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Stalinest Seumas Milne to be Corbyn's communication and strategy chief watch

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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Do you wish we had our own Putin ruling us?

    Fascist has always been bandied around incorrectly from the moment fascism was a thing. Although I suspect what I think is fascism and what you think is fascism is probably different.
    It would be better than Cameron and the EU. We aren't ready for that kind of government though.

    I think we would agree on quite a lot. I see fascism as a very age specific ideology. It arose out of certain historical conditions.
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    How any Labour supporter can defend this is sickening, he even makes Corbyn look sane. Seumas has defeneded the 7/7 terrorist attacks, defended the beheading of Lee Rigby, said he despaired over the fall of the Berlin wall & even praised muslims murdering British soldiers. With any luck Labour will never get power again

    http://order-order.com/2015/10/20/co...s-comms-chief/
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    Calling Putin a "fascist". How low can political discourse actually sink?
    Technically I did not call Putin a fascist. I said he supports Putin and he also supports fascists. But yea I think Putin will go down in history as a fascist. The evidence for this grows increasingly over time.
    If you compare life under Mousillini and how life is under russia - crack down on homosexuals and no chance for opposition parties.
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    (Original post by skeptical_john)
    Technically I did not call Putin a fascist. I said he supports Putin and he also supports fascists. But yea I think Putin will go down in history as a fascist. The evidence for this grows increasingly over time.
    If you compare life under Mousillini and how life is under russia - crack down on homosexuals and no chance for opposition parties.
    If that qualifies a government as fascist then 95%+ of governments in history are fascist.
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    Calling Putin a "fascist". How low can political discourse actually sink?
    Putin runs a "state capitalist" economy, promotes nationalism and militarism, and tries to ensure everyone lives traditional lifestyles based on the nuclear family.

    By all of these measures he is a fascist. It's not good to baulk at the word, call a spade a spade, fascism doesn't have to be bad, I myself would like to see us take on some of the economic aspects of it, although not the social.
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    Calling Putin a "fascist". How low can political discourse actually sink?
    Godwin's Law... when Hitler is mentioned the game stops
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    If that qualifies a government as fascist then 95%+ of governments in history are fascist.
    not at all, i just cant be arsed to write 500 words on it. I accept it's difficult to tell during the time just as it was with Hitler/Mussolini
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    The worst thing is Labour totally had the tories on the backfoot for the first time in ages over the tax credits and they announce this TONIGHT of all nights!

    I say it again. Corbyn wants to be kicked out. There is no other logic for doing this.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    Godwin's Law... when Hitler is mentioned the game stops
    Even if we are talking about and comparing Stalin to Hitler? XD
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    Conflating monarchy and dictatorship - sign of an uneducated mind. Modern liberal democracies are significantly more dictatorial and totalitarian than traditional monarchies.
    Yeah, try again. You seem not to understand the long words you're using.
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    Why are Tories aloud to get away with cosying up with actual communist regimes?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Yeah, try again. You seem not to understand the long words you're using.
    No I do. Its you that has the simplistic and false understanding of politics that you got from your lefty school teachers. Traditional monarchs generally leave people alone while so called democracies take half your income, indoctrinate your children and imprison you for hate (often factual) speech.
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    No I do. Its you that has the simplistic and false understanding of politics that you got from your lefty school teachers. Traditional monarchs generally leave people alone while so called democracies take half your income, indoctrinate your children and imprison you for hate (often factual) speech.
    Aside from anything else (for the record, this is bad history in the extreme), none of this pertains to relative dictatorial nature.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Aside from anything else (for the record, this is bad history in the extreme), none of this pertains to relative dictatorial nature.
    It's not bad history. I fail to see how that is anything but an accurate depiction of history. Mandatory state education, extremely high taxes and the various forms of social engineering that have been tried, all started with the commencing of the democratic age and the death of the traditional monarchies.

    How does to not pertain to totalitarianism? All totalitarian governments have had quite large states and have instituted or preserved mandatory, state education of children. The reasons why are obvious.

