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    (Original post by Katty3)
    My family will lose out significantly. We have no games consoles, old computers, cheap phones and only a TV licence.

    We will lose £400 a month. We can't save in other areas. The help is being cut from under us. Tax credits are what keep us afloat. The help isn't there.

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    I don't understand how you can be taxed that much then, if your family aren't making enough to pay that tax?😂


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    (Original post by JessThomas6)
    I don't understand how you can be taxed that much then, if your family aren't making enough to pay that tax?😂


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    We're a large family so we have a lot of outgoings.

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    (Original post by Katty3)
    We're a large family so we have a lot of outgoings.

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    You must be able to save on things like gas, electricity, etc.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    You must be able to save on things like gas, electricity, etc.
    How? You still need to cook. Do you expect people to sit in the dark? It is already becoming quite common for people to sit in freezing houses with no heating. When our boiler broke down last winter we had a couple of days without heating. It was utter misery. You should try it sometime.

    Even so, you have got to be pushing it to be able to save £400 a month in energy.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    How? You still need to cook. Do you expect people to sit in the dark? It is already becoming quite common for people to sit in freezing houses with no heating. When our boiler broke down last winter we had a couple of days without heating. It was utter misery. You should try it sometime.

    Even so, you have got to be pushing it to be able to save £400 a month in energy.
    Switch suppliers?

    In all honesty, I don't get the issue at all. From April, a huge chunk of my benefits will freeze for 4 years. At some point, I could lose up to 3 grand a year. But unlike most people, I can't work.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    Switch suppliers?
    If your energy costs are £100 a month, how is switching suppliers going to save £400? The person in question here is going to lose £400 a month. If I had £400 cut out of my budget we would also go under. Fortunately for us we are not at the mercy of the government. I really feel for those who have had the rug pulled out from under them.
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    People appear to be forgetting that whilst tax credits are being cut, there's the introduction of the living wage, plus the rise of tax and national insurance contributions.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    People appear to be forgetting that whilst tax credits are being cut, there's the introduction of the living wage, plus the rise of tax and national insurance contributions.
    According to the institute for fiscal studies, it is arithmetically impossible for the raising of the minimum wage to compensate for the cuts in tax credits.

    This is a nice way of saying that David Cameron is a lying Tory scumbag.

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    (Original post by OU Student)
    You must be able to save on things like gas, electricity, etc.
    Not £400 worth. We need electricity to power the oven, the lights, the fridge etc. We need gas for the cooker and boiler.

    Even if we can make savings, it will never add up to £400. We all need to be fed and clothed, we need to pay for my mum's prescriptions, need to pay the mortgage, insurance, for my parents cars (which they need for their jobs), transport to school and college.

    How can they expect us to find £400 out of nowhere? We don't have expensive tastes, we don't drink or smoke so there is nowhere to save money.

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    (Original post by Katty3)
    According to the institute for fiscal studies, it is arithmetically impossible for the raising of the minimum wage to compensate for the cuts in tax credits.

    This is a nice way of saying that David Cameron is a lying Tory scumbag.

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    In certain cases. Some people will be better off, some will be worse off.
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    (Original post by Katty3)
    Not £400 worth. We need electricity to power the oven, the lights, the fridge etc. We need gas for the cooker and boiler.

    Even if we can make savings, it will never add up to £400. We all need to be fed and clothed, we need to pay for my mum's prescriptions, need to pay the mortgage, insurance, for my parents cars (which they need for their jobs), transport to school and college.

    How can they expect us to find £400 out of nowhere? We don't have expensive tastes, we don't drink or smoke so there is nowhere to save money.

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    What is your family income and how many people are in the household?
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    In an ideal society, there would be no need for food banks and tax credits to prop people up. People would earn enough money to survive and prosper. Reality is different. For the low skilled workers, they dont earn enough on minimum wage to survive and live an enjoyable life. That is why they needed tax credits. If you shifted the cost to employers and had them increase wages to cover the effect of tax credits, this would never be an issue. As it is, that wont happen because businesses are all about margins and paying employees a little more slightly reduces those margins.
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    (Original post by Katty3)
    We will lose £400 a month.
    I don't see how that is credible. How much do you receive in tax credits annually at present?

    (Original post by Katty3)
    According to the institute for fiscal studies, it is arithmetically impossible for the raising of the minimum wage to compensate for the cuts in tax credits.

