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    (Original post by ironandbeer2)
    Well let's take the banking sector for a start - all for a free market to do as they please most of the time yet bailed out by the State? Why? I wish the State WAS abolished you know because it'd show how the private sector can't function without both blaming it for everything then running to it for money. But that will never happen for said reasons.

    The billionaires should pay their taxes. They should pay their staff a livable wage. If they can't do these things, they shouldn't be making a penny of profit from my country and its workers.
    PARTICULARLY foreign owned or domiciled companies. Give corporate welfare to small British businesses who can be properly taxed and whose profits contribute to our GDP. It's time for fascism
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    (Original post by ironandbeer2)
    Apart from the rich, of course. Whom, fyi, aren't all working class heros who started with nothing. Far from it. No, they need incentives to stay - tax incentives, wage incentives, they need what they want, when they want it. Then they might pay the tax, but maybe not. And you're talking about someone on minimum wage as if they're greed personified.
    I do agree. I never once for a second said the rich deserve anything. This topic is about working tax credits. I also highlighted the plight of consolidation by corporations.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Do you have any concept of how much things cost. A parent on tax credits assuredly can't afford to buy a PS4 which is probably about 1/20th of their annual income. As a student supporting only myself I existed on an income equivalent to 16 hours minimum wage a year and I was skipping meals.
    Of course they can.

    1. Already own their own home.
    2. Housing benefits and everything thrown in.
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    If a business can't afford to pay its staff a decent wage then quite frankly it shouldn't be in business.
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    (Original post by ironandbeer2)
    Well let's take the banking sector for a start - all for a free market to do as they please most of the time yet bailed out by the State? Why? I wish the State WAS abolished you know because it'd show how the private sector can't function without both blaming it for everything then running to it for money. But that will never happen for said reasons.

    The billionaires should pay their taxes. They should pay their staff a livable wage. If they can't do these things, they shouldn't be making a penny of profit from my country and its workers.
    It is because "the state" exists which therefore allows the banks to so audaciously blackmail countries.

    Billionaires should pay their taxes, no doubt. However if governments push for higher living wages, billionaires nevertheless have the means to relocated to the Virgin Islands, and move their factories to China where workers will be far more cost efficient, leaving the country with less employment opportunities and less tax revenue collected.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    If a business can't afford to pay its staff a decent wage then quite frankly it shouldn't be in business.
    Amen! A business should make profit off the back of creativity, innovation, efficiency and providing a great service for both its customers and the wider community. This should not include treating workers with contempt.
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    (Original post by ironandbeer2)
    Well let's take the banking sector for a start - all for a free market to do as they please most of the time yet bailed out by the State? Why? I wish the State WAS abolished you know because it'd show how the private sector can't function without both blaming it for everything then running to it for money. But that will never happen for said reasons.

    The billionaires should pay their taxes. They should pay their staff a livable wage. If they can't do these things, they shouldn't be making a penny of profit from my country and its workers.
    What do you mean for a start? Most rants at 'the rich' pretty much start and stop at banks. All captains of industry and entrepreneurs are apparently stupid and foolish and should be punished because banks were reckless?
    As for why the banks were bailed out, it's because letting them fail would have been catastrophic and far worse.
    'The billionaires should pay their taxes' is a vague and meaningless statement. The rich do pay 'their taxes'. I have little doubt that you also take advantage of legal tax avoidance measures, such as duty free, as do millions of ordinary Britons. Clamp down on tax evasion- yes. Work to close tax loopholes- yes. But lets not pretend that your statement in any way shape or form comprehends the complexity of the situation.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    What do you mean for a start? Most rants at 'the rich' pretty much start and stop at banks. All captains of industry and entrepreneurs are apparently stupid and foolish and should be punished because banks were reckless?
    As for why the banks were bailed out, it's because letting them fail would have been catastrophic and far worse.
    'The billionaires should pay their taxes' is a vague and meaningless statement. The rich do pay 'their taxes'. I have little doubt that you also take advantage of legal tax avoidance measures, such as duty free, as do millions of ordinary Britons. Clamp down on tax evasion- yes. Work to close tax loopholes- yes. But lets not pretend that your statement in any way shape or form comprehends the complexity of the situation.
    Ah yes yes, it's all so darned complex.

