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Why are more people becoming Vegetarian? watch

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    (Original post by Rinsed)
    A society which rejected 'specieisism' would be so full of contradictions it's hard to know where to begin. I guess the obvious place to start is that human society is a human construct, and a preference towards humans is absolutely inherent.
    If this was an attempt to justify speciesism, it doesn't do much good.

    A society which rejected speciesism would act consistently with its logical conclusions. Changes would not happen instantly, but progress would be made gradually towards the overall goal.

    (Original post by Rinsed)
    Secondly, where do you draw the line? So slaughtering a cow is bad, but what about the mice who are killed by combine harvesters? Or the insects killed by pesticides? Or the animals whose habitat is lost when grassy fields for raising sheep or cows are turned over to high-density crop production? Or how about when I kill a wasp which is trying to steal my lunch and/or sting me? Or if I tread on an ant without noticing when I walk down the street? Or when we destroy habitat, again, to build houses or roads or harvest natural resources?
    This reads more as an appeal to undesirable consequences rather than a refutation of anti-speciesism.

    Practically, we would have to gradually make progress, and that involves eliminating the largest instances of suffering first. Mice being killed by combine harvesters can actually be avoided by using better technologies, moving towards veganic farming, and growing more of one's own food in one's house and backyard.

    But, do combine harvesters significantly kill mice in a habitat? A couple of studies have looked at this. Tew and MacDonald conducted a study in 1993. Their results? 1 in 33 mice were killed by the combine harvester. Not exactly significant. Cavia and colleagues did another study in 2005, and found that the density of animals on farms went down after harvesting. Why? They had moved to the forests instead. Mice do have senses, and they can generally move out of the way of combine harvesters.

    It's also worth noting that 40% of the world's grain is actually fed to nonhuman animals reared for meat, so, by consuming meat, one is responsible for the suffering of the nonhuman animals and the death of the odd mouse which may be killed. The expansion of pasture is also one of the best ways to destroy habitat, so grass-fed won't work either.

    As for insects, it's unlikely that they can feel pain or suffer; they are not sentient.

    Anti-speciesism is not to say that humans and nonhuman animals are equal in every respect. Most humans have an interest in continuing to live, and they have future plans and desires which wouldn't be satisfied if they were not to live. Ensuring that the lives of most humans continue, therefore, is more important than ensuring that the lives of most other animals continue, not because they're humans (indeed, severely intellectually disabled humans and human infants are also unable to reason and have no self-awareness), but because they have a preference to continue to live, whereas most nonhuman animals, but for a few, do not.

    (Original post by Rinsed)
    Let's face it, of all the animal suffering caused by humankind, meat production of the tip of the iceberg.
    Let's face it. Abolishing meat production will prevent 58 billion animals from going through the cycle of suffering and death every year.

    (Original post by Rinsed)
    I'm not sure I accept the premise that animal suffering is unnecessary.
    Yet you fail to provide a logical justification for this.

    (Original post by Rinsed)
    At best, this is an argument against certain methods of rearing animals. Rearing sheep on the North York Moors has negligible environmental impact compared to intensive beef production in the Americas. Actually, in the UK, most of the beef and lamb which we eat is grown in the UK and uses radically different methods to those exposed in Cowspiracy.
    Greenhouse gas emissions are still higher than those from the vast majority of plant-based products, nonetheless, particularly methane emissions.

    Plus, even if we assume that everyone switches to 100% grass-fed beef and lamb, we'd all have to drastically reduce our meat consumption anyway: there's simply not enough land for everyone to keep up their current rate of meat consumption and reduce the impact on sentient beings and environment.

    Essentially, the best way to reduce one's impact on the environment and sentient beings is to go vegan. I am, however, simply making an argument that we should do the most good we can do. I applaud people who reduce their meat consumption with a view to eliminating it, and who even go so far as to support the Reducetarian movement: I'm not an absolutist. In my view, Richard Dawkins put it best when he said: "Full vegetarianism is a noble ideal, but many are intimidated by an illogical fear that it has to be a single major, all-or-nothing leap. Reducetarianism is a good, humane, environment-friendly, step-by-step approach to an ideal whose time will finally come."


