Turn on thread page Beta

Is David Cameron trying to fix an EU referendum? watch

  • View Poll Results: Should EU immigrants be allowed to vote in an EU referendum
    Yes
    30
    51.72%
    No
    28
    48.28%

    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Referendum number one was the recent election. UKIP would have pulled britain out the EU by now. Unlike the Scots you get a second bite at the cherry. Can't complain of lack of democracy there really.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    The SNP have already stated that they are planning to have a second independence referendum. And the election was more about keeping the SNP out of power in Westminster.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by earthworm)
    I want the UK in the EU but think it should only be british citizens (not commonwealth as they could gain from brexit) I dont want the result challenged. Cameron won the election spending way more than labour, ot would be hipocritical of him to limit spending.
    Actually I'm supportive of both EU and Commonwealth. I do not see why we shouldn't have a similar union with countries such as Canada or Australia.

    By spending, I presume you mean Tories' election campaign budget was bigger?

    I don't mind if Commonwealth and EU citizens are allowed to vote too. If they are resident in Britain then it's fine. However I understand that citizens shouldn't be overrun by temporary residents.

    What are your views on British Citizens residing overseas voting in such a referendum?

    (Original post by gordonbennetton)
    Referendum number one was the recent election. UKIP would have pulled britain out the EU by now. Unlike the Scots you get a second bite at the cherry. Can't complain of lack of democracy there really.
    To be fair our electoral system is FPTP, and there are far more important issues that whether we should be part of EU. Unless the EU became disastrous for UK or we miraculously had nothing else to worry about, elections can't really be fought on one issue.
    (Original post by DiggingLake)
    The SNP have already stated that they are planning to have a second independence referendum. And the election was more about keeping the SNP out of power in Westminster.
    Why do English care so much about keeping SNP out of power in Westminster? Do English not want Scots to have a say in Parliament?

    I think it's good for minority parties to form larger sections of Parliament, but I agree that SNP might be a little too out of touch with British politics for such a king-maker role; I would hope that the only things they would request were restricted to Scotland.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Hang on a minute, I am a commonwealth citizen and I do not believe in brexit. The reason is not that I am left wing (as I am not , I am a Tory voter) but the economics indiciate that the UK should be in EU. The fact that one uses "they are commonwealth so they would act in their best interests" is a rather appalling excuse because it wouldn't matter positively or negatively regardless UK stays in the EU; all of us have residence visas(who can vote) which you can only get with a decent salary so any claims that we have low salaries, is again untrue so really, I think I can just diss it on that means that it is only a statement meant to somehow undermine the ability of the commonwealth citizens to vote!
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by theroyalwhigs)
    Under British law anyone residing in the UK who is from EU or Commonwealth is free to vote, as well as any Citizens residing abroad. I do not see a problem with this.

    I actually want a Commonwealth Union too, in addition to EU membership, even if it's just CAN/AUS/NZ.

    Something I was discussing over countries with high foreigner populations like UAE and Singapore was about having two assemblies with one elected on citizenship and the other on residency. I'm not sure if it's viable for Britain to do something but it's certainly something the UAE should do.
    Not really, it's actually illegal for a EU person to vote regardless their residency; My friend who is German and has lived here all her life was reported to police and in fact spent a night in jail for being in the pool both as it is punishable by 6 months in prison

    as per the Commonwealth Union; I don't they would want a commonwealth union as they are better off without the UK
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sharkindustries)
    Not really, it's actually illegal for a EU person to vote regardless their residency; My friend who is German and has lived here all her life was reported to police and in fact spent a night in jail for being in the pool both as it is punishable by 6 months in prison

    as per the Commonwealth Union; I don't they would want a commonwealth union as they are better off without the UK
    Are you from AUS/CAN/NZ?
    I googled it and it seems you may have been right.

    As an EU citizen resident in the UK you are allowed to vote at local government, devolved legislature (i.e. Scottish Parliament, Welsh Assembly and Northern Ireland Assembly) and European parliamentary elections.
    IMO they should be allowed to vote. In countries where there's a large number of foreigners who aren't Citizens, I can tolerate some sort of split in parliaments where Citizens can vote for 50%, while Residents can vote for the remaining 50%.


    I would push for some sort of Commonwealth Union, with more liberal movement and greater political integration. What I'm unsure about is whether we should include ALL Commonwealth of Nation countries, or just AUS/CAN/NZ. I fear there will be too many problems due to wealth differences.

    I don't think we should fear such unions. We spend taxes on far more useless things and these unions offer us plenty of benefits; I also think such unions will help us cut down the size of our military and improve our economy.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    I am a commonwealth citizen , but Indian actually


    (Original post by theroyalwhigs)
    Are you from AUS/CAN/NZ?
    I googled it and it seems you may have been right.



