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Do you believe in an afterlife? watch

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    (Original post by 22.22)
    Idea I had the other day:

    Assuming energy in the universe cannot be destroyed/created only transferred, and assuming humans have something beyond just a body- consciousness (I hesitate referring to it as a soul), then surely the energy manifested In the consciousness must be transferred somewhere upon death according to the first premise. Therefore suggesting the consciousness is involved in, for lack of a better phrase, 'afterlife' upon death.

    Probably has one or more gaping flaws in it that I've failed to see, but I still think its an interesting idea
    I think a possible flaw would lie in vagueness. Energy conservation, for example, has a very rigorous mathematical definition. I think once you pin down precisely what you mean by 'the energy manifested in the consciousness' you might have a better idea.

    Also, remember that a huge amount (possibly all) of our conscious experience is dependent on the physical brain, so one has to wonder whether humans actually possess 'something beyond just a body-consciousness'.

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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    The bible says that the body you have in this life is left behind and belongs to the earth; your soul belongs with god and that is what will return.

    If you die as a young child you will be in heaven but as a developed person.
    In heaven the body you get will not be subject to the laws of this universe such as aging, blindness.
    I suppose my problem with this is that evidence indicates that virtually everything about the mind can be damaged by damaging the brain. So, if I leave my brain behind, that would seem to suggest that I wouldn't have my mind either. In what sense is it really me going to heaven if I no longer have my mind?


    As for evidence, scientific evidence that can prove this;
    Only near death experiences (particuarly of those born blind) is the closest you can get as far as I am aware. Anecdotal of course.

    Believing in a religion requires faith. Faith by definition will require an element of belief despite uncertaintity and ambiguity. If the holy scriptures, arguements such as who created the universe etc are to be believed they will need faith.
    All beliefs involve elements of uncertainty and ambiguity so I wouldn't worry about that

    Personally, I no longer believe that the Bible (or Christianity) is true because it seems very implausible on its face and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that it's true. That's a discussion for another time though!
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    (Original post by Implication)
    I suppose my problem with this is that evidence indicates that virtually everything about the mind can be damaged by damaging the brain. So, if I leave my brain behind, that would seem to suggest that I wouldn't have my mind either. In what sense is it really me going to heaven if I no longer have my mind?

    It will be your soul that goes, not your mind. I am no expert on the bible so that is all that I know. What waits for us when we die-only one way to truly find out!


    All beliefs involve elements of uncertainty and ambiguity so I wouldn't worry about that

    Personally, I no longer believe that the Bible (or Christianity) is true because it seems very implausible on its face and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that it's true. That's a discussion for another time though!
    In terms of believing evidence the bible and Koran both mention a story that essentially goes;

    A non-believer goes to hell after dying. He says "please, let me warn my family". The response is;
    "Your family have the teachings from (insert names) already. They have already heard God's message". For Christianity they have already heard of the mracles of Jesus. What more proof can they want? More miracles which would be discounted?

    Whether it is true or not is opnion-but a very interesting perspective nonetheless
    You say you no longer believe-implying you did. So you may well know far more than me about the Bible anyway!
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    (Original post by abc:))
    It's easy to have a strong opinion on something sat safely behind your keyboard in your bedroom.
    Maybe you should read the post again.
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    I don't believe in an afterlife but more importantly I don't want one... unless it's reincarnation!

    apparently heaven is eternal bliss... I don't care how blissful it is, it's ETERNAL, you get used to it, then you get fukkin bored!
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    (Original post by wiseCrack)
    I don't believe in an afterlife but more importantly I don't want one... unless it's reincarnation!

    apparently heaven is eternal bliss... I don't care how blissful it is, it's ETERNAL, you get used to it, then you get fukkin bored!
    feel like this was slightly tongue in cheek, and understand this is going off topic but a heaven would be outside space & time as we understand it.

    I know what you mean though; heaven is such a daunting idea
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    (Original post by Kyou)
    Maybe you should read the post again.
    I don't follow
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    (Original post by djj)
    feel like this was slightly tongue in cheek, and understand this is going off topic but a heaven would be outside space & time as we understand it.

