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low carb diet, high fat diet? watch

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    (Original post by noey123)
    hey guys

    okay so i am starting the Atkins diet starting from tomorrow so basically 20 gram of carbs for two weeks. in this diet i get to eat chicken, cheese, nuts etc but my question is can i go to fish and chip shop and Oder a steak burger but instead of eating the bread i would eat the chicken. do these chicken have hidden carbs in them?
    my other question is what kind of exercises can i preform at home that would target body fat?
    thanks in advance
    I lost my first 30lbs on this amazing diet!
    When I went to mcdonalds with friends I'd order a hamburger and just eat the burger, not the bun if that helps. There's hidden carbs in absolutely everything, but as long as you're eating your salads and other meats then the carb count shouldn't overload with having that! At nandos or other restaurants (nandos is the easiest to stay strict!) I'd just ask for plain grilled chicken with no sauces or extra sugar and a leafy salad with the dressing on the side

    I used to youtube exercise videos to help me. Youtube zumba is the best! Also before bed try to fit in some lunges, 30sec-1min planks, 20 squats, lean against a wall face-first and raise your leg out behind you (gr8 bum yo)

    I never had nuts on my diet and I kept with the oldest diet. That book got banned (even though the only real difference was the nuts and terminology tbh) but Im sure the diet will still work with nuts!

    Good luck and enjoy! Buy loads of no-carb recipe books and try out new stuff. This will be so worth it, trust me. PM me if you ever need any more info! I'm now 40lbs down but yo-yoing by only 1-2lbs, so I think I'll go back to this or juicing diet. Not sure yet

    Also, when talking about this diet to others I tend to call it the Keto diet, not Atkins. Atkins has a bad stigma (see comments above haha) wheras Keto makes people think of fresh and healthiness. Keto is basically exactly the same but maybe more fibre in it (berries is common in this diet), but both diets have the same aim of performing ketosis in the body. Keto diet was the diet of our ancestors (lean, muscular, fat-burning bodies) as ketosis is when the body devours the fat storage for energy
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    (Original post by ImagineCats)

    This will be so worth it, trust me. PM me if you ever need any more info! I'm now 40lbs down but yo-yoing, so I think I'll go back to this or juicing diet. Not sure yet

    Omg i'm not posting in this thread anymore lol.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Omg i'm not posting in this thread anymore lol.
    Ah what did I do wrong?

    I'm yo-yoing bc I'm eating badly as quite a lot is going on in life rn. I've kept the 30lbs off and burnt the extra 10lbs from insanity but then my relative died so things went cray cray from there
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Unfortunately it's not traditional. This technique is 100% success guaranteed and magazines just won't sell if they hammer home this method.

    Please do show me this reason. A lot of studies on insulin (for example glycemic index/loading studies) are conducted on either elite athletes, or morbidly obese participants on an empty stomach. Insulin response varies depending on so many factors.

    If you want to avoid cravings, eat lots of fiber.

    People, you all have to understand, the only way a diet works is because calories in < calories out.

    There is no other reasoning for a diet to work. Whether you stick to it is a different matter, but I'm talking from a biological standpoint. This is the fundamental rule to weightloss. If this law is not obeyed, you will never, ever lose weight naturally.
    I don't have a lot of time to go into too much detail but I'll highlight the main points here.

    The job of insulin is to store excess carbohydrate as fat and allow glucose to be utilised by the cells in the body. When you ingest a high amount of carbohydrate, most people don't even use it all. Eating low carb therefore causes less fat to be stored in the body. Another benefit of low carb diets is that the body uses up carbohydrates under 100grams pretty quickly and at that point, the glycogen stores in the liver start to be broken down as glucose to supply the cells. This occurs in the first few days and is why people lose a lot of water weight quickly.

    After the glycogen stores are depleted, the body turns on its own fat and this is where fat loss comes from. Called dietary ketosis, it's where ketone bodies are released to supply the body and brain with the energy it needs. At this point, most people don't feel hungry anymore, report having even more energy than when they started and lose their former cravings. This is a major reason why it's one of the easier diets to stick to.