    IMO they should be allowed to vote. In countries where there's a large number of foreigners who aren't Citizens, I can tolerate some sort of split in parliaments where Citizens can vote for 50%, while Residents can vote for the remaining 50%.


    I would push for some sort of Commonwealth Union, with more liberal movement and greater political integration. What I'm unsure about is whether we should include ALL Commonwealth of Nation countries, or just AUS/CAN/NZ. I fear there will be too many problems due to wealth differences.

    I don't think we should fear such unions. We spend taxes on far more useless things and these unions offer us plenty of benefits; I also think such unions will help us cut down the size of our military and improve our economy.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by L i b)
    There's no election or referendum ever been conducted on that basis. There is always some sort of citizenship threshold (whether British, EU or Commonwealth).
    I was of course referring to EU nationals, not just carte Blanche. Probably should have been more specific.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sharkindustries)
    Not really, it's actually illegal for a EU person to vote regardless their residency; My friend who is German and has lived here all her life was reported to police and in fact spent a night in jail for being in the pool both as it is punishable by 6 months in prison
    Well, EU citizens who are not also Irish or Commonwealth citizens who are resident here can vote for local councils, in European elections and for the devolved assemblies.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Well, I am talking about general election and I can imagine they wouldn't be able to vote even in the referendum due to the element of bias
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DiggingLake)
    The SNP have already stated that they are planning to have a second independence referendum. And the election was more about keeping the SNP out of power in Westminster.
    aye
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    EU citizens living in the UK have the right to vote in a referendum.It is not only about the UK's future.These people since they work and have their life should at least have a say and protect their interests and also the interests of the UK they live in.

    The vast majority of British people wish to remain in the EU.The majority of Brexit supporters are those from India and Pakistan and other Commonwealth countries wishing to benefit their countries from the EU divorce.

    The benefits of EU membership are great and so many British did not care to learn about..It is not only about immigration and work.Regarding work there are many employment opportunities in Germany,France,Holland,Belgium,D enmark but also to EEA countries like Switzerland and a UK graduate of good universities especially the top ones could pursue a career in abroad with better terms and salary.

    A UK resident as an EU resident can study in European universities with much lower tuition fees or no tuition fees at all just like the locals.

    UK people as EU residents can have access to the health system of other countries too.NHS is under serious cuts and the quality of services is bad now.They think of patients as costs and they do not provide the best medication and treatments to cut cocts or they deny to prescribe examinations for the same reason. However the hospitals in Germany,France,Sweden are accessible for free!This mainly applies for chonic diseases or serious health conditions.

    The UK economy has been highly supported by the EU.So many funding programs to support farmers,enterpreneurs,smalla nd medium enterprises,technology development,constructions like bridges,roads,schools. The UK universities owe part of their development to EU funds. I studied at Manchester University and I remember they announced the financial support in 2010 of up to 20 million GBP by EU funding to support new premises and scientific programs.

    The UK businesses work closely with the EU based companies without many taxes and duties.They can trade and buy without barriers and time consuming processes.

    On the other hand a potential Brexit and leaving the EU would be the beginning of serious consequences for the global economy.It would start from UK economy's recession and would expand quickly to the EU.This would affect the global economies and the uncertainty and high risk would cause a recession worse than 2008's.

    I don't like Cameron's decision.Gining citizens a referendum for such a serious matter is like he wants to not have any responsibility for things but also to fool people so as not to care about the real problems like low wages,inflation,and the inhuman welfare cuts.I hope the proper use of media in time to inform people in detail of EU benefits would help the UK people make the right choice and continue being a valuable member of the EU.Because EU is a big family,not a restriction zone.The Treaty of Lisbon has some problems and does not work very well.It will change by 2020.I understand Cameron's worries about benefits tourism.I am a poor jobseeker and I am returning to the Uk after almost 4 years of absence!Yeah at elast the JSA allowance would help a bit while jobsearching but I would understand if they cut it too..I also support his decision to negotiate the Human Rights Act.There are cases when jihandist terrorists were not deported becasue the Human Rights Act was against it because they had family in the UK or similar cases.I also support Cameron's demand to not allow EU immigrants who arrive to the UK and beg for change or others who commit crimes.I blieve criminals and beggars should be sent back to their countries.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ace123)
    Backbench Tory MP's are furious David Cameron is planning to let EU immigrants vote in an EU referendum and demand the vote is general election voting rules mainly British voters and Commonwealth. This is after on Thursday Jeremy Hunt on Question Time also refused to back equal spending limits to allow the EU to fund the In campaign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...t-to-vote.html

    Should it be British voters only?, is David Cameron offering a fair referendum? is he trying to fix the result?
    If right-wingers want equal spending limits for this I hope the Tories and UKIP are going to be cutting their big business backers to the bone at the next general election. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

    It shouldn't be British voters only. EU migrants can vote in local, EU and devolved elections already, the only ones they can't vote in are those for Westminster. I suppose you have an argument in that this is an action of the Westminster government, but there is precedent from, you know, all the other regional referenda since the 1990s that it's based on the residency-based electoral roll rather than the citizenship-based one.

