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Tax Credit Tears turns out to be Super Striver! watch

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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Actually its clear you don't know how Tax Credits for self employed people works. You have to keep a dairy of everything you do for each week and then you give this to the Job Center to look at. Chances are She works almost everyday so 6 x 8 hours = 48 hours. That is enough to receive the max amount of Tax Credits for a self employed person.

    I speak the truth because I have many friends & wider family members who are self employed and some of them will lose out from tax credits being cut.

    Either get some evidence to back up what your saying else don't say it at all.

    https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-g...-hours-of-work

    I bet it really sucks to have a Social Justice Warrior quoting you and making your prejudice look like a lame comment.
    How does that in anyway shape or form contradict anything I said?

    'However, the Institute for Fiscal Studies suggested that because Ms Dorrell does not make a profit she is unlikely to be hit by changes to the income threshold for working tax credits, which is being almost halved to £3,850 a year.'

    (From the Telegraph)

    The points of my post- she likely won't be affected, she admitted she didn't know either way before she went on QT, and that she makes no profit and her 'salary' is government benefits, are all correct.
    I never passed comment on how one actually goes about getting self-employed tax credits. So just like her, you've essentially gone on a big pointless irrelevant rant here.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    It's been worked out she's not even likely to be affected by tax credit changes since she has no income from her 'business'. She even admitted she didn't know if she'd be affected or not.
    So effectively she went on a big hysterical 'passionate' rant about something she didn't even have a clue about. If she's switching to Labour she'd fit in well there clearly.
    As for her rant- she keeps all the money she works hard for. Tax credits aren't money that she's 'earned', they're welfare from the government.
    Also, starting your own business but not making a profit so expecting the government to pay your salary in the form of benefits is hardly aspirational.
    You don't know how tax credits work then. They prop up the low paid - she will be affected.

    And yes people who are ambitious enough to start a business should be given a bit of support to help them off the ground so they can afford to live until they break even.

    But by all means continue to hammer and slate those who voted for you, that if anything will drive them towards Labour so keep going.

    Cheers.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    How does that in anyway shape or form contradict anything I said?

    'However, the Institute for Fiscal Studies suggested that because Ms Dorrell does not make a profit she is unlikely to be hit by changes to the income threshold for working tax credits, which is being almost halved to £3,850 a year.'

    (From the Telegraph)

    The points of my post- she likely won't be affected, she admitted she didn't know either way before she went on QT, and that she makes no profit and her 'salary' is government benefits, are all correct.
    I never passed comment on how one actually goes about getting self-employed tax credits. So just like her, you've essentially gone on a big pointless irrelevant rant here.
    As the economy improves for the low paid who most likely use her shop there for she will be effected in the long run.

    Fact of the matter is David Cameron lied because he knew it was all about winning the marginal seats.

    Now we have various people who are trying to make excuses for this.

    David Cameron is a lier.
    FACT!
    Tax Credit Cuts are making people worse off.
    FACT!
    There has been a 1600% increase in Food Bank use under Tory Rule.
    FACT!
    The DWP have been rigging the benefit system by preventing people from getting into a Tribunal.
    FACT!
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    Why wouldn't the middle class, who are set to benefit big time from the Tory economic plan, not patronise the lady's home nail salon with their tax savings and increased wages?

    It sounds awfully patronising to think that the lady's business, being a small one from home, is unattractive to the middle class for various unknown reasons.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    You don't know how tax credits work then. They prop up the low paid - she will be affected.

    And yes people who are ambitious enough to start a business should be given a bit of support to help them off the ground so they can afford to live until they break even.

    But by all means continue to hammer and slate those who voted for you, that if anything will drive them towards Labour so keep going.