    Except when it comes to those majority of unemployed unfortunate to be so due to luck of the draw. The days of walking into a job is over.

    Except when it comes to those working all hours on crappy low paid jobs which keep the country going. But hey we can get new workers from anywhere in the world so why bother paying a wage for a hard, often physical, job eh?

    It's all so complex when it comes to the rich. When it comes to the rest of us just flip a coin, cut the state wherever we please, and 'hope for the best'.
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Anyone else getting fed-up with lower-class families complaining their free money is being taken away?

    The harsh truth is they should never have been given this money in the first place!

    Oh you want more money? Lets just grab the money machine and print you some more.

    You want more money? Earn it like everyone else! And yes I am aware these people are working, but if you want a payrise YOU do something about it, not rely on others.
    In their defense these people should not of had to be forced into the situation in the first place. Mass uncontrolled migration by Labour and the Conservatives have driven down wages, and businesses love it but use their standing to promote staying in the EU when really they just want cheap labour instead of footing a fair bill.

    Mostly Labour but also the Tories are to blame here. The UKIP solution would have prevented the need for tax benefits altogether.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Of course they can.

    1. Already own their own home.
    2. Housing benefits and everything thrown in.
    Tbh it doesn't even matter if they do. It all goes to boosting the economy. Better that money be spent in the consumer economy than paid as rent/mortgage to be squirrelled away offshore to be malinvested or invested in competing countries. Ideally not a Japanese company like Sony but there are still several stages at which the money spent stays onshore in the UK.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Tbh it doesn't even matter if they do. It all goes to boosting the economy. Better that money be spent in the consumer economy than paid as rent/mortgage to be squirrelled away offshore to be malinvested or invested in competing countries. Ideally not a Japanese company like Sony but there are still several stages at which the money spent stays onshore in the UK.
    Thanks for changing your whole point. Those on welfare live better than those who are not.

    We need a drastic reduction in welfare/government spending.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Thanks for changing your whole point. Those on welfare live better than those who are not.

    We need a drastic reduction in welfare/government spending.
    Er, no they don't, largely because they don't earn as much money. That's the whole reason we have tax credits, to taper off as people get into work rather than it being better to claim benefits in some cases. It is in fact pandering to those who think work is the be all and end all. Work is now obsolete, as you understand yourself, because of automated productivity. The gains from productivity must be equally distributed so consumption can remain high.

    My point in that post is not to make a judgement on whether they live better or not, since you seem to be insisting that they are living it up and I know I won't change your thinking. My point is it doesn't matter either way whether they are dressed in rags eating gruel as you seem to want them to be or whether they are having a somewhat fulfilling life. In fact it's better for the economy if it's the latter.

    Emotion and Arbeit macht frei moralising trumping economic reality once again.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Er, no they don't, largely because they don't earn as much money. That's the whole reason we have tax credits, to taper off as people get into work rather than it being better to claim benefits in some cases.

    My point is not to make a judgement on that, since you seem to be insisting that they are living it up. My point is it doesn't matter either way whether they are dressed in rags eating gruel as you seem to want them to be or whether they are having a somewhat fulfilling life. In fact it's better for the economy if it's the latter.

    Emotion and Arbeit macht frei moralising trumping economic reality once again.
    1. they have more secure earnings
    2. easily plan a head
    3. can get a pay rise if they have more kids
    4. they have more spare time to shop around and make MY £ go further

    we have no choice but to cut to bring them in line with hard working private sector workers.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    1. they have more secure earnings
    2. easily plan a head
    3. can get a pay rise if they have more kids
    4. they have more spare time to shop around and make MY £ go further

    we have no choice but to cut to bring them in line with hard working private sector workers.
    Lol it's not your pound you greedy twunt because if you have a management job let's say, or worse own the business, you are reaping the gains of automated productivity which are due to them as well as you.

    Private sector workers should be raised up rather than public sector pushed down - and do you in fact have the slightest idea what you're talking about? Claimants of tax credits are private sector workers

    It's hardly secure earnings/plan ahead if you are dependent on how many hours your employer can spare from week to week. Rise in living wage will decrease hours and those presently claiming TCs will be worse off. TCs are a superior policy instrument to minimum wage for tackling poverty (and income insecurity) as they are calculated on yearly household income, not hours of work done. I can scarcely imagine you have ever lived on a low income if you think dependency on the employer/varying hours makes for income security and ability to plan ahead.

