Turn on thread page Beta

Who hates the EU? watch

Announcements
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    The EU is a fascist dictatorship.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    EU may be a piece of **** but it's the one thing preventing UK companies heading back to Africa and re-initiating ****ty trade deals that put it in more prosperous posiitons but put africa in the ****. Wales has benefitted from the EU development fund, and workers rights have flourished, like the 28 day holiday rule, as a result if the EU. EU keep ****ty Britain in check

    I dislike the EU but i hate UK business practices more.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paul514)
    Yea no rights existed before the eu and we are in capable of writing our own


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    We can write our own but I prefer it if those rights where written by all political parties rather than just the Tories because the rights for the poor would be very little.

    It depends what kind of referendum is made. Its a yes or no for the moment.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dumachi)
    The EU is a fascist dictatorship.
    Rather similar to the British ruling class isn't it.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jeremy1988)
    True, but I'm not the only one that sees Germany in this light. I've seen them described in terms far less kind than what I'm using here by a number of people who live in Europe. I'm getting the impression that this is a pattern here, and that it's happened to countries other than Greece. The austerity measures and German loans, that is.
    Perhaps, but Greece did pull a Trojan horse on their entry into the EU. At the end of the day, if you borrow money and then can't payback, who is the villain? The debtor for borrowing more than he could pay back, or the creditor for wanting his money back?

    (Original post by jeremy1988)
    Yes, but they're leading everyone the wrong way, toward just opening the floodgates and letting everyone in.
    This is certainly one interpretation. Another is, they will come hell or high water (as we have seen). Our own dear government have missed their own targets on non EU immigration by a country mile ever since they set limits. What chances does the EU as a whole have? If people are determined to come, they will come. We can either accept it, pretend it isn't happening, or hope it is the other lots problem. At least Germany are being honest about it all. They could close their borders. It would have absolutely no impact on immigration whatsoever.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Rather similar to the British ruling class isn't it.
    Unfortunately you are right. UKIP could of made a difference but the preprogrammed masses were brainwashed into hating them via BBC.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    This is certainly one interpretation. Another is, they will come hell or high water (as we have seen). Our own dear government have missed their own targets on non EU immigration by a country mile ever since they set limits. What chances does the EU as a whole have? If people are determined to come, they will come. We can either accept it, pretend it isn't happening, or hope it is the other lots problem. At least Germany are being honest about it all. They could close their borders. It would have absolutely no impact on immigration whatsoever.
    Well, letting them come because they want to come doesn't seem like an answer. It seems like unwillingness to do something about them coming simply because they're refugees. I'm saying that in numbers that large, maybe they shouldn't be treated like refugees the way the EU wants them treated.

    Maybe they have to be treated as threats to national security, and maybe you'd have more freedom to treat them that way outside of the EU. You know what I mean?

    I mean, surely you wouldn't have had to take thousands of German army deserters running away from Germany on the basis that they claimed to be "refugees", right? How many spies and double-agents would get in that way? It's just politically incorrect to treat them like any other nation you're at war with because they're an unpopular demographic.

    Well, alternatively, I suppose there's a possibility that all of Europe would get sick of them, and you could all refuse to take anymore refugees in together. It just seems less likely because of how left-wing Europe is in general. Especially Germany.

    The problem is that once you have a critical mass of refugees and they outnumber the native population, they'll vote for polices that favour themselves, and then it's pretty much over.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jeremy1988)
    Maybe they have to be treated as threats to national security, and maybe you'd have more freedom to treat them that way outside of the EU. You know what I mean?
    Now you are getting paranoid. These people (people like you and me) are not threats to national security. They just want a better life, i.e. one with a future and hope and not with tanks and gunmen running around in the street outside. They are not animals that can be herded around. What are you suggesting? That we build a fence around Surrey and put them there?
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Now you are getting paranoid. These people (people like you and me) are not threats to national security. They just want a better life, i.e. one with a future and hope and not with tanks and gunmen running around in the street outside. They are not animals that can be herded around. What are you suggesting? That we build a fence around Surrey and put them there?
    It would be better than what you're doing now, which is just letting them have free run of the place.