    Your point about fibre reducing cravings is utter bs, sugar is metabolised the same way alcohol is in the body and is very much an addiction to many people. The most effective way to reduce it is by reducing the amount of insulin circulating in the body as insulin is a driving factor in why people develop a tolerance to sugar and need more and more each time to get the same effect.

    Overall most people on a low carb diet report not feeling hungry most of the time and what happens when people don't feel hungry? Yes, you're right they start eating less anyway therefore most people on this diet actually find that they eat less calories without even thinking about it just from eating less carbs and more fat alone. Win win.
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    (Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
    I don't have a lot of time to go into too much detail but I'll highlight the main points here.

    The job of insulin is to store excess carbohydrate as fat and allow glucose to be utilised by the cells in the body. When you ingest a high amount of carbohydrate, most people don't even use it all. Eating low carb therefore causes less fat to be stored in the body. Another benefit of low carb diets is that the body uses up carbohydrates under 100grams pretty quickly and at that point, the glycogen stores in the liver start to be broken down as glucose to supply the cells. This occurs in the first few days and is why people lose a lot of water weight quickly.

    After the glycogen stores are depleted, the body turns on its own fat and this is where fat loss comes from. Called dietary ketosis, it's where ketone bodies are released to supply the body and brain with the energy it needs. At this point, most people don't feel hungry anymore, report having even more energy than when they started and lose their former cravings. This is a major reason why it's one of the easier diets to stick to.

    Your point about fibre reducing cravings is utter bs, sugar is metabolised the same way alcohol is in the body and is very much an addiction to many people. The most effective way to reduce it is by reducing the amount of insulin circulating in the body as insulin is a driving factor in why people develop a tolerance to sugar and need more and more each time to get the same effect.

    Overall most people on a low carb diet report not feeling hungry most of the time and what happens when people don't feel hungry? Yes, you're right they start eating less anyway therefore most people on this diet actually find that they eat less calories without even thinking about it just from eating less carbs and more fat alone. Win win.
    Firstly, eating foods with a lot of fiber in them; what does that have to do with sugar lol? It's because those foods are usually nutritionally dense, and are very filling. They fill you up. Reducing cravings.

    I've never advocated a high carbohydrate diet.

    Fat loss comes from eating less calories than you burn. Honestly how many times do I have to say this. I will say it just one more time.

    Fat loss....comes from....eating less calories...than you burn. It does not matter the ratio of carbs/fat/protein.


    Just to clarify: Low carb diets certainly have their place, if you know what you are doing.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Firstly, eating foods with a lot of fiber in them; what does that have to do with sugar lol? It's because those foods are usually nutritionally dense, and are very filling. They fill you up. Reducing cravings.

    I've never advocated a high carbohydrate diet.

    Fat loss comes from eating less calories than you burn. Honestly how many times do I have to say this. I will say it just one more time.

    Fat loss....comes from....eating less calories...than you burn. It does not matter the ratio of carbs/fat/protein.


    Just to clarify: Low carb diets certainly have their place, if you know what you are doing.
    I'm afraid you're still saying the same things, with no scientific backing or explanation of it. Fat loss doesn't just occur from eating less than you burn, fat loss occurs when there is a carbohydrate and glycogen store deficit and that's when the fat burning is actually at it's most steady.

    My point about mentioning sugar when talking about cravings is that simply feeling full isn't going to deter someone from going out to buy a cake if they're craving cake. Eating fibre isn't going to stop a binge eater from finishing that tub of ice cream if that's what they're craving at that particular moment. We're not talking about eating when hungry, we're talking about filling up a deep craving that only insulin depletion is going to solve. If you want to know how less insulin reduces cravings, then google is your friend I cba to explain it all here as it is quite detailed.
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    (Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
    I'm afraid you're still saying the same things, with no scientific backing or explanation of it. Fat loss doesn't just occur from eating less than you burn, fat loss occurs when there is a carbohydrate and glycogen store deficit and that's when the fat burning is actually at it's most steady.

