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Christians on TSR: Advice please? watch

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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hi,
    I'm a Christian who believes in no sex before marriage. My beliefs and life decision in this isnt popular amongst my peers, with many of them making nasty comments such as calling me "frigid" and putting pressure on me. Its also very unpopular with guys; my ex cheated on me and was horrible to me because i woukd not sleep with him.

    I am beginning to feel lonely and like I wont find anyone accepting of my beliefs. So i wondered, if you are a Christian on TSR, how highly do you regard your virginity? Is my belief an old fashioned Christian belief that doesnt fit society? What should I do generally? Any advice would be appreciated.

    Thanks x
    Any ex who cheats on you because of that isn't worth being with. He is at fault and should change, not you. Think about this for a second; are you really going to abandon your faith for some guy? Don't be silly!

    You will find plenty of people who accept your beliefs. Seriously, don't give up on your faith due to "friends" or boyfriends. Anyone who expects you to do so is truly selfish to the core.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Well, we are... Passing on our genes is something of an evolutionary impulse. You resist it because of your beliefs.
    Ok. Well, firstly- I did not claim that wanting to have sex is not natural. It is natural to want to have sex and sex is not this bad thing that Christians hate. There is a key difference in the two. But just to put it out there, I despise being labelled and objectified to be honest. This whole idea that we are just sexified, sex crazed, mammals who just want sex and more sex is what aggravates me. Like I and others are more than that- we have emotions, thoughts, ideas and options. Why I think humans are so amazing and different from other species is because we have the ability to make decisions and not just act out on things based on instincts.We have the power to say yes or no, deciding how we want our lives to be.

    Imagine our world if everyone purely acted on instincts, I don't think we would survive if that happened and I know it's a bold statement to make but it's true. Thank God for laws that influence people's decisions too. Though we are supposedly made to want to procreate with many partners as possible in terms of survival etc, there's a reason why many of us choose in today's society, monogamous relationships. Just acting out of impulse for many things is not wise, I see it the same way with wanting to have sex. I would have to analyse, think, making decisions.

    In terms of being natural, I just wanted to say it's also natural to not want to have sex. So it's natural to want and to not want sex. This is towards my Asexuals friends out there, hey! Though I am not Asexual, in case someone Asexual was reading this, I thought it would be great to touch on the other side of things in case if you were wondering if so and so is normal or natural. You're lovely the way you are x
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    Please don't feel guilty that you having no sex before marriage is why your ex cheated. If he felt that sex in a relationship was important for him, he should have broken up with you and moved on.

    You just need to find people who share the same beliefs and values as you. Don't think that there aren't any people out there who are waiting. There is nothing wrong with you waiting either.

    There are Christians who wait and non-Christians who wait. It's your choice and you have to find people who respect that!
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    To be honest, a lot of this is very contrived and deliberately misleading... :/ (I didn't read it before even though I replied about the formatting.) Christianity doesn't preach premarital abstinence because of STIs and to pretend like that's part of the reason why you have this view is to look like somebody with a weak case hoping to make it strong. It's the strange thing I've seen about a lot of Christians: they simultaneously reject the idea of changing their mind to conform to popular opinion while being subtly defensive and trying to use excuses like STIs to save themselves having to rely on 'because it says so in the Bible.'
    So let's be honest, since this was the real reason, in all of that text, why you believe this, not all the extras you've included to make it a stronger case for abstinence than it is:

    Which is a pretty nonsense reason to believe anything in my opinion but, even if you do as is your right to do, at least come clean about it instead of burying it in a lot of text and using reasons like STIs (come on, don't insinuate that anybody who isn't abstinent is riddled or will be riddled with STIs) to justify your view.
    You're being extremely judgemental at the moment. Wow.
    I mean, did you even read what I had written or what, did you do a quick skim read and saw the word 'God' and 'Christian' therefore assumed all I had said afterwards was complete rubbish and dishonest?
    I find it astonishing that out of all of the statements I had made, you only seemed to quote the one about God as I guess it is an easy target. I'm not even trying to judge you now but when people say things such as what you had said, it makes me hate labels even more and I lose respect for them. I always try to give people the benefit of doubt (not that you should care) and yes! I am a Christian but I also have a mind of my own...
    I am also socially and physically aware of the world out there. I beg your pardon? So Christians couldn't wait until marriage because of those other factors I had listed? That's absurd. I'm pretty sure with decisions you make, many factors influence them not just one. In that retrospect, yes God is the main reason to why I am waiting but there are many other factors which I had listed which hold equal significance and importance to why I am choosing to wait. Sigh. This is why I would rather say I have a relationship with God than I am a 'Christian' because things like this happen. It's actually very typical. I bet if I used those factors but said I was an atheist, you would think it was all legit and true.