    Cheers.
    She has no income since her salon doesn't make a profit, so no, she's not going to be affected. This is the Institute of Fiscal Studies saying it, not something I've made up myself.
    Aquiring capital to live is part of a good business plan. It's not the taxpayer's duty to foot the bill simply and solely because someone wants to pursue their dream of managing a nail salon. How long should the government help her out?
    My views on the matter are principled. I'm not going to change them simply because she voted Tory at the last election. She went on a big hysterical rant when she openly admitted to not knowing the full facts. She thinks government welfare is her earned right. I'll slate her for that regardless of who she voted for.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    As the economy improves for the low paid who most likely use her shop there for she will be effected in the long run.

    Fact of the matter is David Cameron lied because he knew it was all about winning the marginal seats.

    Now we have various people who are trying to make excuses for this.

    David Cameron is a lier.
    FACT!
    Tax Credit Cuts are making people worse off.
    FACT!
    There has been a 1600% increase in Food Bank use under Tory Rule.
    FACT!
    The DWP have been rigging the benefit system by preventing people from getting into a Tribunal.
    FACT!
    Yeah in the long run she'll have to pay her own salary from her business, not rely on taxpayer's footing the bill, God forbid.
    So no response to any points I actually made? Just stock anti-Tory hyperbole rhetoric?
    Private sector pay rose by over 4% in the last 12 months
    FACT!
    More people are in work than ever before in history
    FACT!
    Government welfare reform have net positive opinion poll ratings even amongst Labour voters
    FACT!
    There's an obesity epidemic and British people eat more calories than ever before in history
    FACT!
    Food poverty fell under the coalition government (8.1% in 2012 from 9.8% in 2007) , and food bank usage has simply increased because they're more readily available and easier to access under a politically motivated expansion campaign
    FACT!
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Have to put all the scroungers in jail then. The Tories will likely blame the most vulnerable again.
    Agreed could you post on my recession thread, interested to hear your views.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    She has no income since her salon doesn't make a profit, so no, she's not going to be affected. This is the Institute of Fiscal Studies saying it, not something I've made up myself.
    Aquiring capital to live is part of a good business plan. It's not the taxpayer's duty to foot the bill simply and solely because someone wants to pursue their dream of managing a nail salon. How long should the government help her out?
    My views on the matter are principled. I'm not going to change them simply because she voted Tory at the last election. She went on a big hysterical rant when she openly admitted to not knowing the full facts. She thinks government welfare is her earned right. I'll slate her for that regardless of who she voted for.
    The tories make a big song and dance about helping out the 'aspirational' voter. They talk about how they are they love 'aspiration'. Well starting your own business is ever aspirational yet the tories ae giving her no help whatsoever and are in fact cutting the tax credits she needs to live on.

    The funny thing is that when the tories go on about how many jobs they've created they include millions of self-employed folk like this woman. Yet they offer her no help whatsoever. The government gives big taxpayer grants to big companies, it turns a blind eye to tax avoidance, the least it can do is help small business owners afford to live.

    The tories promised not to cut tax credits before the election and are doing just that. Why shouldn't she complain about a broken promise?

    I do love now though how the tories are slating their own voters, keep going please because it will drive them away from your party. There are millions like this woman in the country who voted tory, you guys going after them with cuts is very pleasing from a labour perspective.

    As i've said, this parliament the tory cuts are going to start biting tory voters and that may well be costly.

    Good luck and good morning.
    Cheers.
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Because the closing down of the banks and the closing down of a random woman's beautician business would have similar effects
    That's the problem. Small business get market disciplined inflicted on them whilst too big to fail banks don;t have to worry about markets **** them over. One rule for them one rule for us. It's also why just letting banks do what they like is not a good idea. It doesn't really matter if someone's small business goes under, where as if something as big as those banks do it has terrible consequences for society as whole. These banks know they can not be aloud to fail so the premise of why markets are good does not apply to these institutions since they are not exposed to market discipline.

    So the idea of letting markets go unchecked with all the chaos that implies is just moronic with certain industries and sectors. But then that is exactly what we did and what we are trying to do again. No one has learned anything.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    The tories make a big song and dance about helping out the 'aspirational' voter. They talk about how they are they love 'aspiration'. Well starting your own business is ever aspirational yet the tories ae giving her no help whatsoever and are in fact cutting the tax credits she needs to live on.