    My point about mentioning sugar when talking about cravings is that simply feeling full isn't going to deter someone from going out to buy a cake if they're craving cake. Eating fibre isn't going to stop a binge eater from finishing that tub of ice cream if that's what they're craving at that particular moment. We're not talking about eating when hungry, we're talking about filling up a deep craving that only insulin depletion is going to solve. If you want to know how less insulin reduces cravings, then google is your friend I cba to explain it all here as it is quite detailed.
    Ah, right, that's a different matter. You know what deters somebody from going out to buy a cake? Willpower. Or we can use your excuse of 'a deep craving only insulin depletion is going to solve' lol I've never heard that before. Apologies for not having the relationship with desert that you or other people have. I cook good food. It satifies my sweet, savoury and fills me up. If I have a craving, I deal with it like an adult with serious fitness goals should.

    Willpower and dieting is a psychological issue that I don't particularly discuss as it varies for each individual. Cake is not crystal meth.

    How do we induce empty glycogen stores? So you're telling me, I can lose weight, in a calorie surplus?
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Ah, right, that's a different matter. You know what deters somebody from going out to buy a cake? Willpower. Or we can use your excuse of 'a deep craving only insulin depletion is going to solve' lol I've never heard that before. Apologies for not having the relationship with desert that you or other people have. I cook good food. It satifies my sweet, savoury and fills me up. If I have a craving, I deal with it like an adult with serious fitness goals should.

    Willpower and dieting is a psychological issue that I don't particularly discuss as it varies for each individual. Cake is not crystal meth.

    How do we induce empty glycogen stores? So you're telling me, I can lose weight, in a calorie surplus?
    Well good for you, you don't suffer from an eating disorder. I'm sure you'd say the same thing to someone with anorexia by telling them they have no willpower to stop and they should 'deal with it like an adult with serious fitness goals should.' All eating disorders are the same and binge eaters suffer the same mental problems that anorexics or bulimics suffer from. Cake is essentially sugar and it can be like crystal meth to some people. Again you're speaking as someone who hasn't suffered an addiction so it's very easy for you to dismiss.

    No I'm not saying that, I'm saying in a low carb diet calories are pretty much ignored and carbohydrates are the main focus. When you eat low carbohydrates with high fat and protein, you tend to average less calories anyway and you get the added fat burning activity that results from a glucose deficit.
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    (Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
    Well good for you, you don't suffer from an eating disorder. I'm sure you'd say the same thing to someone with anorexia by telling them they have no willpower to stop and they should 'deal with it like an adult with serious fitness goals should.' All eating disorders are the same and binge eaters suffer the same mental problems that anorexics or bulimics suffer from. Cake is essentially sugar and it can be like crystal meth to some people. Again you're speaking as someone who hasn't suffered an addiction so it's very easy for you to dismiss.

    No I'm not saying that, I'm saying in a low carb diet calories are pretty much ignored and carbohydrates are the main focus. When you eat low carbohydrates with high fat and protein, you tend to average less calories anyway and you get the added fat burning activity that results from a glucose deficit.
    How the hell do you know what I've suffered?

    Eating disorders has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, why bring that up? How can all eating disorders be the same? that's so grossly offensive to suggest that everybody with different eating disorders suffer the same mental problems. That's so not true at all.

    There are people who suffer from eating disorders because of immense stress, nothing to do with people who suffer the same disorders because of body image.

    Okay, so let's say we ignore calories.

    I eat 50 eggs a day, 40 avacados, about 500g worth of pistachio nuts, 5 steaks with a nice healthy dose of side salad.

    Minimal carbs. But we're ignoring calories here cos apparently that's not the be all and end all.

    Am I going to lose weight?

    I'll answer this for you, NO I will not. Because calories are the single most important factor when it comes to weight loss.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    How the hell do you know what I've suffered?

    Eating disorders has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, why bring that up? How can all eating disorders be the same? that's so grossly offensive to suggest that everybody with different eating disorders suffer the same mental problems. That's so not true at all.

    There are people who suffer from eating disorders because of immense stress, nothing to do with people who suffer the same disorders because of body image.

    Okay, so let's say we ignore calories.

    I eat 50 eggs a day, 40 avacados, about 500g worth of pistachio nuts, 5 steaks with a nice healthy dose of side salad.