    I know what you mean though; heaven is such a daunting idea
    How would that change anything? I think the laws of perception relativity would still apply: i.e. If bliss was all you experienced it would get to a point where you would no longer experience it as bliss because there would be no contrast in which to contextualise your experience.
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    (Original post by abc:))
    I don't follow
    I wasn't talking about people outside of TSR. I was merely talking about what I've seen from most (not all) people on this website. Me going outside has nothing to do with this.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    How would that change anything? I think the laws of perception relativity would still apply: i.e. If bliss was all you experienced it would get to a point where you would no longer experience it as bliss because there would be no contrast in which to contextualise your experience.
    The contrast would be earth? (i think?)
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    (Original post by djj)
    The contrast would be earth? (i think?)
    Heh? If you're in heaven you wouldn't be aware of earth...
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    how wouldn't you be? Your soul lives on.

    I won't be arguing much with you though i'm afraid I'm currently attempting to try & make sense on my thoughts about this topic & religion so not really in a position to argue.
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    (Original post by djj)
    how wouldn't you be? Your soul lives on.

    I won't be arguing much with you though i'm afraid I'm currently attempting to try & make sense on my thoughts about this topic & religion so not really in a position to argue.
    Yeah but when you're in heaven you're experiencing heaven, not life on Earth...
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    I see what you're saying; if it was all pleasure then you wouldn't spend time recalling bad earthly memories?

    I
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    (Original post by Kyou)
    I wasn't talking about people outside of TSR. I was merely talking about what I've seen from most (not all) people on this website. Me going outside has nothing to do with this.
    I think you're misunderstanding what I was saying. Your OP was saying how people on TSR seem to either definitely believe in an after-life or definitely not.

    What I was trying to say, was that it may seem like that, because on forums such as this, especially one with so many young people, it is easy for some people to stick to their guns and take a stance, anonymously and with people they don't know. I think a lot of those people, in real life, would be more likely to take moderate stances.
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    All the people who have disbelieved in an afterlife have used science to prove why they may be right, and they're completely correct. According to what we know about the world (to loosely use that phrase as a synonym to science), afterlife isn't - and shouldn't be - possible. But I can't help but think, what if an afterlife does exist, and just hasn't been scientifically proved yet? Or what if an afterlife does exist, and is supernatural in it's inherent nature? What if our concepts about the supernatural are eventually proved to be wrong?

    An interesting debate which sadly, only death can answer for sure. Maybe the only computer in the afterlife is from 1998 and relies on a dial-up modem? Who knows?
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    (Original post by djj)
    I see what you're saying; if it was all pleasure then you wouldn't spend time recalling bad earthly memories?

    I
    Most people say that painful and negative experiences aren't possible in heaven so if this is the case one wouldn't be able to recall the bad memories.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    How would that change anything? I think the laws of perception relativity would still apply: i.e. If bliss was all you experienced it would get to a point where you would no longer experience it as bliss because there would be no contrast in which to contextualise your experience.
    Ah, I'm sure if heaven were managed by an omnipotent God, he/she/it could sort us out some eternal bliss even without the contrast

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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)

    In terms of believing evidence the bible and Koran both mention a story that essentially goes;

    A non-believer goes to hell after dying. He says "please, let me warn my family". The response is;
    "Your family have the teachings from (insert names) already. They have already heard God's message". For Christianity they have already heard of the mracles of Jesus. What more proof can they want? More miracles which would be discounted?

    Whether it is true or not is opnion-but a very interesting perspective nonetheless
    You say you no longer believe-implying you did. So you may well know far more than me about the Bible anyway!
    That story you quote is actually one of the things that troubles me about the religions. The fact that the evidence for them is negligible combined with the fact that God supposedly thinks we should believe on such evidence casts even further doubt on his supposed good qualities. If these stories are true, then god actually expects us to believe on bad evidence, which I think we can all agree is unwise.

    The trouble with miracles is that far more impressive ones are performed every day and we don't believe that these indicate anything supernatural. Why should they become more convincing when placed in ancient texts of otherwise dubious historical accuracy?

    Basically, I don't believe the miracles were really performed. But even if they were, I don't think that would entail that God exists, Jesus was the messiah or that any of the other incredible claims made by Christianity are true.

    I used to believe and studied my Bible quite a lot, but over time I realised that I didn't actually have any valid reasons for what I believed and so the belief itself just gradually kind of vanished :dontknow:

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    Indeed. The thought of staying there forever no matter how joy that place will be, is a bit daunting. But I don't know perhaps some of our emotion being stripped off and the only thing left would be happiness, loyaltly, etc. that prevent us from becoming bored in heaven.

    Reincarnation though you get to experience another life whether it will be a good one or a ****ty one but you will have no memories of the previous one or so I thought.
 
 
 
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