    And yeah, just "get a pay rise"...

    You're beyond clueless, though I am assuming you're just trolling really
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Lol it's not your pound you greedy twunt because if you have a management job let's say you are reaping the gains of automated productivity which are due to them as well as you.

    Private sector workers should be raised up rather than public sector pushed down - and do you in fact have the slightest idea what you're talking about? Claimants of tax credits are private sector workers.

    It's hardly secure earnings/plan ahead if you are dependent on how many hours your employer can spare from week to week. Rise in living wage will decrease hours and those presently claiming TCs will be worse off. TCs are a superior policy instrument to minimum wage for tackling poverty (and income insecurity) as they are calculated on yearly household income, not hours of work done. I can scarcely imagine you have ever lived on a low income if you think dependency on the employer/varying hours makes for income security and ability to plan ahead.

    And yeah, just "get a pay rise"...

    You're beyond clueless, though I am assuming you're just trolling really
    Nonsense. Those that work full time can get by fine with good old thrift. It's those lazy scroungers who work the bare minimum and can apply for the full tax credits and everything else which are ruining the system.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Nonsense. Those that work full time can get by fine with good old thrift. It's those lazy scroungers who work the bare minimum and can apply for the full tax credits and everything else which are ruining the system.
    Respond properly to each point please rather than with dogma
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Because they need it to survive you utter idiot.
    Oh gee, thanks for stating the obvious, never knew that!
    With the tax credit cuts you can't even behind the moralising job or no job fig leaf any more. It's solely about victimising those worse off.
    Havent a clue what you were trying to say there- but as I see it, its good to have some poverty because it constantly reminds people of the need to succeed and achieve.

    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Can't wait to hear about how if they'd got better grades at school they would all magically have got cushy middle class jobs
    Do these people have good qualifications then?

    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    I bet it makes you fele good because you feel like you're exempt. But the Tories are already coming after the middle classes - their attacks on the professions like law and medicine are this governments version of the union battles.
    Yeah because the Tories are clearly going to get re-elected in 2020 just from the aristocracy alone....

    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Tories are the party of rentiership only.
    At least they keep the economy running
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Respond properly to each point please rather than with dogma
    Hardly dogma, straight to the point. You bring up poor arguments. Regardless tories HAVE to do the necessary. Just like Corbyn who will eventually fall in line.

    UK is on the decline, we need to cut back. Pay our way in the world. Darwinism brah
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    UK desperately needs to implement food stamps.
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    (Original post by ironandbeer2)
    Free money?! It's money to work for a livable wage!
    Yes, free money. A Government subsidy is free money- you not understand that?

    (Original post by ironandbeer2)
    Not everybody is as obviously clever and lucky as the likes of you.
    I'm not lucky, its called hard work and effort.

    (Original post by ironandbeer2)
    Most jobs in this country are simply keeping the country moving,
    Don't be in the majority then!

    (Original post by ironandbeer2)
    I'm sorry you feel such people are beneath you.
    Thanks....

    (Original post by ironandbeer2)
    The attack on tax credits (without ensuring employers are making up the shortfall - it's their lack of wages which is the whole issue)
    Erm, so i'm going to start a business- oh, no I'm not, people like you want me to pay higher wages. Scrap that, I won't bother.... Or I already own a business and sack people to cover the costs of a wage increase........ smart!

    (Original post by ironandbeer2)
    is class war at its finest.
    Not giving people free money is class warfare? Whilst stealing people's money (money they own, not free money) when they die through Inheritance Tax isn't class warfare?

    (Original post by ironandbeer2)
    They will come after the middle classes in some way sooner or later
    Yeah because then they'll get re-elected....

    (Original post by ironandbeer2)
    then the pigs will squeal that their cosy office jobs are at threat.
    Wow, real chip on your shoulder, havent you? You not like successful people? Bless.....

    (Original post by ironandbeer2)
    The only people who matter to the Tories are those with tons of money, you can be British Russian or Chinese as long as you have the cash they'll sell you anything.
    The Russians and Chinese will get them re-elected? lol....
 
 
 
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