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EU referendum: Where does your vote lie? watch

  • View Poll Results: In or Out of EU?
    In
    62.00%
    Out
    37.00%
    I won't vote.
    1.00%

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    In for me... Want to study in UK and am terrified of what this might mean for me... This blog post actually summarises it pretty well... https://thenextwatchdog.wordpress.co...ent-not-wanted
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    In...and fully in. As a fully functioning member of the EU within the EU framework. Yes, ECHR, Euro, respecting free travel for ALL EU Citizens and EU Citizens' rights to work and live abroad. With Britian's population and economy, Britain should have as much impact on the EU as Germany and France. It's disgusting that our politicians seem to pick and choose which policies they want to follow.

    Fully in or not at all. The UK benefits so much from the EU, it would be a disaster if we left.
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    (Original post by jammy4041)
    In...and fully in. As a fully functioning member of the EU within the EU framework. Yes, ECHR, Euro, respecting free travel for ALL EU Citizens and EU Citizens' rights to work and live abroad. With Britian's population and economy, Britain should have as much impact on the EU as Germany and France. It's disgusting that our politicians seem to pick and choose which policies they want to follow.

    Fully in or not at all. The UK benefits so much from the EU, it would be a disaster if we left.
    We not benefit from the ECHR through being in the EU... in fact, we are unlikely to benefit from that at all, despite being in the EU, if the government ges through with its alleged plans to scrap the HRA 1998
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    (Original post by gman10)
    We not benefit from the ECHR through being in the EU... in fact, we are unlikely to benefit from that at all, despite being in the EU, if the government ges through with its alleged plans to scrap the HRA 1998
    God help us all if that happens...human rights are universal. The EU may be the only defense against the some of the more extreme Conservative policies.
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    (Original post by jammy4041)
    In...and fully in. As a fully functioning member of the EU within the EU framework. Yes, ECHR, Euro, respecting free travel for ALL EU Citizens and EU Citizens' rights to work and live abroad. With Britian's population and economy, Britain should have as much impact on the EU as Germany and France. It's disgusting that our politicians seem to pick and choose which policies they want to follow.

    Fully in or not at all. The UK benefits so much from the EU, it would be a disaster if we left.
    Fine, but the Euro? I don't think I'm being controversial here in saying that it would be disastrous for our economy to enter the Euro.

    That is not a philosophical or political problem, it is an economic one. The single currency is inherently flawed insofar as it creates a monetary union without a fiscal union - success monetary unions have centralised fiscal powers or would at least implement tight fiscal controls that can be enforced.

    The second point is one of economic geography. While the EU aims for convergence between its member-states economies, that simply hasn't happened to anything like a sufficient degree. Many of the member-states have not come anywhere near approaching the economic position of the UK, Germany and so on. While this can be a long-term ambition for the EU - and a good reason why we have fiscal sharing between member-states - it is simply impossible in in the short-term: it will take decades.

    (Original post by gman10)
    We not benefit from the ECHR through being in the EU... in fact, we are unlikely to benefit from that at all, despite being in the EU, if the government ges through with its alleged plans to scrap the HRA 1998
    The Government is still signed up to the ECHR and has no plans to change that situation. The proposed British Bill of Rights will incorporate the ECHR rights within it.
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    (Original post by jammy4041)
    God help us all if that happens...human rights are universal. The EU may be the only defense against the some of the more extreme Conservative policies.
    The EU does not enforce human rights on the UK Government. The European Court of Human Rights is a completely separate entity set up under the auspices of the Council of Europe, which is entirely separate from the EU. Many countries, like Russia, Turkey, Norway, Serbia and Ukraine are part of the ECHR but not members of the EU.
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    In.

    Leaving won't solve our problems by a long shot, we need housing, fair wages and stronger rules to ensure workers are paid nothing less than the minimum wage (removing the "oh them foreign people come and work for less than minimum and take our jobs" complaint), stronger education, with more emphasis put on practical skills for the kids who clearly aren't going to benefit from a university education (we need more plumbers, not media studies graduates with second class degrees from say, Roehampton). I'm sick of blaming foreigners for our problems, besides, outside of the major cities the population is overwhelmingly white British. Its xenophobia at its finest. Britain has a lot of natural allies in the EU, and we're not the only country dissatisfied, Poland and the Netherlands are ideologically very similar to us and would support us more if we reached out for support. Sadly we've insulted the Polish by being so rude about them all the bleeding time.

    And for purely personal reasons, I live in inner London, immigrants are a serious problem. But not from the EU, if we could have less Saudis buying up properties and putting house prices through the roof it would be fantastic. The average house where i live is just shy of £2m its a joke. London needs the EU, and were England to vote to leave, London would seriously have to consider being an independent state, its not just the capital of Britain. Its the capital of Europe.

    England can rot, but if the rest of England destroys London through their narrow mindedness they deserve the collapse of the economy that will come from the collapse of London, and then some.
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    In its current state, out.

    I may change my mind depending how well Cameron's negotiations go
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    Out.

    Winston Churchill once said: “If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.”
    • Welcome Squad
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    Welcome Squad
    Out, sooner the better.
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    Undecided.

    This sums up my views


    "There is a very strong social democratic case to be made for the European Union. It is one that emphasises the rights of European citizens as individuals – the Human Rights Act is something to be cherished – as well as the gains from European unity and solidarity between citizens. It is a vision of an EU that is to the benefit of all, not just business. That vision of a social Europe was entirely absent from Tony Blair’s speech and for good reason.