    (Original post by Rinsed)
    What, so you are suggesting we all just eat grain? One of the main reasons in favour of rearing animals it that it turns a pretty boring, starchy, not particularly nutritious food source (grain) into a much more appetising and nutrient rich one (meat). In any case, one could switch to eating grass-fed animals for whom this is much less of a thing.
    No, but given that many people have nothing to eat at all, taking grain from poor, developing countries where people are starving and feeding it to nonhuman animals in the developed world to satisfy our craving for meat is hardly justifiable.

    As for antibiotic resistance, a substantial proportion of our antibiotic use in Britain is still dedicated to the meat industry, and recent findings of MRSA strains in pork highlight all too well the dangers of meat production.
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    (Original post by viddy9)
    It's currently the cultural norm to eat the flesh of other animals. Cultural norms often change, particularly as morality progresses due to the triumph of reason over dogmatism, emotion and greed. As the moral philosopher Peter Singer put it, we've witnessed an expanding circle of moral concern: from giving weight solely to the interests of people close to us and similar to us to taking into account the interests of people of different races, sexes and sexual orientations, as well as people far away from us in different countries.

    Now, the next step is to equally consider the interests of nonhuman animals and all sentient beings. We already consider the interests of some nonhuman animals at certain points in time: people are outraged when dogs and cats have cruelty inflicted upon them, for instance. Yet, as a society, we have not fully rejected speciesism: the irrational discrimination against members of other species solely because they are not a member of the species Homo sapiens. We continue to slaughter 58 billion animals each year, most of whom are kept in appalling conditions, transported under great deals of stress on long journeys and then slaughtered, slaugher which, even in countries with the strictest welfare regulations, goes wrong, and therefore inflicts suffering, in a significant proportion of cases.

    What you have witnessed is most likely the acknowledgement that unnecessary suffering is wrong, regardless of the species of the victim. Jeremy Bentham, the founder of modern utilitarianism, lived in the 1700s, but was far ahead of his time. He was an advocate for, abolishing slavery, abolishing the death penalty, women's rights, and abolishing physical punishment inflicted on children. The two examples that best demonstrate his insightfulness, however, was his advocacy for gay rights and animal rights. As he wrote:



    The shift to vegetarianism may also be the result of acknowledging that the huge environmental damage caused by the meat industry cannot be justified (see the documentary, Cowspiracy, on Netflix for an excellent illustration of this). According to the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation, the meat industry is responsible for 14.5% of global greenhouse gas emissions, and this is a conservative estimate. For reference, the entire transportation sector is responsible for 15% of emissions - that's all the cars, planes, buses, trains and boats. This has led the UN Environment Program to state:

    "Impacts from agriculture are expected to increase substantially due to population growth increasing consumption of animal products. Unlike fossil fuels, it is difficult to look for alternatives: people have to eat. A substantial reduction of impacts would only be possible with a substantial worldwide diet change, away from animal products."

    The people you know may also be aware that 40% of the world's grain is fed to nonhuman animals reared for meat, and that if it were kept for humans instead, we'd have enough to feed around 1 billion people. Furthermore, the meat industry is one of the main sources of antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

    So, given all of this, and combined with the fact that vegetarian and vegan diets are just as healthy, if not more so, than diets containing animal products in them, it's unsurprising that the moral arc bends towards vegetarianism. As the American Dietetic Association have stated:





    Interesting assertion, but studies have found that, the higher the IQ, the more likely it is the person will be a vegetarian.



    Making a logically fallacious appeal to nature makes no sense, actually. Just because something is natural, doesn't mean it's right.
    A great reply :-)

    Aside from the infallible logic, my main reason for becoming vegetarian and then vegan from a young age is that I could never myself kill an animal, so why would I pay someone else to do that for me? On a personal level, it is completely the right decision for me.