    No, it's not a nonsense reason. To someone who is a theist and believes in a God (Christian-Judo God) it is not a nonsense reason. Just because you may disbelieve in a God does not discredit how I and others feel about God. You mean to YOU it's a nonsense reason as it's your own personal opinion.
    You came to a Christian thread, I mean anyone who is sensible enough will understand and note some sort of religious references will be expected and made in the responses. I can't deal with people such as you. If you would actually like to state a point towards me, in the future avoid all of the prejudgements and claims about myself I never knew about. Seriously.
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    Okay, before I go into this, I'd just like to say: you assumed a lot in that post. I didn't say anything about sex being natural or not. I replied to one specific part of your post, which I put in bold. :/

    (Original post by Cherry82)
    Ok. Well, firstly- I did not claim that wanting to have sex is not natural. It is natural to want to have sex and sex is not this bad thing that Christians hate. There is a key difference in the two. But just to put it out there, I despise being labelled and objectified to be honest.
    I didn't claim any of that, nor did I label or objectify you.

    This whole idea that we are just sexified, sex crazed, mammals who just want sex and more sex is what aggravates me.
    Unfortunately for you, we are. We may have developed brains big enough to think but we are just 'sexified, sex crazed mammals.' Whether that aggravates you has no bearing on whether it's true or not. Nature exists independent of the feelings of humans.

    Like I and others are more than that- we have emotions, thoughts, ideas and options. Why I think humans are so amazing and different from other species is because we have the ability to make decisions and not just act out on things based on instincts.We have the power to say yes or no, deciding how we want our lives to be.
    Other animals have the power to make decisions too. They just have different wants (namely to survive and pass on their genes) to most humans. I don't agree with your anthropocentrism - we are nothing more than clusters of space dust on a slightly larger cluster of space dust. It scares some people because they're scared by the lack of 'meaning' - whatever that is - but that is the way it is, as far as we can tell at the present time. Sure, we're smarter than some of the other space dust but that doesn't translate to a higher 'amazement factor', if you'll pardon the expression.

    Imagine our world if everyone purely acted on instincts, I don't think we would survive if that happened and I know it's a bold statement to make but it's true.
    I'm sorry, but what? We would definitely (continue to) survive if we acted purely on our instincts. Of course, life would generally be boring if we did, because there's not much excitement in our instincts anyway.

    Thank God for laws that influence people's decisions too. Though we are supposedly made to want to procreate with many partners as possible in terms of survival etc, there's a reason why many of us choose in today's society, monogamous relationships.
    In most cases, people are following tradition. From a young age, most people are brought up to think that there is a 'normal' path through life, namely getting a good education, a good job, getting married, raising kids and then retiring. There is some overlap with religion in the sense that most people follow the religion of their parents anyway so, in those cases, both religion and tradition are at play. I personally see this as putting children in a mind prison of sorts.

    Just acting out of impulse for many things is not wise, I see it the same way with wanting to have sex. I would have to analyse, think, making decisions.
    More or less agree with this.

    In terms of being natural, I just wanted to say it's also natural to not want to have sex. So it's natural to want and to not want sex.
    I'm sorry, but this is simply not right. Wanting to have sex is natural; not wanting to have sex is an anomaly in nature. What I think people often do is confuse the words 'natural' and 'good' or 'morally right.' To say that something isn't natural isn't to say that it's bad or objectionable. In fact, to appeal to nature in arguing for or against a proposition is a recognised fallacy. So when I say that not wanting to have sex is unnatural (or at least not very common in nature), that is no insult to asexuals or anybody else who doesn't want to have sex.

    This is towards my Asexuals friends out there, hey! Though I am not Asexual, in case someone Asexual was reading this, I thought it would be great to touch on the other side of things in case if you were wondering if so and so is normal or natural. You're lovely the way you are x
    Neither normal nor natural, actually. But acceptable and not 'wrong' in any sense of the word. You don't need to be doing what's natural to be lovely.