    Although, I think limited migration, or some kind of law that keeps refugees from gaining citizenship or being allowed to vote. You would still have to grant it to economic migrants who can get in on work visas, of course, but that's different. They actually do benefit the UK, in a way unskilled refugees don't. The problem with the EU is that if any country in the EU is a "weak link" and grants refugees citizenship easily, then you're stuck letting them come to the UK as a result of how the EU works.



    In my opinion, they're not trustworthy and will, through the power of their vote, turn the country into a place that the rest of you won't want to live in. One that goes against traditional allies like Israel, and probably violates a lot of other human rights.

    So it's a question of violating their human rights, or letting them violate other people's human rights once they gain control. Not an easy choice, I suppose.

    I don't like the way compassion takes precedence over strategy and pragmatism, as well as the well-being of the population. But if that's what everyone values above all else... I guess that's how it will be.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    This is mainly to the people on this forum who constantly spout negativity towards anyone not originating within the borders of the UK.

    I feel Europe as a continent is much better off having the EU. It has aided some countries immensely and I don't think it is bad to play an active role in an organisation that has the aims of the betterment for all.

    I'm pretty shocked at some of the values people can have on here, not just this thread but others I see that keep cropping up. I clearly have different views on sovereignty to a lot of people commenting here. I think it is immeasurably selfish to believe that the geographical location you are born in should automatically denote a better way of life and I will always strive to achieve equality for all.

    Yes the EU is far from perfect and yes I don't believe that any country should have a more powerful hand in the EU just because of their economic strength (though I don't think this is the point most people are making about Germany - it should be - it should not be "we want more power than Germany", it should be about everyone having equal power).

    I mean if everyone (globally) would start to think a bit more compassionately and less about their own wallets, which believe me are nowhere near as full as people think compared to the few people at the top; 99.9% of people on this planet would be better off (not an exact statistic before anyone jumps on that).

    You live in a rich country and the way the world is you should feel privileged to do so. The EU is NOT ruining this country - YOU ARE!!!!!
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jeremy1988)
    It would be better than what you're doing now, which is just letting them have free run of the place.

    In my opinion, they're not trustworthy and will, through the power of their vote, turn the country into a place that the rest of you won't want to live in. One that goes against traditional allies like Israel, and probably violates a lot of other human rights.

    So it's a question of violating their human rights, or letting them violate other people's human rights once they gain control. Not an easy choice, I suppose.

    I don't like the way compassion takes precedence over strategy and pragmatism, as well as the well-being of the population. But if that's what everyone values above all else... I guess that's how it will be.
    Oh dear. I thought I was having an intelligent debate but sadly not.

    Firstly, I am not allowing them to freely run all over the place. Please don't insinuate that I might be.

    Secondly, they do not have the right to vote, so I have no idea where that one came from. If you are going to make a point. At least make a point that is factually correct.

    As for human rights - to violate their human rights is to violate our own human rights. We are all humans. If you say that a subset of people have a lower status to us in terms of human rights, you are treading a very dangerous path. The last person to hold such views in Western Europe was a little known chap called Hitler.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    I'm for the EU for the protection & rights it gives to workers, disabled people and pensioners. I am not for David Cameron bargaining away rights & protection for him to cease a new deal. The only people this will benefit are the class of capital and big corporations. He is using the EU referendum as a means to increase inequality in the UK and make the rich better off.

    I look towards UKIPPER's and Labour and say we would much better out of the EU entirely if this is the case. We cannot trust the Conservatives.
    What, that's completely the wrong attitude, with respect. I am left leaning as well, but you seem to be saying, well we can only expect right wing economic policies from our own political orthodoxy, and are own political class, so we must trade our sovereignty. That's very disheartening and defeatist. Why not try and rally the with left in this country, stick to the cause, rather than thinking giving away sovereignty is the only way to do it?
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Oh dear. I thought I was having an intelligent debate but sadly not.
    Yeah, honestly we probably think too differently on this issue. The argument from compassion thing doesn't move me, and it's clearly very important to you. I guess I should understand better because I used to think that way too. Sorry if I was rude to you.
    Firstly, I am not allowing them to freely run all over the place. Please don't insinuate that I might be.
    I was using "you" in the plural sense, not the singular sense. I'm referring to Europe and European governments.
    Secondly, they do not have the right to vote, so I have no idea where that one came from. If you are going to make a point. At least make a point that is factually correct.
    Don't you have to let EU citizens vote in your elections if they stay around long enough? All they have to do is get citizenship in one country within the EU, and then they can live and vote wherever they want. That was my understanding.

