - try handing out FREE food in the streets, see how long before the cops pick u up.
The US did not murder anything like a million in Iraq or Vietnam. Maybe it murdered a million in WW2, but that's a very high estimate. Jihadists may well have murdered a million in Iraq. Commies murdered well over a million in Vietnam and Cambodia.

Britain murdered millions if you count colonial famines. But I'm not defending colonialism. Also famines caused indirectly by colonialism are hardly as directly evil as the actual murder through gulags or Nazi extermination camps.

Yes, the Cold war involved support for anti-commie dictators. Maybe necessary, maybe not. It wasn't an ideological thing.

Imperialism is not a product of the West. It has existed since the dawn of civilisation. It can have good and bad aspects to it. When a brutally anti-freedom ideology such as Communism or Fascism is being pushed, then it is obviously monstrous.

Handing out free food is something many people do. It is called charity. Notice that police do not arrest charitable organisations, because charity is not a crime in a capitalist economy. What are you on about?
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ModYom
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#25
(Original post by felamaslen)
Within the context of a Europe, and world, at war, there is no practical difference. If Russia vows not to hit Germany, then Russia has declared war on the UK. There is no in between.
So how about all the other countries in the World at that time, you know, the ones that also vowed not to hit Germany - were they at war with the UK as well?:rolleyes:


and you do realise, that in the current period, the UK has vowed not to hit Russia - does that mean we are at war with the Ukraine?

seriously, you need to brush up on your ideas a little........
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lucaf
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#26
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#26
(Original post by ModYom)
Gay marriage does not, and never can exist - it's merely a gimmick.

Stalin saw the idea for what it was - dilettante western liberalism, so of course, this idiotic sham was not allowed in SU or Cuba.
Gay marriage does exist. You may not agree with it, but thats irrelevant. But yeah, if you find mass murder more acceptable than people having their love and commitment officially recognized that says a hell of a lot about you.
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ModYom
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#27
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#27
(Original post by felamaslen)
The US did not murder anything like a million in Iraq or Vietnam.
so what is the acceptable amount a government can murder then? How about 500,000 or what about 200,000 - that's ok is it?
Also famines caused indirectly by colonialism are hardly as directly evil as the actual murder through gulags or Nazi extermination camps.
aren't they - I'm sure the victims will agree with you on that one, not.
Yes, the Cold war involved support for anti-commie dictators. Maybe necessary, maybe not. It wasn't an ideological thing.
Are you ****ing serious! 'the cold war wasn't ideological' ha ha ha
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ModYom
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#28
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#28
(Original post by felamaslen)
Handing out free food is something many people do. It is called charity. Notice that police do not arrest charitable organisations, because charity is not a crime in a capitalist economy. What are you on about?
Try standing outside a supermarket handing out free food on a regular basis - guess what happens! Opposing the capitalist system in this way will get you arrested. That's freedom? yeah right
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ModYom
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#29
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#29
(Original post by lucaf)
Gay marriage does exist. You may not agree with it, but thats irrelevant. But yeah, if you find mass murder more acceptable than people having their love and commitment officially recognized that says a hell of a lot about you.
so you'd be happy for me to marry two women at the same time, or perhaps even my sister?

And many communist countries don't allow same-sex marriage - plus of course, your red herring about 'mass murder' is just utterly irrelevant here.
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felamaslen
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#30
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#30
(Original post by ModYom)
So how about all the other countries in the World at that time, you know, the ones that also vowed not to hit Germany - were they at war with the UK as well?:rolleyes:


and you do realise, that in the current period, the UK has vowed not to hit Russia - does that mean we are at war with the Ukraine?

seriously, you need to brush up on your ideas a little........
We're not in WW2. Russia was a very significant country with the power to (help) defeat Germany.

Maybe if Russia had declared neutrality it would not have been at war with the UK. But having German diplomats shake hands with Russian ones in Moscow is rather more than a statement of neutrality.