    All in all, I think you're being quite romantic in your outlook (no offence intended). There's little to no reason to think that there is much meaning of the kind you like to see in human lives.
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    (Original post by picklescamp)
    well, it's heteronormative What can you call sex? Many people do not consider something sex unless it involves a man’s penis and a woman’s vagina. By this definition some gay people remain “virgins” their entire lives, as what they do is not actually considered sex. People think a woman's hymen needs to be intact for them to be a virgin, when in fact it naturally stretches and breaks beforehand in many cases, meaning they don't bleed when they 'lose' their virginity and as such you have no way of telling if they are, biologically, a 'virgin'. Also that word 'lose'. I don't think having sex results in me losing anything, or giving anything to someone else. It's not a transaction and you're not getting the rough end of the deal by having consensual sex. You're gaining a connection and hopefully a lot of enjoyment!
    Oh I understand what you are saying now. Again, I agree and disagree to some extent. I do love how you stated that you're gaining a connection- that was beautiful. I'm still definitely going to wait until I am married! Not that you said I should not but overall you addressed some very important topics that should be addressed.
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    You are not alone OP, I know many people who have the same belief as you do. x
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Dat formatting. O.o
    haha ikr, thought the same
    • #3
    #3

    Good luck OP. It's great that you're able to live to God's standards rather than the world's. Unfortunately I'd say you've come to the wrong place for help and advise on this kind of thing. Most people on here are very young and secular and will not really understand where you're coming from. They'll just make out like the Bible doesn't say this and that, blah blah and descend into off-topic argument. Every time I've posted any kind of Christian view, I've been slated and told what's what by people who have no idea at all about what Christianity is and have never picked up a Bible or set foot in Church in their lives. Well I hope you hold firm. Pray about it and ask the Lord to give you strength.
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    (Original post by Cherry82)
    You're being extremely judgemental at the moment. Wow.
    I don't really know what people mean when they say somebody's being judgemental. It seems to me like the sort of word people come up with to stigmatise critique. But there we go.

    I mean, did you even read what I had written or what, did you do a quick skim read and saw the word 'God' and 'Christian' therefore assumed all I had said afterwards was complete rubbish and dishonest?
    Yes, I did read all of it. For somebody who's accusing me of assuming things and being judgemental, you seem remarkably willing and able to do the same yourself. I read all of it and objected to the bit that didn't make sense. What's wrong with that? You cannot seriously claim that the STI reason derives from your Christian beliefs - they didn't know anything about STIs or how diseases are spread in the time of Jesus or Moses (you did say Christian-Judo god, so I figured I should include Moses).

    I find it astonishing that out of all of the statements I had made, you only seemed to quote the one about God as I guess it is an easy target.
    Okay, first of all: I quoted the entire post and then pointed out one particular part that I was referring to. Normally I would just highlight the part I was talking about by putting it in bold or underlining it but your post was very heavily formatted so that wasn't an option - the only thing I could do to indicate which bit I was referring to was to take the sentence out and quote it separately.

    Second of all: no, it's not because it's an 'easy target' although, if it was, I don't see what would be wrong with criticising it. Just because a target is easy doesn't mean it shouldn't be criticised. I went for the bit that I thought was wrong; easy and difficult didn't come into it.

    I'm not even trying to judge you now but when people say things such as what you had said, it makes me hate labels even more and I lose respect for them. I always try to give people the benefit of doubt (not that you should care) and yes! I am a Christian but I also have a mind of my own...
    You've presupposed a lot. I still don't know what you mean by 'judge.' It still sounds to me like a way of stigmatising criticism, and I don't have much patience for that sort of tactic, if I'm honest. Nor did I say that being Christian and having a mind of one's own are mutually exclusive phenomena.

    I am also socially and physically aware of the world out there. I beg your pardon? So Christians couldn't wait until marriage because of those other factors I had listed? That's absurd.
    Of course they could. But to try to use a good scientific reason such as the spread of disease to further what is clearly a non-scientific view bothers me because it's a dishonest tactic and one that I think is important to point out.

    I'm pretty sure with decisions you make, many factors influence them not just one. In that retrospect, yes God is the main reason to why I am waiting but there are many other factors which I had listed which hold equal significance and importance to why I am choosing to wait.
    Thank you. That's all I wanted you to admit. It seemed somewhat dishonest of you not to make that clear in your original post.

    Sigh. This is why I would rather say I have a relationship with God than I am a 'Christian' because things like this happen. It's actually very typical. I bet if I used those factors but said I was an atheist, you would think it was all legit and true.
    I'm not doubting the validity of the factors themselves, merely that it seemed like an attempt to justify a religious view with a scientific reason. It's perfectly fine to have both, so long as you state that that is what you're doing and not make a list of reasons why premarital sex is bad on religious grounds and throw in a couple of reasons that clearly have nothing to do with your religion (since how diseases are spread wasn't well understood at the time).

    You're showing signs of a victim complex here. Surprising, despite claiming that you presume nothing, you've just presumed that I would give special treatment to an atheist. No need to feel as though you're being attacked just because you're religious. I assure you: I hold anyone and everyone to the same standards of logic.