    And since becoming vegan, honestly, I never get ill any more and I feel so much healthier within myself.
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    Also, may I point out, veganism isn't just for 'middle-class hipsters' and it's not something only the rich can afford. That's ridiculous. Many poor/ developing countries have a practically vegan diet and meat is considered a luxury or something only eaten on special occasions. The only way it may become expensive is if you're set on buying the fancy 'mock meat' products from Holland and Barrett or whatever, something not at all necessary.

    This is somewhat unrelated to my comment but the people being sent to Mars will be on a 100% vegan diet. NASA clearly thinks it's good enough:

    http://www.isciencetimes.com/article...ssion-mars.htm
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    (Original post by Bupdeeboowah)
    But we don't like it when they go all full-out Birmingham Islamic hate-preacher/Floridian Islamaphobic pastor when they try to make you change your diet choices. Why can't these vegans be more like the Mormons?

    Must be the lack of meat.
    I have to ask: would you try and convince a cannibal to change their ways? Or would you simply sit back and declare that it's their diet.

    (Original post by Rinsed)
    Which explains why it's mainly middle-class hipsters.
    I'm not sure there is anything to back that up, other than personal anecdotes. A large portion of vegetarians are likely to be Buddhist, Hindu and Jain.
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    (Original post by Jonathan Crane)
    Humans are naturally omnivorous, choosing to be anything else makes no sense.
    You don't understand what omnivore means.

    It is a description of what we are able to eat.
    It is not a prescription of what we ought to eat.

    Vegans, vegetarians, pescatarians, humans who eat meat, humans who eat only meat, and even humans who eat literally nothing and soon starve to death are all omnivores.

    The term omnivores has no relation to being ethical. Nor does it had any relation to being unethical. It has no relation to what someone's ethical beliefs are.
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    I've been a vegan for a year now (vegetarian all my life) and I can honestly say that going veggie IS NOT something you do for fashion or trends!!! Most vegans and vegetarians I know are in it for the animals rights, their health, and the planet we live on.

    I highly recommend watching the following documentaries so that you know what veganism is all about:

    The Best Speech You Will Ever Hear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

    Earthlings (moral reasons): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

    Also, download the documentary Forks over Knives to find out about the health reasons and the documentary Cowspiracy to find out about the environmental reasons.

    Vegetarianism and veganism is not a phase, it is a healthy and ethical lifestyle
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    I have to ask: would you try and convince a cannibal to change their ways? Or would you simply sit back and declare that it's their diet.
    Would I try convincing a cannibal to stop eating humans through force and coercion?

    To be frank I'll just eat him so that he ceases to exist.
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    (Original post by ivy.98)
    I started to read a lot about the meat industry until I came to the point where I could not enjoy meat anymore. At first my parents convinced me to at least eat fish, but that wasn't really an option, having feelings of guilt every time you eat something.
    I have had that feeling come and go with regards to egg and dairy products, but for some reason I still haven't been able to switch to a completely vegan diet
    Feeling of guilt? You didn't kill those animals, you just ate them. Even if you would go vegetarian, animals would still be killed for food. #Bacon4Life
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    Because most people cannot stomach the fact that an animal dies to feed their habit. And furthermore would not be able to kill the animal.

    Also never trust a veggie.
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    (Original post by Bupdeeboowah)
    Would I try convincing a cannibal to stop eating humans through force and coercion?

    To be frank I'll just eat him so that he ceases to exist.
    That's kind of the point then. So why is it strange that vegetarians try to make you change your diet choices.
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    (Original post by 0123456543210)
    Feeling of guilt? You didn't kill those animals, you just ate them. Even if you would go vegetarian, animals would still be killed for food. #Bacon4Life
    It's kind of sad when someone is unable to understand the basic concepts of supply and demand.
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    (Original post by daydreamer4life)
    I've been a vegan for a year now (vegetarian all my life) and I can honestly say that going veggie IS NOT something you do for fashion or trends!!! Most vegans and vegetarians I know are in it for the animals rights, their health, and the planet we live on.