This isn't the main point I was making, by the way, if you go back to my original post.
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felamaslen
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#31
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#31
(Original post by ModYom)
so what is the acceptable amount a government can murder then? How about 500,000 or what about 200,000 - that's ok is it?
Ideally 0. Do you accept though that a country which murders 200,000 is not as evil as a country which murders 60,000,000?

aren't they - I'm sure the victims will agree with you on that one, not.
They aren't in the best position to judge.

Are you ****ing serious! 'the cold war wasn't ideological' ha ha ha
You know that isn't what I said.
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lucaf
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#32
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#32
(Original post by ModYom)
so you'd be happy for me to marry two women at the same time, or perhaps even my sister?

And many communist countries don't allow same-sex marriage - plus of course, your red herring about 'mass murder' is just utterly irrelevant here.
Two women, go nuts. Sister, not so much.

And you were comparing Brussels with Stalin, who was a mass murderer. So it isn't a red herring.
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felamaslen
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#33
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#33
(Original post by ModYom)
Try standing outside a supermarket handing out free food on a regular basis - guess what happens! Opposing the capitalist system in this way will get you arrested. That's freedom? yeah right
There is nothing the police could do, since it isn't illegal.
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Rakas21
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#34
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#34
(Original post by DaniilKaya)
Because history is a dangerous tool that can manipulate western mind. There is no evidence at all, that Stalin personally gave orders for the genocide.

Russia was fighting 80% of Nazis, and at the end, US joined the war and finally finished off the Nazis with a little D-Day landing. While Russia was already nearly Berlin. This fact would gave Russia an immortal reputation around the world as a Hero nation. However for the West it was not the image they want to see in Russia right? So they twist the history, faking it. I recently bought a history book published by an English historian in 1965 and it only talks about the western allies, but there is no word about the biggest conributor - Russia (80%)

SO why Russia is the most hated country for liberal gayropeans?
Well yeah.

Being a nice guy does not stop you being a dictator if you don't have free and fair elections. Whatever Stalin did or did not do, he did not hold free and fair elections and therefore was a dictator.

Your question should be ' Was Stalin a tyrant' since that adds a negative connotation to the word dictator (some like the Chinese Communist Party or the old Singaporean guy could possibly be called benevolent at a stretch).
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ModYom
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#35
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#35
(Original post by felamaslen)
We're not in WW2. Russia was a very significant country with the power to (help) defeat Germany.

Maybe if Russia had declared neutrality it would not have been at war with the UK. But having German diplomats shake hands with Russian ones in Moscow is rather more than a statement of neutrality.
Stalin made a temporary 'non-agression pact' with Hitler in order to BUY TIME.

He needed time to build up the Red Army against the inevitable attack - which clearly was imminent, especially when you consider Hitler's vehement hatred of communism.

IOW: Stalin was playing Hitler.

can't you see that?
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ModYom
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#36
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#36
(Original post by felamaslen)
Ideally 0. Do you accept though that a country which murders 200,000 is not as evil as a country which murders 60,000,000?
What country has ever murdered 60 million? Seems like you are now just making things up - first point was about the Holmodor - estimates range from 2-7 million dead there.

so, what are you talking about now?
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ModYom
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#37
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#37
(Original post by felamaslen)
There is nothing the police could do, since it isn't illegal.
Businesses have many laws in their favour, (ie: laws which 'protect the business').

Try it - see what happens.
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ModYom
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Rakas21)
Well yeah.

Being a nice guy does not stop you being a dictator if you don't have free and fair elections. Whatever Stalin did or did not do, he did not hold free and fair elections and therefore was a dictator.
So by your logic, Hitler was NOT a dictator as he was in fact, freely and fairly elected.
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Moosferatu
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#39
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#39
Joe Stalin killed twenty million of his own people, his gulags were hellholes. This mad man, this wicked criminal. Supported by Foot, Benn, Milliband Senior, Straw, Blunkett, Clarke, Reid, and Galloway: just a few of the many Communist anti-English racists. Blunt and his gang were just the tip of the iceberg.
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Rakas21
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#40
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#40
(Original post by ModYom)
So by your logic, Hitler was NOT a dictator as he was in fact, freely and fairly elected.
True but he became a dictator afterward once he stopped.
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