    No, it's not a nonsense reason. To someone who is a theist and believes in a God (Christian-Judo God) it is not a nonsense reason. Just because you may disbelieve in a God does not discredit how I and others feel about God. You mean to YOU it's a nonsense reason as it's your own personal opinion.
    That's what I mean and that's what I said. You're just deliberately misreading it now. :/ Here's what I said, and I'll underline the key bit that I think you missed.

    Which is a pretty nonsense reason to believe anything in my opinion but, even if you do as is your right to do, at least come clean about it instead of burying it in a lot of text and using reasons like STIs (come on, don't insinuate that anybody who isn't abstinent is riddled or will be riddled with STIs) to justify your view.
    You came to a Christian thread, I mean anyone who is sensible enough will understand and note some sort of religious references will be expected and made in the responses. I can't deal with people such as you. If you would actually like to state a point towards me, in the future avoid all of the prejudgements and claims about myself I never knew about. Seriously.
    I didn't object to religious references being made. You've assumed that, yet again. It's amazing that you accuse me of making prejudgements and claims about you that you don't know about and yet have made perhaps a dozen or two about myself in this post. Whatever happened to practice what you preach?

    Also, the thread doesn't have a religion. It's not sentient.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I'm a Christian although not a virgin . You need to look for a guy who is a Christian so they'll share your values. They'll be more likely to accept your commitment and focus on God together.
    Basically this

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    Greek Orthodox knight checking in.
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    (Original post by Ser Alex Toyne)
    Greek Orthodox knight checking in.
    Ορθοδοξία η θάνατος!
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    (Original post by anonymouspie227)
    People saying how essentially sex within marriage protects you from pregnancy and STDs. Watch how your spouse will have sex with someone else and infects you, see how you can have unwanted pregnancy in marriage. The sanctity of marriage isn't a thing. The only difference is, you will probably be clueless about sex when you get married which will leave you open to unwanted pregnancy and STDs etc

    Like I don't care what people do but the ridiculous focus on sex as if waiting will somehow make you have a better marriage is too much. As if waiting will make your relationship stronger. **** can still go wrong. We need to stop romanticising how great marriage is- because it can be horrible, and you haven't failed if it doesn't go well.
    PRSOM.
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    [QUOTE=Hydeman;59404925 [/QUOTE]

    Mind me, I would like to use your own quotes also to explain my proposition. Initially, I was not taking our whole conversation seriously and I will admit, I did reply at times recklessly. However now I believe it is time to actually break down everything to thoroughly explain what I believe and my own statements.

    'Okay, before I go into this, I'd just like to say: you assumed a lot in that post. I didn't say anything about sex being natural or not. I replied to one specific part of your post, which I put in bold. :/

    Why I began speaking about sex and it being natural is because human/animal instincts are natural and as you had stated- sex is an instinct therefore it is natural. I was not saying that you had said any thing about sex being natural or not...in fact I was going speaking purely off the fact that you had touched on instincts then derived into sub topics where I had shared my own opinions. Moreover I was trying to say, so what if wanting sex is instinctual? What are you trying to say with this point? I am saying does that mean that because it is instinctual we should not have boundaries and just give into these wants or 'needs'. I was saying just because something is instinctual does not mean that we give into it without thinking or making rational decisions. Fear and anger are emotions that go under the category of human instincts. But even when these instincts set in, we overcome them, deciding how we use these instincts.

    An example is feeling anxious and fearful because of upcoming, intensive exam- we prepare for the exam and have hopes of doing well though we never do actually have a clue to what will exactly appear on it. Although people may be afraid of sitting the exam, they study and still sit the exam conquering the fear felt prior to the exam. Why people do this is because they know it will affect their future outcomes one way or another- whether affecting their places at university or needing certain amount of grades to enter their desired university. Another example is when your loved one makes you angry. I would not lash out and punch my younger brother when he does something to anger me but rather I would take into account that sometimes he does not know better and I will speak to him about how I feel so that we could sort out what went wrong without violence as I love him. A better outcome would come out of us communicating through calmly speaking than us fighting and me punching him- I do not want to hurt him. You see, we make decisions and overcome our instincts and initial reactions because we know it will bring the better, it will bring a better out come and it avoids other people getting hurt.
    These emotions are instinctual- please research this. Research lists of human instincts, any thing and you'll see that these are indeed instinctual.

    'Unfortunately for you, we are. We may have developed brains big enough to think but we are just 'sexified, sex crazed mammals.' Whether that aggravates you has no bearing on whether it's true or not. Nature exists independent of the feelings of humans.'