    I thought that if you left the EU, then they would have to become UK citizens to vote, whereas right now they can vote in your elections if they're a national of any EU country and gain residency status in the UK.
    As for human rights - to violate their human rights is to violate our own human rights. We are all humans. If you say that a subset of people have a lower status to us in terms of human rights, you are treading a very dangerous path. The last person to hold such views in Western Europe was a little known chap called Hitler.
    But there's no room for balance in a perspective like that. If they are as determined as you say, and they insist on coming no matter what, and you don't want to live according to their rules, what about the rights of the people whose lives they affect? What about homosexuals? What about women? What about Jewish people? Where are their rights? The people who are coming in will not respect them, and if they become a majority, there's little you can do to stop their influence from making Britain a dangerous place for all of them.

    Your compassion for them does not take into account the possibility that they, themselves, would be hypocritical enough to demand human rights for themselves, but then turn around and deny them to others once they had the power. But once they have the power, it will be too late to do anything but become refugees yourselves. Is holding onto the moral high ground really worth having to become a refugee and flee to another country in 20 years so that you can say, "At least we treated them fairly and gave them a chance, which was more than they did for us"? How much consolation will that be to future generations?

    I mean, look, I guess if things go wrong, you've always got other Commonwealth countries to go to. It just seems kind of sad to picture the British having to flee their own country and beg their former colonists for a place to stay.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paul514)
    About a third of voters


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Slightly misleading as there are undecided and nearly as meany or is it slightly more wnat out unconditionally as want in definitely
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    A Polish guy who's been here five minutes telling a British person of Indian descent, to **** off home this is white Europe. That sums up my feelings about the EU in a nutshell, I mean how dare he? And what kind of lame cowards who call themselves patriots support him? Some may take their identity from ethnicity and see us a mere patch of land to be enlightened by the oh-so superior and civilized continentals. But I thought we had more pride, I thought we were a special country with rebellion and independence in us, who defied the lowest trends of racism, authoritarianism etc from other nations -we need to regain that as we are becoming small-soulled and demoralized. I'm repeating myself here bu the idea of being in some creepy smugly white supremacist, borderless Europe, where we are regarded as the island outpost with the wrong climate and a place that opportunists exploit just is pathetic. I am sick of having smears about xenophobia and right wingness rammed down my throat about anti-Eu when all it does is interfere with Britian's independence in bucking those trends. I mean, sure you're going to get rid of racism by inviting Eastern Europeans over in droves....ROLL. EYES.

    We are a unique nation, with linkes to the globe, a commonwealth union even of currency would make far more sense. And I don't but some nonsense about how commonwealth immigrants are all bad an European ones good. BS, we have plenty to make it work our own way, being linked to the world beyond Europe, as we always were and then maintaining a reasonable, sensible pace of immigration that gives us back a sense of cohesion. That we cannot manage without is just being rammed down our throats by opportunists, people whos' careers benefit from it, and is a lie. And by the way-staying in because America applies pressure to....is pathetic. Again showing we will have lost our rebellious and independent streak and all our pride. I don't want to be a country that exists to push Europe to do what the US wants.

    This is a rallying call. The EU DOES NOT combat racism or enhance our national status, unity or identity-it will do the opposite, make us part of an indistinct, borderless World. A non-racist, harmonious successful Britain is possible if we focus on education, economic justice, a sense of cohesion, reasonable levels of immigration and we integrate people rather than make cultural solitudes. We cannot be defeatist. Sorry but I care about my country and am sick of seeing it decimated by cynicism and pandering to the lowest instincts, we have to stand against those things and fight for a different type of country.