    I highly recommend watching the following documentaries so that you know what veganism is all about:

    The Best Speech You Will Ever Hear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

    Earthlings (moral reasons): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

    Also, download the documentary Forks over Knives to find out about the health reasons and the documentary Cowspiracy to find out about the environmental reasons.

    Vegetarianism and veganism is not a phase, it is a healthy and ethical lifestyle
    The guy in the first video is an absolute tosser. He does make some very solid arguments, but he's also as a person, a bigoted idiot. I personally wouldn't promote his videos.
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    (Original post by 0123456543210)
    Feeling of guilt? You didn't kill those animals, you just ate them. Even if you would go vegetarian, animals would still be killed for food. #Bacon4Life
    If we're going to kill and eat other living creatures, I feel there are humane ways of doing so. The idea of what calves and chicks and the living conditions for other creatures capable of feeling pain and fear is awful to me. I refuse to support an industry like that.
    Factory farming is unreasonably cruel as well as terrible for the environment
    And I get sick of pushy meat eaters like you. Trying to force their views onto me.
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    It's just a fad diet
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    I'm guessing you're a teenager?

    It's a pretty popular time for people to start making their own life choices - just as they're growing up and developing their own opinions and they're less shackled by their parents rules. You're in that age group so it's more likely for you to see the people around you becoming vegetarian and whole bunch of other things. Less likely in my age group.
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    That's kind of the point then. So why is it strange that vegetarians try to make you change your diet choices.
    I find it strange that they try to change your diet choices by attempting to shame you to death with their supposed logic, morals and facts (which are not one least bit convincing), and then proceed to fly into a frothing rage when you disagree with them, using logic, morals and facts.

    Which is about as counterproductive as eating a cannibal in order to convert him.
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    Guess people are becoming more educated on where their food comes from and consider ethical reasons... contemplated on being vegetarian but i love chicken!!!
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    (Original post by Bupdeeboowah)
    I find it strange that they try to change your diet choices by attempting to shame you to death with their supposed logic, morals and facts (which are not one least bit convincing), and then proceed to fly into a frothing rage when you disagree with them, using logic, morals and facts.
    Even worse, when vegans do exactly that, but to vegetarians. Because vegetarian isn't good enough for some vegans. There are some vegans who ruthlessly criticise vegetarians because they still drink milk and/or eat eggs, even though vegetarians and vegans are usually on the same side of the argument.

    It's one thing when it's vegetarians and vegans against meat eaters, but vegans criticisng vegetarians for not doing enough for animal welfare is just madness. I've seen it happen at least once on this forum, and I've seen it in the media sometimes as well.
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    (Original post by RFowler)
    Even worse, when vegans do exactly that, but to vegetarians. Because vegetarian isn't good enough for some vegans. There are some vegans who ruthlessly criticise vegetarians because they still drink milk and/or eat eggs, even though vegetarians and vegans are usually on the same side of the argument.

    It's one thing when it's vegetarians and vegans against meat eaters, but vegans criticisng vegetarians for not doing enough for animal welfare is just madness. I've seen it happen at least once on this forum, and I've seen it in the media sometimes as well.
    #radicalornotatall
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    (Original post by RFowler)
    Even worse, when vegans do exactly that, but to vegetarians. Because vegetarian isn't good enough for some vegans. There are some vegans who ruthlessly criticise vegetarians because they still drink milk and/or eat eggs, even though vegetarians and vegans are usually on the same side of the argument.

    It's one thing when it's vegetarians and vegans against meat eaters, but vegans criticisng vegetarians for not doing enough for animal welfare is just madness. I've seen it happen at least once on this forum, and I've seen it in the media sometimes as well.
    I'm not sure that vegetarianism does any good. Most meat is replaced by more dairy and eggs, and those industries are just as bad as the meat industry.
 
 
 
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