    Even if we are, and so? What does this mean? Even if we are sex crazed mammals does that mean we should just have sex without making rational decisions? I do not understand your own proposition to be honest. I mean if we just went off those basis, not saying you claimed this, but going solely on the basis of us being sexually driven does that mean we should just have sex without really giving it a thought since we are sex crazed mammals.
    I think there would be many problems with that. We're already dealing with over population, I do not think we need more people added to the equation. If everyone just gave in to having sex with whoever, I know me personally I would have sex with all of the guys I had found attractive which were many. Not only would this open me up to a higher risk of pregnancy but it will also open me to a higher risk of STIs. (Not all a curable so no thank you)

    People easily forget that jealousy is also a human instinct. People want monogamous relationships that rely on loyalty. Humans have emotions. If we were in a perfect world where everyone was emotionless- we could get away with living that way. It would be ok to just go loose and have sex with whoever and whenever we want. But there are consequences for the actions we make whether good or bad. Again, If I said to myself because we are sexually driven, it's ok for me to have a one night stand with a complete stranger, I would have to deal with consequences later on. As I know how I am naturally, I am a sensitive being and I catch feelings easily therefore having a night one stand with a complete stranger who feels otherwise would not be a wise decision because I would only get hurt. 'Nature exists independent of the feelings of humans'? What!! Feelings and emotions co-exist with human instincts, there are instinctual. This I know- please do your research and tell me what you had read. Seriously. Overall though, even if we are as you have stated, sexual driven so what? What are you trying to say or justify?

    'Other animals have the power to make decisions too. They just have different wants (namely to survive and pass on their genes) to most humans. I don't agree with your anthropocentrism - we are nothing more than clusters of space dust on a slightly larger cluster of space dust. It scares some people because they're scared by the lack of 'meaning' - whatever that is - but that is the way it is, as far as we can tell at the present time. Sure, we're smarter than some of the other space dust but that doesn't translate to a higher 'amazement factor', if you'll pardon the expression.'

    Well that is great. Well I see human beings more than 'clusters of space'. I have love and care for human beings and animals. We have relationships, we laugh, cry, think, create, love, hate. We are more than just 'clusters of space'. We are made up of 'clusters of space' but we have more to us as see the world we've also created. More so as a Christian too (though I hate labels as I have repeatedly stated but wanting to be politically correct) I see human beings more than what you have stated. This is my own views not yours whether you or any one else likes it or not. I believe in the physical and the spiritual!

    'I'm sorry, but what? We would definitely (continue to) survive if we acted purely on our instincts. Of course, life would generally be boring if we did, because there's not much excitement in our instincts anyway.'

    Ok before I even touch on this point, what do you mean by if we 'acted purely on our instincts' and please give examples. Preferably ones relating to our main topic of discussion. What I had meant previously, I am very certain could be entirely different from what you mean or are trying to state.


    'In most cases, people are following tradition. From a young age, most people are brought up to think that there is a 'normal' path through life, namely getting a good education, a good job, getting married, raising kids and then retiring. There is some overlap with religion in the sense that most people follow the religion of their parents anyway so, in those cases, both religion and tradition are at play. I personally see this as putting children in a mind prison of sorts.'

    I agree with you on the comments about tradition. But please note, there are christians who do not fit this category. Me including. I am not someone who became Christian because of their parents. I disagree with this as I believe your relationship with God is personal- it is between you and God not you, your parents, who ever and God. You can't inherit a relationship but make one. People of today 'inherit' there parent's religion rather than thinking independently and analysing why they believe in something. I know many people who call themselves Christians and Muslims because of their parents which I am against.

    'I'm sorry, but this is simply not right. Wanting to have sex is natural; not wanting to have sex is an anomaly in nature. What I think people often do is confuse the words 'natural' and 'good' or 'morally right.' To say that something isn't natural isn't to say that it's bad or objectionable. In fact, to appeal to nature in arguing for or against a proposition is a recognised fallacy. So when I say that not wanting to have sex is unnatural (or at least not very common in nature), that is no insult to asexuals or anybody else who doesn't want to have sex.'

    Ok, Would you mind providing a source that I could read that claims this? It is not that I am trying to disagree with you but I am interested. Please provide a reliable source that proves this to be true. I will read it and I will be thankful too as I would learn something new.

    'Neither normal nor natural, actually. But acceptable and not 'wrong' in any sense of the word. You don't need to be doing what's natural to be lovely. All in all, I think you're being quite romantic in your outlook (no offence intended). There's little to no reason to think that there is much meaning of the kind you like to see in human lives.'