    This is a nice way of saying that David Cameron is a lying Tory scumbag.
    I'm sorry, but that's entirely false assertion and a misrepresentation of what the IFS said. For many people, the National Living Wage will indeed compensate full tax credit losses. It obviously depends how many hours people work and what tax credits they are currently entitled to.
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    This is a bit like the Poll Tax in that it is a Conservative government decision to do something that will materially affect a lot of Conservative voters in the pocket, which generally Conservatives are careful to do because it's so electorally toxic. A lot of voters only take a partial interest in political debate but they do notice when they stand to lose chunks of money themselves, and usually the Tories are careful to be on the right side on this one: in the election campaign Cameron talked about how the "cuts" Ed Miliband wanted to make were a cut to people's monthly take home pay. They have been pushing for increasing the tax threshold to take people out of paying income tax to try and give lower income voters a reason to support the Conservatives, and also moves to raise the NMW for over 25s are also in this direction.

    The problem with the cuts to working families tax credit are:
    1 - the sums a lot of families stand to lose will outweigh gains from tax changes and NMW
    2 - tax credits were basically a Labour policy, and so the Conservatives will lose political capital amongst those who are negatively affected
    3 - the people who are affected are working families, who are a group the Conservatives are wanting to champion, they can't paint them as scroungers

    There's also a potential trap for Cameron and the Tories to end up looking disconnected and out of touch here. A lot of people are angry because they stand to lose considerable sums of money. They are going to start taking an interest on this issue even if they don't follow much politics in general and they will be observing Cameron to see if he is taking it seriously. Now when Labour politicians are challenging him about it, is he going to actively show that he understands the situation, or is he going to be saying things like "we don't need to take lessons from Labour on how to run the economy" or even worse trot out some statistics saying "most people will be better off as a result of these changes" which basically says "no this is not a problem".

    One of the worst ways to lose political support is to try and deny there is a problem when a lot of people actually have the hard evidence on the ground.

    I think if Osborne is the shrewd tactician his growing reputation suggests, he will find a way to mitigate this at the next Budget and quietly switch tactics rather than bulldozing on with it like Thatcher with Poll Tax.
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    How about they take some money of the people who actually have money? Oh wait... I forgot the Tory's like taking money of the most venerable people in our society..
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    (Original post by RuWill2001)
    How about they take some money of the people who actually have money? Oh wait... I forgot the Tory's like taking money of the most venerable people in our society..
    My parents earn a decent wage by working thousands of hours a year, most of their work going to pay employees and they don't see enough rewards for how long they work
    Raising taxes would mean that them working so hard wouldn't be worth it and they'd literally have to work themselves to death to support our family (they both have stress related health conditions)
    Sometimes the people who have money deserve that money.


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    (Original post by Katty3)
    Not £400 worth. We need electricity to power the oven, the lights, the fridge etc. We need gas for the cooker and boiler.

    Even if we can make savings, it will never add up to £400. We all need to be fed and clothed, we need to pay for my mum's prescriptions, need to pay the mortgage, insurance, for my parents cars (which they need for their jobs), transport to school and college.

    How can they expect us to find £400 out of nowhere? We don't have expensive tastes, we don't drink or smoke so there is nowhere to save money.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    A pre payment certificate is £10 a month.

    Cycle to school and college instead or walk. You shouldn't need to buy clothes that often.

    If your parents wages really are that low, then surely the living wage coming in April would mean they wouldn't be losing that much in April plus the tax and NI thesholds.
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    (Original post by Katty3)
    According to the institute for fiscal studies, it is arithmetically impossible for the raising of the minimum wage to compensate for the cuts in tax credits.

    This is a nice way of saying that David Cameron is a lying Tory scumbag.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Would you mind awfully providing a link to the institute of Fiscal studies report that says that. Not a newspaper (the guardians opinion of it) but the actual report that backs up your claim.

    The institute of fiscal studies publish their reports and for the life of me I can't find the report that they've published that backs up what you say.

    I may be wrong, but I'm just saying that they don't appear to have published a report in their usual place that backs to up.:
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    (Original post by JessThomas6)
    My parents earn a decent wage by working thousands of hours a year, most of their work going to pay employees and they don't see enough rewards for how long they work
    Raising taxes would mean that them working so hard wouldn't be worth it and they'd literally have to work themselves to death to support our family (they both have stress related health conditions)
    Sometimes the people who have money deserve that money.


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    Very sorry to hear that your parents have stress health conditions. But I am not necessarily talking about raising taxes. Mansion tax?
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    A pre payment certificate is £10 a month.

    Cycle to school and college instead or walk. You shouldn't need to buy clothes that often.

    If your parents wages really are that low, then surely the living wage coming in April would mean they wouldn't be losing that much in April plus the tax and NI thesholds.
    Prepayment certificate worth looking into.
    There is no safe cycle route, and it's too far to walk. Also no bike lockers. I am quite uncomfortable riding in heavy traffic as I have very poor coordination and I've come off more than once.

    My brothers are both still growing so they need new clothes because they've grown out of the old ones. The age gap means hand me downs are unfeasible.

    Dad's self employed and mum earns more than the new higher minimum wage. So yes we will lose that much. Tax and NI will help a bit, but nowhere near as much as we'll lose from the loss of tax credits.

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