    Minimal carbs. But we're ignoring calories here cos apparently that's not the be all and end all.

    Am I going to lose weight?

    I'll answer this for you, NO I will not. Because calories are the single most important factor when it comes to weight loss.
    Ok going to ignore that irrelevant outburst at the beginning of your post as it adds nothing to the discussion. You were the one trying to say that eating fibre is enough to curb cravings. When I tried to explain that it isn't, you decided it was appropriate to assume that they have no willpower and have no serious fitness goals. Therefore they're just plain lazy with no desire to increase their fitness right?

    To answer your last question, by the 10th egg you wouldn't even be able to eat anymore not to talk of 40 avocados or even 5 steaks so nice try but it's pretty much impossible for the average person to eat that much protein without throwing up and feeling sick. I can't help but feel like you are deliberately missing the point of my posts, did you completely ignore where I said that people on this diet get fuller easily?
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    (Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
    Ok going to ignore that irrelevant outburst at the beginning of your post as it adds nothing to the discussion. You were the one trying to say that eating fibre is enough to curb cravings. When I tried to explain that it isn't, you decided it was appropriate to assume that they have no willpower and have no serious fitness goals. Therefore they're just plain lazy with no desire to increase their fitness right?

    To answer your last question, by the 10th egg you wouldn't even be able to eat anymore not to talk of 40 avocados or even 5 steaks so nice try but it's pretty much impossible for the average person to eat that much protein without throwing up and feeling sick. I can't help but feel like you are deliberately missing the point of my posts, did you completely ignore where I said that people on this diet get fuller easily?
    Sigh, no, I think you are missing the essential point of what I am trying to say. I'm going to ignore the BS about cravings and willpower, I don't care about any of that tbh, sorry. If you can't say no to a piece of cake and want to blame it on insulin or whatever, that's your problem, it's not me who has trouble losing weight.

    My main point, I'll type it in bold so it resonates with you, is that:

    To lose weight healthily and naturally, YOU MUST BE IN A CALORIC DEFICIT.

    No matter what you eat, if you are not in a caloric deficit, you will never lose weight (healthily).

    ^

    If you agree with me on that statement, we can end this stupid discussion.

    Liquid eggs, wild avacados (absolutely tiny, google them, they're cute) and frying steaks (ultra thin).
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Sigh, no, I think you are missing the essential point of what I am trying to say. I'm going to ignore the BS about cravings and willpower, I don't care about any of that tbh, sorry. If you can't say no to a piece of cake and want to blame it on insulin or whatever, that's your problem, it's not me who has trouble losing weight.

    My main point, I'll type it in bold so it resonates with you, is that:

    To lose weight healthily and naturally, YOU MUST BE IN A CALORIC DEFICIT.

    No matter what you eat, if you are not in a caloric deficit, you will never lose weight (healthily).

    ^

    If you agree with me on that statement, we can end this stupid discussion.

    Liquid eggs, wild avacados (absolutely tiny, google them, they're cute) and frying steaks (ultra thin).
    Well this is essentially the problem, a lack of empathy with people who struggle with overeating. The average person on a low carb diet may not have an eating disorder but this is a very good diet for those who do, whether or not you believe it is your problem. I don't think there's a point in continuing this discussion any longer, I have provided you with scientific backing for why low carb diets work and why a simple calorie deficit isn't the only method of losing weight. All you've done in every single post is repeat LESS CALORIES THAN YOU BURN over and over without managing to dispute what I've said and it's getting pretty repetitive now.

    50 liquid eggs is still 50 eggs, it's the same amount of protein and will still fill you up the same way, so will frying steaks. Wild avocados weren't specified in your original post, I think it's safe to say the average avocado isn't wild and so for sake of this discussion we were referring to normal sized ones which are also very filling.
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    (Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
    Well this is essentially the problem, a lack of empathy with people who struggle with overeating. The average person on a low carb diet may not have an eating disorder but this is a very good diet for those who do, whether or not you believe it is your problem. I don't think there's a point in continuing this discussion any longer, I have provided you with scientific backing for why low carb diets work and why a simple calorie deficit isn't the only method of losing weight. All you've done in every single post is repeat LESS CALORIES THAN YOU BURN over and over without managing to dispute what I've said and it's getting pretty repetitive now.