    Fine. Maybe I did not use the correct wordings appropriate for certain situations and areas. But all I was trying to say, which you had said for me, is that being Asexual is perfectly ok.
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    'I don't really know what people mean when they say somebody's being judgemental. It seems to me like the sort of word people come up with to stigmatise critique. But there we go.'
    'Yes, I did read all of it. For somebody who's accusing me of assuming things and being judgemental, you seem remarkably willing and able to do the same yourself. I read all of it and objected to the bit that didn't make sense. What's wrong with that? You cannot seriously claim that the STI reason derives from your Christian beliefs - they didn't know anything about STIs or how diseases are spread in the time of Jesus or Moses (you did say Christian-Judo god, so I figured I should include Moses).'

    Well allow me to explain that to you. You were making generalisations and prejudgements without actually knowing who I am and what I personally believe in. Yes, I am a Christian but not all Christians believe in the same thing. We are more complex than people think and we can disagree on things within the community. I had said this because prior you had stated- 'Christianity doesn't preach premarital abstinence because of STIs and to pretend like that's part of the reason why you have this view is to look like somebody with a weak case hoping to make it strong. So let's be honest, since this was the real reason, in all of that text, why you believe this, not all the extras you've included to make it a stronger case for abstinence than it is:'
    What is this? You made generalisations because I called myself a Christian and tried saying why I have this view was only because of my beliefs in a God. No. Other factors influenced this decision surprisingly which I had listed. For you to then turn around to try and say those were not my reasons for having this view was judgemental and invalid because I was actually being truthful.
    Of course as a Christian, I will consider the God I believe in as I am a Christian- but there is no hiding it or hiding that it influences my decisions., It should be no surprise that this influences my decisions to some extent. But what do you expect, wow a Christian who believes in sex before marriage is wrong because their God said so, what a huge surprise. In addition, just because this is a reason that influences my decision on waiting- it does not discredit the other reasons for why I believe this. This was what I was trying to say.

    In the same way, I'm sure you have your views because you do not believe in a God. I understand that you are an atheist so I do not expect you to believe sex before marriage is a sin as this is non existent to you. This is not generalising but quoting beliefs. I have met some atheists though very few who wanted to want until marriage until having sex but not one disagreed with not waiting if they happened to have sex before marriage. None saw it as a sin because they did not believe sin existed. You do not believe in a God so I cannot expect you to say that not waiting until marriage is a sin or that you disagree with it because God says so. You can't really agree with something you do not believe in. Now put that in context with me, flip it around and hopefully you can now understand me. I do believe in a God therefore my decisions of course would be influenced by this. It's funny because Christians and Atheists are almost the same in a strange way- different beliefs/views but both can be biased.

    Second of all: no, it's not because it's an 'easy target' although, if it was, I don't see what would be wrong with criticising it. Just because a target is easy doesn't mean it shouldn't be criticised. I went for the bit that I thought was wrong; easy and difficult didn't come into it.

    It was an easy target and very typical. I mean an atheist pointing out a theist, Christian believing in no sex before marriage because of their reasons that are partly influenced by their beliefs in a God. My, how fascinating. You can criticise whatever you like. You thought it was 'wrong' because you do not believe in a God. I do therefore I think it is right, I'm sure you know this.

    'You've presupposed a lot. I still don't know what you mean by 'judge.' It still sounds to me like a way of stigmatising criticism, and I don't have much patience for that sort of tactic, if I'm honest. Nor did I say that being Christian and having a mind of one's own are mutually exclusive phenomena.'

    You tried to insinuate that the only reason why I believe in waiting until marriage is the right way of doing things is because of my beliefs in God. When I had stated the other reasons, you had accused me of trying to 'pretend' as if the other reasons mattered, as if those reasons I had stated did not matter or influence my decision in likewise to my belief in God. This is a judgement. In the correct terms being prejudice as you were stating a preconceived idea, a generalisation. Rather you should have asked me, are these actually the reasons to why you have these views than making a conclusion. A conclusion that the other reasons held no significance instead only my belief in God is the only reason for why I am for waiting until marriage.

    'Of course they could. But to try to use a good scientific reason such as the spread of disease to further what is clearly a non-scientific view bothers me because it's a dishonest tactic and one that I think is important to point out.'

    I mean for goodness sake? Now can you evidently see what I am saying? Non scientific view? What does that even mean?! Look science examines the physical world. It does not address morality- what we are speaking about goes under the category of morals. So I would ask questions such as is so and so morally right? Not is so and so scientifically correct. So of course waiting until marriage is a non scientific view...so is murder. Science does not tell us what is morally correct or not, it does not deal with morality or whether is it ok to kill someone or not, these are all ethical issues not scientific issues or views. Dishonest tactic? So I am being 'dishonest' for honestly stating my reasons for why I am for waiting until marriage to have sex. Hmmm, confusing.