    The funny thing is that when the tories go on about how many jobs they've created they include millions of self-employed folk like this woman. Yet they offer her no help whatsoever. The government gives big taxpayer grants to big companies, it turns a blind eye to tax avoidance, the least it can do is help small business owners afford to live.

    The tories promised not to cut tax credits before the election and are doing just that. Why shouldn't she complain about a broken promise?

    I do love now though how the tories are slating their own voters, keep going please because it will drive them away from your party. There are millions like this woman in the country who voted tory, you guys going after them with cuts is very pleasing from a labour perspective.

    As i've said, this parliament the tory cuts are going to start biting tory voters and that may well be costly.

    Good luck and good morning.
    Cheers.
    By all means complain about the principle of broken promises, but that's a completely different issue to her actually being affected, which was her rant.
    The shield of 'aspiration' is not a green light to write a blank cheque and throw endless waves of cash at unprofitable self-employed businesses under the banner of helping them. Loans and equity was how people used to finance starting a business, now apparently it's government welfare.
    The government has done more to combat tax avoidance than any other before it, but ultimately that is completely and utterly irrelevant. Are your principles literally waste on a small scale is fine if there's other bigger wastage going on?
    I care little for fleeting voters who switch party because they're hurt by one policy.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    I care little for fleeting voters who switch party because they're hurt by one policy.
    I'm very pleased to hear you say that. I'm glad you care little, but if all these 'fleeting voters' turn away from your party and a significant proportion choose labour then I'm not so sure you'll 'care little'.

    As I've said, the biggest threat to the Tories isn't farage, the right wing of the party or even Jeremy Corbyn. The biggest threat is your own complacency. This woman is a classic examples of a swing voter that decides elections - the fact she has switched from Tories to labour is not a good sign for you lot.

    If you keep going after your own voters with cuts, they may not reward you at the ballot box.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I'm very pleased to hear you say that. I'm glad you care little, but if all these 'fleeting voters' turn away from your party and a significant proportion choose labour then I'm not so sure you'll 'care little'.

    As I've said, the biggest threat to the Tories isn't farage, the right wing of the party or even Jeremy Corbyn. The biggest threat is your own complacency. This woman is a classic examples of a swing voter that decides elections - the fact she has switched from Tories to labour is not a good sign for you lot.

    If you keep going after your own voters with cuts, they may not reward you at the ballot box.
    Oh, fleeting voters I care about. Fleeting voters who suddenly turncoat because one policy in isolation may hurt them, I don't. In this case of this woman, said policy doesn't even affect her. People should balance everything off.
    I keep getting the feeling the Left are trying to wish this into a major issue through sheer willpower. The vast majority of measures in the last two budgets have gone down well with the electorate. If people ignore all of those but decide to focus on a few negatives, frankly there's nothing that can be done about it.
    Also, how many voters have been put off Labour by Corbyn? The man is the only opposition leader in history to start off with a net negative opinion poll rating.
    The Tories are clearly getting the painful, bad PR cuts out of the way now. That's hardly complacency, it's strategic thinking.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Oh, fleeting voters I care about. Fleeting voters who suddenly turncoat because one policy in isolation may hurt them, I don't. In this case of this woman, said policy doesn't even affect her. People should balance everything off.
    I keep getting the feeling the Left are trying to wish this into a major issue through sheer willpower. The vast majority of measures in the last two budgets have gone down well with the electorate. If people ignore all of those but decide to focus on a few negatives, frankly there's nothing that can be done about it.
    Also, how many voters have been put off Labour by Corbyn? The man is the only opposition leader in history to start off with a net negative opinion poll rating.
    The Tories are clearly getting the painful, bad PR cuts out of the way now. That's hardly complacency, it's strategic thinking.
    Fleeting voters do change over one or two issues - that's exactly what makes them fleeting voters.
    This could well be the new poll tax.
    But keep being complacent and keep not caring because that, if anything will be the Tories downfall.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Yeah in the long run she'll have to pay her own salary from her business, not rely on taxpayer's footing the bill, God forbid.
    So no response to any points I actually made? Just stock anti-Tory hyperbole rhetoric?
    Private sector pay rose by over 4% in the last 12 months
    FACT!
    More people are in work than ever before in history
    FACT!
    Government welfare reform have net positive opinion poll ratings even amongst Labour voters
    FACT!
    There's an obesity epidemic and British people eat more calories than ever before in history
    FACT!
    Food poverty fell under the coalition government (8.1% in 2012 from 9.8% in 2007) , and food bank usage has simply increased because they're more readily available and easier to access under a politically motivated expansion campaign
    FACT!
    Just because people have a job doesn't mean they are not in poverty.