    50 liquid eggs is still 50 eggs, it's the same amount of protein and will still fill you up the same way, so will frying steaks. Wild avocados weren't specified in your original post, I think it's safe to say the average avocado isn't wild and so for sake of this discussion we were referring to normal sized ones which are also very filling.
    My interests are exercise, fat loss (different to weight loss) and muscle building. That's about it.

    I'm not interested in people who want a quick fix, or to come up with reasons/excuses. There are people with eating disorders who get healthy again. I wonder how....

    I'm not a doctor. I'm not a nutritionist. I don't know anybody personally with eating disorders. Who am I supposed to be empathetic towards?

    I'm not going to hook you up with the science. You won't read it.

    I'm going to ask you a very simple question. I want you to give an equally simple answer. Ideally a yes or no.

    Is it possible to lose weight in a calorie surplus?
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    LETS GET READY TO RUMBLLLLLEEEEE

    (Original post by noey123)
    hey guys

    okay so i am starting the Atkins diet starting from tomorrow so basically 20 gram of carbs for two weeks. in this diet i get to eat chicken, cheese, nuts etc but my question is can i go to fish and chip shop and Oder a steak burger but instead of eating the bread i would eat the chicken. do these chicken have hidden carbs in them?
    my other question is what kind of exercises can i preform at home that would target body fat?
    thanks in advance
    Keto diets work, however atkins sucks, it relies on you being nutritionally deficient in just about every micronutrient and fibre etc. It's not great for your health

    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Every body initially loses water weight they start to diet.

    There is no such thing as 'the fastest way'. There are things that work, and some things work better than others.

    The only thing that works successfully AND IN THE LONG TERM is a healthy calorie deficit. I don't care what your macronutrient profile is. Plenty of people successfully lose weight with liquid diets. Or eating grapefruit diets, or all sorts of BS. Plenty of people lose weight by drinking 'boo tea'. Take up smoking and you'll probably lose weight. Anecdotal statements like that mean nothing to me.

    I'm not going to come on here and give advice on the 'quickest' or 'easiest' way to do something.

    I am in absolutely no position to recommend a ketogenic diet. They were used for children with epilepsy. It is a very drastic change in lifestyle/eating habits that should not be taken lightly, imo.

    When it comes to weight loss, it's pretty much BURN MORE CALORIES THAN YOU TAKE IN. Do it through exercise if you can't help yourself to that slice of cake. What annoys me is when people take drastic measures to lose a large amount of weight, and to me, ketogenic is drastic, unless you really know what you are doing.


    EDIT: oh, and your statement about the 'Best exercise to target body fat is high intensity interval training' is wrong/misinformed. Please have a look at SophieSmall's post. She hits the nail on the head.
    Yah. It doesn't work in most epileptics either

    (Original post by infairverona)
    Ok - but again - this whole post is just YOU wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it either. But some people do, and people have excellent results doing keto. There is nothing wrong with keto compared to the other things you mentioned:
    Keto is an elimination diet. Most people suck at elimination diets. Remove things in their entirety and people will eventually break and cheat, binge and ultimately fail.

    Keto works but most people can't do them. Also lethargy, fatigue and headaches are common side effects

    Plenty of people successfully lose weight with liquid diets - not sustainable in the long term. People do and have done keto for years at a time. Some people just eat less carbs anyway to stay slim.
    Or eating grapefruit diets, or all sorts of BS - obviously not a good idea to only eat one food, no variety = not enough nutrients, no protein here, etc. Keto encourages you to eat a lot of leafy greens, protein, good fats, etc.
    Plenty of people lose weight by drinking 'boo tea' - not even remotely comparable. Boo Tea only works because it's a herbal laxative.
    Keto doesn't require that you **** your guts out for 2 weeks to lose weight.
    Take up smoking and you'll probably lose weight - again, obviously harmful in ways that keto is not.
    Strong comparisons are strong. Smoking makes you lose weight by being an appetite suppressant btw

    I probably don't even need to point this out but OP didn't ask that you recommend keto or that you advise other ways to lose weight. Two questions were asked, neither of which you answered. You think keto is drastic - why?
    Elimination diet

    Why is it drastic to focus solely on eating whole foods - lean meat, vegetables? I'm currently quitting sugar which people consider extreme - no it isn't.
    Eating less cake is different from keto

    It's cutting out manmade crap that your body finds addictive and doesn't need. Compared to people who eat big plates of pasta, cake, chocolate etc keto is far healthier.
    Comparing pasta to cake. Strong.