    Besides, what are you whinging about (I know extreme right wingers love to whinge...): the difference is 45.3m to 46.8m voters. If you're that worried about it then mobilise the country's Europhobes 2% more effectively. I'm sure Wheeler, Sykes and Desmond will pony up for it.

    Plus all the Commonwealth lot, who have a great incentive to vote Out, also get to vote in this. There are 1m of these according to the Daily Mail. But I see the Torygraph doesn't mention them...

    By the way, anyone who's against the EU is either an American stooge or a useful idiot for American stooges. Pretty sure, given the choice of who we give most of our allegiance to, most of us would rather Europe than the USA, especially as we actually have a say in Europe and I think rather more in common culturally. It's certainly not sovereignty we would get if we left the EU, it's vassalage to America and that's what the Atlanticists on the Tory right want, with all those sweet, sweet frankenfoods, inaccessible healthcare, lack of workers' rights etc.

    Great academic article on it here (T&F access)

    Sure negotiate as many powers back as possible, but don't throw a wobbly and withdraw because there are good things about keeping a finger in the pie. To leave would be as stupid as getting rid of Trident and thus giving up our seat on the Security Council. But UKIP types would never go for that because defence and weapons are big daddy chief do war kill foreigners type things.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DiggingLake)
    The SNP have already stated that they are planning to have a second independence referendum. And the election was more about keeping the SNP out of power in Westminster.
    No they're not. The SNP throughout the campaign were clearly trying to position themselves for a devo-max settlement from Labour. The Tories will have to give them one anyway otherwise they will go for broke and call another referendum using the EU one as an excuse.

    The SNP leadership have seen the figures and know independence is unviable. The leadership cadre is all gradualists and has been since at least Swinney - Sturge is more gradualist than Salmond. Their problem they're stoking up for the future is that their support is nationalistic and fundamentalist (that means INDEPENDENCE NOW). The noises being made lately have even been that the SNP might in the long term stand in the north of England.

    My analysis is the leadership want devo-max not independence and will only hold referenda to shore up their support, and maybe talk about it at elections. As they have clean swept Scotland there is no need for another referendum and can use the once in a generation as an excuse. The only other reason for them to hold a referendum is if Westminster won't give them any concessions.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    EU migrants who have not become British citizens should absolutely not be given a say on whether Britain gets subsumed into a United States of Europe. It's not their country to give away.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KOSTAS_31)
    EU citizens living in the UK have the right to vote in a referendum.It is not only about the UK's future.These people since they work and have their life should at least have a say and protect their interests and also the interests of the UK they live in.

    The vast majority of British people wish to remain in the EU.The majority of Brexit supporters are those from India and Pakistan and other Commonwealth countries wishing to benefit their countries from the EU divorce.

    The benefits of EU membership are great and so many British did not care to learn about..It is not only about immigration and work.Regarding work there are many employment opportunities in Germany,France,Holland,Belgium,D enmark but also to EEA countries like Switzerland and a UK graduate of good universities especially the top ones could pursue a career in abroad with better terms and salary.

    A UK resident as an EU resident can study in European universities with much lower tuition fees or no tuition fees at all just like the locals.

    UK people as EU residents can have access to the health system of other countries too.NHS is under serious cuts and the quality of services is bad now.They think of patients as costs and they do not provide the best medication and treatments to cut cocts or they deny to prescribe examinations for the same reason. However the hospitals in Germany,France,Sweden are accessible for free!This mainly applies for chonic diseases or serious health conditions.

    The UK economy has been highly supported by the EU.So many funding programs to support farmers,enterpreneurs,smalla nd medium enterprises,technology development,constructions like bridges,roads,schools. The UK universities owe part of their development to EU funds. I studied at Manchester University and I remember they announced the financial support in 2010 of up to 20 million GBP by EU funding to support new premises and scientific programs.

    The UK businesses work closely with the EU based companies without many taxes and duties.They can trade and buy without barriers and time consuming processes.