    In this world people have been made slaves, they worked everyday, they had a job but they where living in poverty.

    Both of my Grand Fathers where Miners. They experienced poverty. Guess what? They had jobs.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Fleeting voters do change over one or two issues - that's exactly what makes them fleeting voters.
    This could well be the new poll tax.
    But keep being complacent and keep not caring because that, if anything will be the Tories downfall.
    Issues are decided by more than one policy.
    Again, wishful thinking on your part. You comparing one shrill hysterical woman on TV with the reaction to poll tax?
    Also last time I checked the Tories won the 1992 election with the most votes ever received by any party in history. But if that's what you want a repeat of...
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Just because people have a job doesn't mean they are not in poverty.

    In this world people have been made slaves, they worked everyday, they had a job but they where living in poverty.

    Both of my Grand Fathers where Miners. They experienced poverty. Guess what? They had jobs.
    Relative poverty. It's a measure of equality, not actual living standards.
    Poverty in your grandfather's days actually meant something. Nowadays people like Michelle Dorrell complain of poverty and hardship simply because they have no money left after paying for the mortgage, car, broadband, mobile phone and family pet. Having no money left after you spent it all is not in itself a sign of hardship.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Yeah in the long run she'll have to pay her own salary from her business, not rely on taxpayer's footing the bill, God forbid.
    So no response to any points I actually made? Just stock anti-Tory hyperbole rhetoric?
    Private sector pay rose by over 4% in the last 12 months
    FACT!
    More people are in work than ever before in history
    FACT!
    Government welfare reform have net positive opinion poll ratings even amongst Labour voters
    FACT!
    There's an obesity epidemic and British people eat more calories than ever before in history
    FACT!
    Food poverty fell under the coalition government (8.1% in 2012 from 9.8% in 2007) , and food bank usage has simply increased because they're more readily available and easier to access under a politically motivated expansion campaign
    FACT!
    Shill detected.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Issues are decided by more than one policy.
    Again, wishful thinking on your part. You comparing one shrill hysterical woman on TV with the reaction to poll tax?
    Also last time I checked the Tories won the 1992 election with the most votes ever received by any party in history. But if that's what you want a repeat of...
    Tory cuts are going to hit tory voters- that's undeniable.
    Nice spin. They also lost a fair amount of seats to put labour within touching distance for the biggest landslide ever in 1997.
    Keep slating your own floating voters though
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    (Original post by ElephantMemory)
    Shill detected.
    Care to elaborate?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Tory cuts are going to hit tory voters- that's undeniable.
    Nice spin. They also lost a fair amount of seats to put labour within touching distance for the biggest landslide ever in 1997.
    Keep slating your own floating voters though
    What's your point? My voting Conservative was never contingent on me being spared from all and every form of government policy.
    My point was that the poll tax riots weren't quite the political revolution people remember them to be. The Tory vote share dropped by all of 0.3% in 1992.
    Tax credits were widely derided earlier in the year as an unfair business subsidy. Even Labour was giving it stick. Now suddenly the Tories are cutting it, it's now a vital lifeline for the poor and the Tories are out of order? Sounds like you're giving the Tories stick because it's the Tories. This really, really, isn't the turning point you wish it was.
 
 
 
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