    'Thank you. That's all I wanted you to admit. It seemed somewhat dishonest of you not to make that clear in your original post.'

    I mean was not stating 'As a Christian, I believe it is the correct way to do things as Yahweh said so' clear enough. Come on. (By the way this was a quote from my original post.)

    'I'm not doubting the validity of the factors themselves, merely that it seemed like an attempt to justify a religious view with a scientific reason. It's perfectly fine to have both, so long as you state that that is what you're doing and not make a list of reasons why premarital sex is bad on religious grounds and throw in a couple of reasons that clearly have nothing to do with your religion (since how diseases are spread wasn't well understood at the time).

    But why can't they validate a religious view? I do not understand what you are trying to say. If these are valid reasons, they are valid reasons regardless. I purely stated some of the reasons to why I believe in waiting until marriage to have sex- I do not have to now differentiate religious reasons and non religious reasons (though I did, I had stated in my original post- 'But looking away from Christian views'. Overall, who said all of my reasons have to be religious or fit one category? Religious people can think rationally and not just feed of religious practices. I know this may surprise some but religious beliefs can correlate to non religious ideas. They deal with everyday problems, issues and topics. I do not think it is fair that you are trying to claim that it is somehow wrong for me to use non religious reasons with my own religious beliefs and that I have to different the two. Who cares. I hate being limited or put inside a box that tries to limit what I can and can not say. Just stop.

    'You're showing signs of a victim complex here. Surprising, despite claiming that you presume nothing, you've just presumed that I would give special treatment to an atheist. No need to feel as though you're being attacked just because you're religious. I assure you: I hold anyone and everyone to the same standards of logic. '

    Be completely honest with me. Would you have still thought I was trying to 'pretend' those other reasons mattered if I was an atheist and not Christian?
    I do not think it is presuming but simply making an observation. I had observed the way you approached me. I did not like it. Yea sure, whatever.

    'I didn't object to religious references being made. You've assumed that, yet again. It's amazing that you accuse me of making prejudgements and claims about you that you don't know about and yet have made perhaps a dozen or two about myself in this post. Whatever happened to practice what you preach? Also, the thread doesn't have a religion. It's not sentient.'

    You kind of did, do I need to remind you again? Ok.
    I may be a hypocrite as everyone is a hypocrite one way or another. But one thing I am definitely sure about is that you had preconceived views and inaccurate conclusions from the previous posts you had posted.
    'Also, the thread doesn't have a religion'- I never said that it did. What I had meant by a 'Christian thread' was that the title is 'Christians on TSR: Advice please' therefore of course religious ideas and references would be made as the OP is a Christian and is searching for other Christians. This thread is based on a Christian, religious topic. This is why I was stating and asking what did you expect...
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    Don't feel alone. I also believe in no sex before marriage. I think nowadays everyone is rushing for no reason. IMO those types of relationships aren't strong and are more likely to end early.
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    (Original post by anonymouspie227)
    People saying how essentially sex within marriage protects you from pregnancy and STDs. Watch how your spouse will have sex with someone else and infects you, see how you can have unwanted pregnancy in marriage. The sanctity of marriage isn't a thing. The only difference is, you will probably be clueless about sex when you get married which will leave you open to unwanted pregnancy and STDs etc

    Like I don't care what people do but the ridiculous focus on sex as if waiting will somehow make you have a better marriage is too much. As if waiting will make your relationship stronger. **** can still go wrong. We need to stop romanticising how great marriage is- because it can be horrible, and you haven't failed if it doesn't go well.
    Watch how YOUR spouse will have sex with someone else and infect you. Let us not hide that this could happen to someone who does or does not wait until marriage to have sex. It could happen to any one. I have faith in my future husband though I do not know him and I hope he will be loyal to me. In the same way, I am sure you wish the same with your own partner or husband if you choose to get married. Please do not wish such for me because I am deciding to wait or act as if not having sex until marriage does not lower my risks or receiving STIs. You know that it is true that someone who is sexually active and sexually active with various partners has a higher risk of receiving a STI than someone who is not having sex at all. Clueless about sex when you get married? What such rubbish. Inexperienced yes but clueless? My God. I can't any more. It's funny because though I am not sexually active, my sexually active friends come to me for advice and questions surrounding sex because they know that I am informed in these areas. It's actually the other way round to be honest. Being Christian you would want to know a lot about sex because you are not actually having any so you do a lot of research and reading to have a bettering understanding and to make a decision on what you agree or disagree with.