    On the other hand a potential Brexit and leaving the EU would be the beginning of serious consequences for the global economy.It would start from UK economy's recession and would expand quickly to the EU.This would affect the global economies and the uncertainty and high risk would cause a recession worse than 2008's.

    I don't like Cameron's decision.Gining citizens a referendum for such a serious matter is like he wants to not have any responsibility for things but also to fool people so as not to care about the real problems like low wages,inflation,and the inhuman welfare cuts.I hope the proper use of media in time to inform people in detail of EU benefits would help the UK people make the right choice and continue being a valuable member of the EU.Because EU is a big family,not a restriction zone.The Treaty of Lisbon has some problems and does not work very well.It will change by 2020.I understand Cameron's worries about benefits tourism.I am a poor jobseeker and I am returning to the Uk after almost 4 years of absence!Yeah at elast the JSA allowance would help a bit while jobsearching but I would understand if they cut it too..I also support his decision to negotiate the Human Rights Act.There are cases when jihandist terrorists were not deported becasue the Human Rights Act was against it because they had family in the UK or similar cases.I also support Cameron's demand to not allow EU immigrants who arrive to the UK and beg for change or others who commit crimes.I blieve criminals and beggars should be sent back to their countries.
    Excuse me , what the hell do you mean by Indians supporting brexit?? I am an Indian and support the UK staying in the EU. As per , Cameron the reason why he is having a referendum is because if you haven't noticed the UK is a democracy! The referendum will also take place after negotiations with the EU based on immigration and trade....that being said, in what universe will globalisation (through trade with the commonwealth) will lead to recession; the last I check was the failure of the EU's bank to integrate to the global market which led to recession
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    How many ethnic minority supporters do you think UKIP had? I don't think it's just Pakistanis who hate Europe.

    Why would anyone would think Europe would have a negative effect on South Asia? It's not as if Britain can't work with EU AND Commonwealth. If anything EU is actually more liberal than nationalism.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sharkindustries)
    Excuse me , what the hell do you mean by Indians supporting brexit?? I am an Indian and support the UK staying in the EU. As per , Cameron the reason why he is having a referendum is because if you haven't noticed the UK is a democracy! The referendum will also take place after negotiations with the EU based on immigration and trade....that being said, in what universe will globalisation (through trade with the commonwealth) will lead to recession; the last I check was the failure of the EU's bank to integrate to the global market which led to recession
    I believe that people from india and Pakistan would want a Brexit more because their countries would benefit more by having stronger trade relationship.

    In a democracy you either let people choose their representatives in the parliament or they should vote themselves their laws,regulations and have a say in almost everything..A referendum by an elected government means they just want to not have any responsibility and put the burden on people.Talking about EU referendum do you think there are many UK citizens who know about the EU?Are they aware of it and the consequences of a Brexit?Many could be manipulated by UKIP,Eurosceptic Torries or Eurosceptic Labour.Why evryone says it will be crucial what Cameron will campaign for?I bet that if Cameron uses the media and newspapers people will believe him.If he recommends to stay int hey will follow and if he recommends to leave,very low chance,they will vote to leave..
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KOSTAS_31)
    I believe that people from india and Pakistan would want a Brexit more because their countries would benefit more by having stronger trade relationship.

    In a democracy you either let people choose their representatives in the parliament or they should vote themselves their laws,regulations and have a say in almost everything..A referendum by an elected government means they just want to not have any responsibility and put the burden on people.Talking about EU referendum do you think there are many UK citizens who know about the EU?Are they aware of it and the consequences of a Brexit?Many could be manipulated by UKIP,Eurosceptic Torries or Eurosceptic Labour.Why evryone says it will be crucial what Cameron will campaign for?I bet that if Cameron uses the media and newspapers people will believe him.If he recommends to stay int hey will follow and if he recommends to leave,very low chance,they will vote to leave..
    Well, acrually whoever is going to vote would know minimal amount of the information as Cameron is going to make them understand as you said through media. Cameron actually wants to stay in the EU with amended trade and immigration laws which is better for the economy. As per the commonwealth, it really would not necessarily lead to a recession as it d be beneficial to trade with the commonwealth as well. Secondly, I really do not think even though they both are commonwealth nations, Indian and Pakistani interests would ever align; their ideology and attitudes differ massively so generalising them would be undermining the true situation in a realistic scenario,
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    The imperialists who dream of a grand union with the commonwealth are fools. You have loads of different diverse countries split across about six different continents. It's a bloody ridiculous assertion.
 
 
 

3,329

students online now

800,000+

Exam discussions

Find your exam discussion here

Poll
Should predicted grades be removed from the uni application process
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.