    You are still getting carbs because fruit and veg contain carbs, what you're not eating is crappy pasta and bread.
    On a true keto you're not meant to eat stuff like bananas.

    If it's done well, there's nothing wrong with it. If people can do it and it works for them who are you to tell them otherwise really? Maybe it will work really well for OP.
    Atkins isn't doing it well though.

    Nice ad hom to finish. Really strengthens your argument

    (Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
    I know it's very cool to hate on any diet that's not the traditional 'eat less than you burn' diet but there is a good scientific reason why a low carb diet works and it is something to do with how insulin affects your body and cravings. It does work, and although it isn't sustainable in the long term for most people (although some have been known to continue it indefinitely), it does bring about weight loss.

    To OP: 20 grams is way too low and at that stage you won't even be able to get in any fruit or decent veg in your diet which isn't good. I'd say don't exceed 2 weeks and there is a chance of putting weight back on. A safe starting carb level would be 60-80 grams, that way you can carry on for a few months (or longer if you wish) and you still get the benefit of weight loss.
    You do know protein increases insulin secretion yeah? Protein powder for instance raises your insulin markedly.
    Just because it works doesn't make it sustainable

    (Original post by ImagineCats)
    I lost my first 30lbs on this amazing diet!
    When I went to mcdonalds with friends I'd order a hamburger and just eat the burger, not the bun if that helps. There's hidden carbs in absolutely everything, but as long as you're eating your salads and other meats then the carb count shouldn't overload with having that! At nandos or other restaurants (nandos is the easiest to stay strict!) I'd just ask for plain grilled chicken with no sauces or extra sugar and a leafy salad with the dressing on the side

    I used to youtube exercise videos to help me. Youtube zumba is the best! Also before bed try to fit in some lunges, 30sec-1min planks, 20 squats, lean against a wall face-first and raise your leg out behind you (gr8 bum yo)

    I never had nuts on my diet and I kept with the oldest diet. That book got banned (even though the only real difference was the nuts and terminology tbh) but Im sure the diet will still work with nuts!

    Good luck and enjoy! Buy loads of no-carb recipe books and try out new stuff. This will be so worth it, trust me. PM me if you ever need any more info! I'm now 40lbs down but yo-yoing by only 1-2lbs, so I think I'll go back to this or juicing diet. Not sure yet
    Juice diets are the ultimate fad diet, far more extreme than keto and infinitely worse for you. You'll yo yo on it. Massively

    Also, when talking about this diet to others I tend to call it the Keto diet, not Atkins. Atkins has a bad stigma (see comments above haha) wheras Keto makes people think of fresh and healthiness. Keto is basically exactly the same but maybe more fibre in it (berries is common in this diet), but both diets have the same aim of performing ketosis in the body. Keto diet was the diet of our ancestors (lean, muscular, fat-burning bodies) as ketosis is when the body devours the fat storage for energy
    No. No it wasn't.

    (Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
    I don't have a lot of time to go into too much detail but I'll highlight the main points here.

    The job of insulin is to store excess carbohydrate as fat and allow glucose to be utilised by the cells in the body.
    This happens at an extremely low level. Insulin causes glycogenolysis and blunt gluconeogenesis and lipolysis. It will causes lipogenesis from excess fat intake, true. But that's not insulins fault, it's you eating too many calories.

    When you ingest a high amount of carbohydrate, most people don't even use it all.
    Don't use insulin? Fat and protein is insulinogenic. Strong science is strong.