    You aren't actually making any arguments here. You are just proclaiming that the whig (or marxist) theory of history is correct without justifying.
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    It is good to see the left wingers finally admitting Corbyn is a marxist
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Putin runs a "state capitalist" economy
    Define what you mean by "state capitalism"? I would see state capitalism as something more comparable to China where there is significant capital and infrastructure investment by the state. Russia has a nationalised energy sector but I don't see the two as directly similar.

    Fascism didn't advocate state capitalism. It advocated corporatism which was influenced by Catholic economic theories that argued for a guild system.

    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    , promotes nationalism and militarism
    You are correct on nationalism but I don't see the militarism in Putinist ideology.

    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    and tries to ensure everyone lives traditional lifestyles based on the nuclear family.
    That's just plain old social conservatism. It's not really a sufficient condition to be fascist.
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    No I do. Its you that has the simplistic and false understanding of politics that you got from your lefty school teachers. Traditional monarchs generally leave people alone while so called democracies take half your income, indoctrinate your children and imprison you for hate (often factual) speech.
    As opposed to serfdom, involuntary military servitude, indoctrination through the Church, censorship of the wirtten word, suppression of free thought. being imprisoned for treason/heresy/unorthodoxy, oh, and still being taxed to ****.
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    As opposed to serfdom, involuntary military servitude, indoctrination through the Church, censorship of the wirtten word, suppression of free thought. being imprisoned for treason/heresy/unorthodoxy, oh, and still being taxed to ****.
    I honestly don't how feudalism is "leaving you alone". Like you are tied to a plot of land if you are a pleb.
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    As opposed to serfdom, involuntary military servitude, indoctrination through the Church, censorship of the wirtten word, suppression of free thought. being imprisoned for treason/heresy/unorthodoxy, oh, and still being taxed to ****.
    1) Serfs were tied to the land, but they were also taken care of by noblemen when times were tough. It was little different from the modern welfare state in many respects, except with a lack of movement permitted to stop nobles poaching each others' workers.
    2) People were free to believe whatever they liked, but traditional morality was heavily promoted. They fought to create a good society, rather than the sick and degenerate mess that the current state has purposely created.
    3) There was far less censorship than there is today. Certainly, there was no all pervasive surveillance and jail time for thought crimes.
    4) Number of people killed by inquisition: <2000. Generally, people could believe whatever they wanted, as long as they did not openly try and undermine the Church. There was no Thought Police.
    5) Average tax rate <5%, most of which hit noblemen. Really unjust, I am sure.
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    (Original post by 41b)
    1) Serfs were tied to the land, but they were also taken care of by noblemen when times were tough. It was little different from the modern welfare state in many respects, except with a lack of movement permitted to stop nobles poaching each others' workers.
    2) People were free to believe whatever they liked, but traditional morality was heavily promoted. They fought to create a good society, rather than the sick and degenerate mess that the current state has purposely created.
    3) There was far less censorship than there is today. Certainly, there was no all pervasive surveillance and jail time for thought crimes.
    4) Number of people killed by inquisition: <2000. Generally, people could believe whatever they wanted, as long as they did not openly try and undermine the Church. There was no Thought Police.
    5) Average tax rate <5%, most of which hit noblemen. Really unjust, I am sure.
    1) The very idea that workers were treated as property at risk of being 'poached' by another lord should tell you all you need to know about how free these people were.
    2) Free to believe what they liked? Tell that to the Cathars. Or anyone who happened to live near a Cathar. Or the Protestants under Mary. Or any non-conformist who lived under the Clarendon Code. Or anyone killed in the European wars of religion.
    3) Can't think of any books that have been banned lately
    4) So they could internally believe whatever they wanted, they just couldn't be seen to be believing those things or practice those beliefs. Cool. I'm guessing the <2000 figure refers only to the Spanish Inquisition, and it doesn't tell us anything about the numbers of people imprisoned, tortured or given penances. There were punishments other than execution. Regardless, 2000 people is still 2000 more than the number of people killed for religious non-conformity under modern liberal democracies.
    5) I admittedly don't know much about the history of taxation but that seems very low.
 
 
 
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