    He is one of the architects of the neoliberal Europe that has caused real financial hardship and insecurity for millions. The banking crisis, austerity, and public services cuts are the ongoing legacy of his championing of neoliberalism and pandering to financial elites. And as one of the key proponents the Iraq war, Blair ignored the largest outpouring of public opinion in 2,000 years of British history who demonstrated against going to war. So his contemptuous attitude towards democracy and public accountability is no surprise."

    - Salma Yaqoob talking about tony Blair's po EU speech in the run up to the election.
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    In. I find the EU to be a ghastly institution and the cause of many problems in the UK, but we're unfortunately too far in now, and I'm not sure we still command sufficient economic might on the world stage to remain quite as relevant as we are without membership of the EU.

    I think Cameron will come away with some reforms, which might help a little bit. Ultimately the EU probably has to break itself, which will probably take another 15-20 years, before exit becomes a desirable thing.
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    Out.
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    Out.
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    I would like to leave or at the very least reform the EU, but not on the terms of UKIP or the Conservatives. My main issues with the EU are around the loss of sovereignty, and TTIP which as far as I can see is just a corporate power grab. I also think CAP needs to be reformed so that more money goes to environmental schemes and less money is spent overall, rather than just giving landowners large sums of money (some of whom live abroad and pay no tax into our system - how's that for benefit scrounging?) simply for owning land.

    The Conservatives don't seem to like regulation from the EU, even when that regulation is necessary - when they first announced the referendum plan they mentioned environmental laws, and I do not for one second believe they want EU reform so they can strengthen them. For example, they opposed the EU's ban on neonicotinoid pesticides for no scientifically valid reasons. I get the impression the Conservatives just have an ideological desire to weaken some regulations, even the ones we really need like environmental protection, workers rights, consumer protection, etc.

    Then there's UKIP which are basically Conservatives on steroids, deny climate change and are actively anti-environmentalist for ideological reasons. I trust them even less.
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    (Original post by Kiytt)
    Out.

    Winston Churchill once said: “If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.”
    He is also credited with helping to set up the EU in the first place.

    http://archive.is/hSYZV
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    (Original post by RFowler)
    . My main issues with the EU are around the loss of sovereignty, s.
    What is the EU stopping the UK from doing what you would want?


    Why is this worse than the loss of sovereignty in belonging to the UN, NATO, IMF etc?
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    There are plenty of good and bad points to EU membership. I've copied my post from another thread..

    What i will say is that i'm undecided with a default of 'In' and that there are credible advantages and disadvantages to me..

    Advantages..

    More power when we speak as one in the world (granted getting 29 members to agree is difficult).
    Jobs and investment from global business wanting a European base - London regarded as the Financial capital of Europe
    Free movement of labour (at least 300 million of which is from rich countries that we should want it with, some question of whether it's a good idea with eastern Europe)
    ~15% of MEP's give us a relatively large say, if the Tories choose to leave the governing EPP that's their fault
    Carrot of EU membership has given countries an incentive to adopt western values and open market economies
    Prevents Russian expansion (Crimea and a small eastern region may go to Russia but the west has won the bulk of Ukraine)
    Protects workers rights (even i as a Tory don't entirely trust some of the talk about abolition of regulation, some of it screams of business over employee)

    Disadvantages..

    Common agricultural policy - The EU is a subsidy junky
    Net contribution
    Common Fisheries Policy - Our fish stocks in recent decades have been decimated and some countries don't even have coasts
    EU is beaurocratic and slow full of vested interests
    The EU has expanded into poor countries too quickly (granted it's hard to prevent Russian influence expanding if you don't).
    The EU is broadly too pacifist
    The EU becoming ever more federal will likely force us to eventually go all in or all out.

    Effects of coming out..

    Probable fiscal benefits due to abolition of subsidies and part of our contribution back
    Probably able to go out and get trade treaties quicker
    Potential for good regulation to be abolished by domestic governments
    Potential for immigration to be aggressively reduced (bad if you ask me)
    Lower jobs and investment as regulation diverges from business wanting a European base (more a case of lost future investment than business fleeing but potentially more freedom for British business wanting to export globally)
    Potential for closer relationships with our brethren in the Anglosphere

    ..

    I certainly think the EU should exist regardless of whether we are part of it.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    What is the EU stopping the UK from doing what you would want?


    Why is this worse than the loss of sovereignty in belonging to the UN, NATO, IMF etc?
    I just don't like how the EU imposes laws on an entire continent. For me it's a mater of principle that a foreign body with such a big democratic deficit implementing laws is a bad idea.
    One I can think of off the top of my head is the ban on asulam, a herbicide important for bracken control in the UK, which was banned to protect spinach (I think it was spinach) crops in other EU countries. A relatively minor issue, but an example of how the EU in its current form can introduce laws that benefit some countries but are problematic for others.

    I also see TTIP as part of the sovereignty issue - it will give more power to corporate interests that already have too much influence on government as it is. Before you accuse me of scaremongering, similar agreements in other countries have allowed companies to sue governments for supposed loss of profits (e.g. for anti fracking laws, restricting mining, etc.).
    I think a system which could weaken regulations (or "harmonise" as pro-TTIP politicians like to say) and could for example allow a mining company to sue the government if it refused to allow destructive mining in a national park is a pretty big threat to sovereignty.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    He is also credited with helping to set up the EU in the first place.

    http://archive.is/hSYZV
    Except the EU back then was entirely different to what it is today.
 
 
 

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