    Eating low carb therefore causes less fat to be stored in the body. Another benefit of low carb diets is that the body uses up carbohydrates under 100grams pretty quickly and at that point, the glycogen stores in the liver start to be broken down as glucose to supply the cells. This occurs in the first few days and is why people lose a lot of water weight quickly.
    Glycogen is depleted in a strict keto diet and hence water weight is lost quickly. However it doesn't actually achieve anything does it?

    After the glycogen stores are depleted, the body turns on its own fat and this is where fat loss comes from.
    Depends entirely on how many calories people have eaten. If in a surplus, no weight loss will occur

    Called dietary ketosis, it's where ketone bodies are released to supply the body and brain with the energy it needs. At this point, most people don't feel hungry anymore, report having even more energy than when they started and lose their former cravings. This is a major reason why it's one of the easier diets to stick to.
    Nausea, head aches, lethargy, actual vomiting etc are all side effects of being in true ketosis. Most people don't achieve it off a ketogenic diet. Long term ketosis doesn't make you feel great.

    Sure things like IF push you towards it, but actually being in ketosis is a rubbish feeling

    Your point about fibre reducing cravings is utter bs, sugar is metabolised the same way alcohol is in the body and is very much an addiction to many people.
    Fibre isn't sugar. Fibre is either soluble and insoluble and makes up fibrous parts of fruit and veg. It decreases appetite and has been shown to reduce blood cholesterol too

    The most effective way to reduce it is by reducing the amount of insulin circulating in the body as insulin is a driving factor in why people develop a tolerance to sugar and need more and more each time to get the same effect.
    Insulin is not the devil. Without it you die.

    Overall most people on a low carb diet report not feeling hungry most of the time and what happens when people don't feel hungry? Yes, you're right they start eating less anyway therefore most people on this diet actually find that they eat less calories without even thinking about it just from eating less carbs and more fat alone. Win win.
    Yeah keto works but most people can't stick to them. Doing extreme keto diets are also silly. Why be naseous to lose weight?

    (Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
    Ok going to ignore that irrelevant outburst at the beginning of your post as it adds nothing to the discussion. You were the one trying to say that eating fibre is enough to curb cravings. When I tried to explain that it isn't, you decided it was appropriate to assume that they have no willpower and have no serious fitness goals. Therefore they're just plain lazy with no desire to increase their fitness right?

    To answer your last question, by the 10th egg you wouldn't even be able to eat anymore not to talk of 40 avocados or even 5 steaks so nice try but it's pretty much impossible for the average person to eat that much protein without throwing up and feeling sick. I can't help but feel like you are deliberately missing the point of my posts, did you completely ignore where I said that people on this diet get fuller easily?
    Hi I'm Angry cucumber and I've eaten a dozen eggs in a sitting, with 6 pieces of toast for breakfast, more than once. People's ability to eat varies wildly.

    Whilst keto can suppress appetite and fill you up, slash the amount of food a person can eat and people cheat. That is why eating a balanced diet in a dietary deficit of calories is more important for your average person. I'm not suggesting people just eat cake, however eating a bit of pasta isn't going to cause 4 stone of weight gain cause insulin.

    Balanced diet - lean protein, veggies and a bit of pasta/ rice. Want to filled up more - eat whole grain carb sources
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    (Original post by Angry cucumber)
    LETS GET READY TO RUMBLLLLLEEEEE

    Finally, about time some actual science was injected into this horrible discussion.

    PREACH
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    (Original post by Angry cucumber)
    LETS GET READY TO RUMBLLLLLEEEEE



    Keto diets work, however atkins sucks, it relies on you being nutritionally deficient in just about every micronutrient and fibre etc. It's not great for your health



    Yah. It doesn't work in most epileptics either



    Keto is an elimination diet. Most people suck at elimination diets. Remove things in their entirety and people will eventually break and cheat, binge and ultimately fail.

    Keto works but most people can't do them. Also lethargy, fatigue and headaches are common side effects



    Strong comparisons are strong. Smoking makes you lose weight by being an appetite suppressant btw



    Elimination diet



    Eating less cake is different from keto


    Comparing pasta to cake. Strong.



    On a true keto you're not meant to eat stuff like bananas.



    Atkins isn't doing it well though.