    And don't do that thing I hate, flame me for getting worked up. Another conditioned response. I'm not going to apologise for caring about my country, which has been knocked out of people over years of the same political consensus, and the same horrible, cynical people taking this country apart as they pose as high minded. I've been demoralized myself but I'm not going to give up and let my country be given to the traitors.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)

    And don't do that thing I hate, flame me for getting worked up. Another conditioned response. I'm not going to apologise for caring about my country, which has been knocked out of people over years of the same political consensus, and the same horrible, cynical people taking this country apart as they pose as high minded. I've been demoralized myself but I'm not going to give up and let my country be given to the traitors.
    Could you tell me what you mean when you say my country. What is it about this piece of land that makes it yours? I find the idea of sovereignty fairly bizarre, this concept of borders that we decided would work "best" and therefore the rest of the world should work this way too, despite what problems it causes. I see what you mean about having a kind of national pride and support that, but the idea that different people deserve different rights because they were born on either side of an imaginary line is truly weird. You can have identity without borders look at the differences between north and south in England.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jeremy1988)
    Yeah, honestly we probably think too differently on this issue. The argument from compassion thing doesn't move me, and it's clearly very important to you.
    Fair enough. I just hope you never fall on hard times and need a bit of compassion in your life. That is my motivator. If I show compassion and care, I would hope others might do the same to me. If I only think about myself in a selfish manner, who will help me in my hour of need?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jm1984)
    Could you tell me what you mean when you say my country. What is it about this piece of land that makes it yours? I find the idea of sovereignty fairly bizarre, this concept of borders that we decided would work "best" and therefore the rest of the world should work this way too, despite what problems it causes. I see what you mean about having a kind of national pride and support that, but the idea that different people deserve different rights because they were born on either side of an imaginary line is truly weird. You can have identity without borders look at the differences between north and south in England.
    It's not more mine than a guy of Asian descent who's been here 3 generations. But it is more mine and his than a Polish guy who's been here 6 months. Why shouldn't we have more rights for say in our country? This country isn't Europe, I refuse to accept that. Just as Japan is not China, it's an island(s).
    With very different histories. If you find sovereignty bizarre maybe you should support some horrid 'utopian' new world order-esque project, where we can all be exploited and ruled by corporate power, and have no allegiance to tribe. But tribe is a fundamental part of humans, to deny it is pseudosophistication. The thing is a national tribe could be the antidote to racism, a national identity idependent of race, I think it is positively horrid that you want to live in a borderless world with no soul, no investment in the people of a country and an impersonal sense of money and corporations ruling everything.
    I think a borderless idea of the world, utopianism and the ned to make nations equal is a vile concept. Nations can't be equal and utopianism leads to horrible pain and suffering. Britain was a cherished, special place to be because it was different, and understood these notions, and made the best possible compromise of civilization it could, historically. The fact that sentiments like your are now common is no good thing, it's because it's been justified to you and others by what an inferior and more unpleasant and cynical place to be it is, directly cause by these impersonally determined policies. In my view, it's fairly obvious the two feed into each other like a cycle. A self-fulfilling prophecy too, We tell ourselves identity is meaningless, which should never put our country first or think anything of it ,analogous to a woman who tells herself she should never be respected and always be slutty, then we perpetuate our own view of ourselves by how we make things. If we create no cohesion or identity, and give up on the fact that countries should compete to be the best models of a civlization and tribe, then we get the correspondingly valueless disloyal, impersonal and cynical society we do. 'A patch of land'- good you say, I disagree.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gears265)
    Will you proudly sing the EU national anthem when it becomes our official one then?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo_-KoBiBG0

    And What a surprise, it was written by a GERMAN composer, with GERMAN lyrics.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthem_of_Europe

    People like you are a disgrace, you actually spit on the graves of the war dead who fought against Nazi Germany. They died for nothing. Germany got what they want after all because of people like you.
    You sound unbelievably ridiculous here.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dumachi)
    The EU is a fascist dictatorship.
    :rofl:
 
 
 
Poll
Do you think parents should charge rent?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups
  • create my feed
  • edit my feed

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.