    I am just stating, though this is quite an old post(2011) please check it out:
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...kes-better-sex
    No one has really taken time out to do a study on this so only few studies address this topic and issue. I wish more studies did so that people could have a better idea of the effects. All I am saying is this- I will always respect a man who can love a woman so passionately and romantically to the point he marries her without sleeping with her at all. Why I am emphasising on the men is because of the social pressures they did with. Of course women deal with this too as OP has expressed her own experiences but my goodness, men are constantly held at a pedestal. If a guy said out in the open that he was a virgin, he will most likely receive negative comments and reactions compared to a girl who said that she was a virgin. Guys are expected to want sex constantly but girls are expected to be the less sex driven gender. I hate all of that. For girls, I've heard and read comments claiming she's wife material and for guys it's oh he is such a loser. Why can't both be 'wife/husband material'? This alpha male image that is placed on men makes them ashamed at times to say that they are virgins. Sadly many guys use 'you can't get girls' as an insult which I think is bull crap. Double standards suck.

    Just wanted to address that, not that you said anything addressing these issues of double standards. In conclusion marriage can be horrible- I mean two different people making a life term commitment, it's expected. But it does not mean that it cannot be awesome and beautiful also. Stop saying it as if marriage is only horrible, there are lovely sides to it too. I know this because of my very own grandparents and parents. I've seen amazing, great marriages that are not so horrible
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    This is not me trying to single you out but address an important issue.
    As you had listed all of the religious practices you had went through, this does not confirm a person being Christian. I am not saying that you were not indeed a Christian, I do not know.
    Ok, yes I understand you were ‘Catholic’ but I have realised that these are nothing more than labels and names. A Catholic today could be ‘Catholic’ without actually being a Christian. There are 'Catholics' out there who are are actually atheists. Maybe you really were a Christian who had a relationship with God and did not just believe in God because of their parents, or wanting to fit in as I know many ‘Christians’ who only believe because of what their parents. Now thinking about it, there are actually many atheists in the Christian community who call themselves Christians for various reasons either than actually following and believing in Jesus Christ which is fundamental to the Christian faith. So when people say things to somehow validate their credibility as Christians, it does not phase me. Of course, I am in no position to say who is and who is not a real Christian but Christianity really is not about works. Yes, we are told to avoid sin and love people but someone could do all of those things and even the things you had stated and still be an unbeliever.

    Now addressing what you had said about the bible being written a long time ago. It is true that the bible is at least two thousand years old but because something is ancient and ‘old’ does that mean we should disregard it entirely? There are many things that would fit ‘old’ but I would not say that these things should be disregarded. Updated? Maybe but many issues would rise if Christians of today wanted to update the bible. There has to be a foundation, things that remain the same even when times are changing. If things changed constantly, the bible will lose its credibility in the Christian community and significance- instead it would be deemed as no longer true or no longer as ‘the word of God’. With all due respect, I understand that atheists already believe that the bible is untrue, inaccurate and forever changing. That is there own opinions and some of this is true to some extent (I know I have said this many times). What I do not appreciate though is the lack of consideration. (Not you sorry, this was to the other speakers above)
    Controlling people? Well you can interpret Christianity or religion as a whole in that way. But as I believe that I have a relationship with God, I do not. I see it that he wants the utmost best for me. I do not think that he is trying to control me, regardless of what some atheists may think- I have freewill and a choice. You’re talking about the Catholic church. Though I do attend Catholic churches, and I have done all of those religious practices you have stated (not that this matters)- I do not address myself as Catholic. Surprising? I also go to Pentecostal and evangelical churches where sermons are completely different to Catholic churches to hear other interpretations of topics. I love it. There are many things within the Catholic church that I disagree with personally too. I wish everyone would read the bible together, just as in the pentecostal churches.
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    Ok. I have realised that I am spending way too much time that I do not even have, on this topic. I have close to 14 exams coming up in May/June so I need to focus on studying and learning material. My wish is that more of those who actually identity themselves as Christians or better off are actually Christians answer your questions OP. As I am sure I will receive many responses later on, I will try to reply to all them individually but not as soon as possible. I can not afford to spend so much time on this yet, not when I have other priorities sitting, waiting for me to attend to on the table lol. God bless you all, especially you OP. My love goes out to you. It is ok to be different and things will be ok. Yes, many people are deciding not to wait. In fact, it is normal to have sex outside of marriage as normal means 'conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected'. But this does not mean that is it right either or the correct way to approach things. Not everything that is 'normal' is right and it depends on what individuals mean by 'right' and 'wrong'. I would like to say to you, you define what is morally right or wrong. I wish you the best with everything and please know, you're not the only one waiting. I and others are too (male and female!)
 
 
 
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