    Nice ad hom to finish. Really strengthens your argument



    You do know protein increases insulin secretion yeah? Protein powder for instance raises your insulin markedly.
    Just because it works doesn't make it sustainable



    Juice diets are the ultimate fad diet, far more extreme than keto and infinitely worse for you. You'll yo yo on it. Massively



    No. No it wasn't.



    This happens at an extremely low level. Insulin causes glycogenolysis and blunt gluconeogenesis and lipolysis. It will causes lipogenesis from excess fat intake, true. But that's not insulins fault, it's you eating too many calories.



    Don't use insulin? Fat and protein is insulinogenic. Strong science is strong.



    Glycogen is depleted in a strict keto diet and hence water weight is lost quickly. However it doesn't actually achieve anything does it?



    Depends entirely on how many calories people have eaten. If in a surplus, no weight loss will occur



    Nausea, head aches, lethargy, actual vomiting etc are all side effects of being in true ketosis. Most people don't achieve it off a ketogenic diet. Long term ketosis doesn't make you feel great.

    Sure things like IF push you towards it, but actually being in ketosis is a rubbish feeling



    Fibre isn't sugar. Fibre is either soluble and insoluble and makes up fibrous parts of fruit and veg. It decreases appetite and has been shown to reduce blood cholesterol too



    Insulin is not the devil. Without it you die.



    Yeah keto works but most people can't stick to them. Doing extreme keto diets are also silly. Why be naseous to lose weight?



    Hi I'm Angry cucumber and I've eaten a dozen eggs in a sitting, with 6 pieces of toast for breakfast, more than once. People's ability to eat varies wildly.

    Whilst keto can suppress appetite and fill you up, slash the amount of food a person can eat and people cheat. That is why eating a balanced diet in a dietary deficit of calories is more important for your average person. I'm not suggesting people just eat cake, however eating a bit of pasta isn't going to cause 4 stone of weight gain cause insulin.

    Balanced diet - lean protein, veggies and a bit of pasta/ rice. Want to filled up more - eat whole grain carb sources
    Thank you for existing.
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    (Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
    .
    please take your broscience out of this section smh
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    Tl dr for that poster with nothing better to do, but whether or not any of actually believe it, it works. A few people have commented on this thread who've done it and kept it off, I've done it and kept it off and many others have done it and kept the weight off. As a medical student, I've done my own research and analysed a few papers on the role of insulin in the body and its fair to say it would be a little bit more thorough than the average article on bodybuildingforums.

    Putting your fingers in your ears screaming 'LA, LA, LA, CANT HEAR YOU' is not going to make it work any less.
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    (Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
    Tl dr for that poster with nothing better to do, but whether or not any of actually believe it, it works. A few people have commented on this thread who've done it and kept it off, I've done it and kept it off and many others have done it and kept the weight off. As a medical student, I've done my own research and analysed a few papers on the role of insulin in the body and its fair to say it would be a little bit more thorough than the average article on bodybuildingforums.

    Putting your fingers in your ears screaming 'LA, LA, LA, CANT HEAR YOU' is not going to make it work any less.
    But that's exactly what you've just done? You are refusing to read a well informed post addressing the majority of your insulin-worship bs.

    I'd love to see/hear your analysis. Lucky most of us here that have the slightest clue do not get our knowledge from bodybuilding forums, or even rely solely on PubMed.
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    PS Reviewer
    (Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
    Tl dr for that poster with nothing better to do, but whether or not any of actually believe it, it works. A few people have commented on this thread who've done it and kept it off, I've done it and kept it off and many others have done it and kept the weight off. As a medical student, I've done my own research and analysed a few papers on the role of insulin in the body and its fair to say it would be a little bit more thorough than the average article on bodybuildingforums.

    Putting your fingers in your ears screaming 'LA, LA, LA, CANT HEAR YOU' is not going to make it work any less.
    1) I have an equal if not superior degree classification to you - calling me out because your a med student makes you look silly
    2) Your lack of insulin knowledge is lacking in A level foundations
    3) how about call my points out and discuss like an adult rather than be petulant. Your ad hom is disappointing for someone in the medical profession.

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