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Has Corbyn dumbed down the Labour Party by purging Oxbridge grads? watch

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    Snobbery against politicians who went to Oxbridge is just as silly as snobbery against those who didn't. It's absolutely ludicrous to suggest that a cabinet made up of more Russell Group than Oxbridge graduates would be a liability on that basis. We should assess an individual's suitability for political leadership by their qualities and achievements, not their alma mater.

    It's been said before, but Churchill had to repeat years at Harrow due to academic failure and it took him a few goes to pass the exams to get into Sandhurst, which was the extent of his higher education - and this was despite being the first cousin of the Duke of Marlborough and being raised with every advantage. He later won the Nobel Prize in Literature and has gone down in posterity as one of the greatest British military leaders and orators of all time.

    John Major barely got any GCSEs and failed to become a bus driver before becoming Chancellor and then PM.

    On the other hand, Nick Griffin went to Cambridge and Enoch Powell achieved a double-starred first in Classics there.

    I'm sure we've all met utter cretins who got in to Oxbridge and came out the other end thanks to a combination of luck, mummy's essay-writing skills, daddy's money and the aristocratic confidence and self-belief that kids from the upper and upper-middle classes are often endowed with by their upbringing. Oxbridge degees aren't even much of a guarantee of intelligence anymore - it certainly shouldn't be assumed that between an Oxbridge grad and a non-Oxbridge grad, the former will be the more intelligent in any area - and they certainly aren't guarantees of many of the other qualities we should be looking for in our politicians.
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    (Original post by driftawaay)
    Good, he should be getting rid of rich toffs who dont even know how much a pint of milk costs.
    I'd much rather a PM who doesn't know how much a pint of milk costs than a snob who judges someone based on how long their vowels are.

    (Original post by marco14196)
    I think the country is fed up with incompetent Oxbridge graduates if I am being honest. What idiot thought that a History graduate could be a Chancellor? Don't make me laugh.
    Why shouldn't a history graduate serve as Chancellor? Churchill did a pretty good job of founding the welfare state despite never going to university and having no financial background.
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    (Original post by a noble chance)
    Snobbery against politicians who went to Oxbridge is just as silly as snobbery against those who didn't. It's absolutely ludicrous to suggest that a cabinet made up of more Russell Group than Oxbridge graduates would be a liability on that basis. We should assess an individual's suitability for political leadership by their qualities and achievements, not their alma mater.

    It's been said before, but Churchill had to repeat years at Harrow due to academic failure and it took him a few goes to pass the exams to get into Sandhurst, which was the extent of his higher education - and this was despite being the first cousin of the Duke of Marlborough and being raised with every advantage. He later won the Nobel Prize in Literature and has gone down in posterity as one of the greatest British military leaders and orators of all time.

    John Major barely got any GCSEs and failed to become a bus driver before becoming Chancellor and then PM.

    On the other hand, Nick Griffin went to Cambridge and Enoch Powell achieved a double-starred first in Classics there.

    I'm sure we've all met utter cretins who got in to Oxbridge and came out the other end thanks to a combination of luck, mummy's essay-writing skills, daddy's money and the aristocratic confidence and self-belief that kids from the upper and upper-middle classes are often endowed with by their upbringing. Oxbridge degees aren't even much of a guarantee of intelligence anymore - it certainly shouldn't be assumed that between an Oxbridge grad and a non-Oxbridge grad, the former will be the more intelligent in any area - and they certainly aren't guarantees of many of the other qualities we should be looking for in our politicians.
    Well said.
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    I think the Labour Party would certainly benefit from having my son Sheridan in there - such a brilliant mind. He's at university, you know?

    He'll hate me for saying it, but I do wish he would join a more "executive" party. I think the Labour Party is rather lower middle class.
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    Too right, and John Major wasn't all that bad

    The elitism of the OP is quite stark.
    Elitism is bad?
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Elitism is bad?
    Not necessarily, and it was incorrect of me to convey it so simply

    I think these is a significant misplaced emphasis from the OP on the importance of people having been to elite academic institutions and then being the ones who run the country.

    Elitism has it's place, but not on this occasion.
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    A number of American unis are often higher rated. Is Cameron dumbing down the Cabinet by having second-rate Oxbridge grads rather than importing Harvard and MIT grads?
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    Not necessarily, and it was incorrect of me to convey it so simply

    I think these is a significant misplaced emphasis from the OP on the importance of people having been to elite academic institutions and then being the ones who run the country.

    Elitism has it's place, but not on this occasion.
    Most people from elite institutions are incredibly smart, but the thing with Oxbridge is they study with some people who will eventually become future-foreign heads of state.

    Its easier negotiating a trade deal with China when your Foreign Secretary studied at Oxford with their PM!

    Unfortunately, your "less-elite" can't duplicate this to the same degree.

    Why do you think JP Morgan hired Tony Blair's son? Because its who you know, not what you know.
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    [QUOTE=chocolate hottie;60127789]We all know that Jezza scraped two E's in his A Levels and could only get into a Poly/QUOTE]

    He clearly was lazy (typical socialist!) he went to a grammar, many people done a lot better at worse schools. By all accounts his son got into Cambridge.
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    (Original post by Lady Comstock)
    A number of American unis are often higher rated. Is Cameron dumbing down the Cabinet by having second-rate Oxbridge grads rather than importing Harvard and MIT grads?
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    (Original post by Lady Comstock)
    A number of American unis are often higher rated. Is Cameron dumbing down the Cabinet by having second-rate Oxbridge grads rather than importing Harvard and MIT grads?
    American Universities might be better, and a lot better at undergraduate yet it is the calibre of students who get into them. Top tier UK universities such as Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, LSE and Durham I would the students are on par with the ivy league and MIT, Stanford etc intellectually at least.
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Not really.

    UCL over Oxbridge = dumbing down according to the OP.
    So, the logic leads to Oxbridge over Harvard and MIT = dumbing down.
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Most people from elite institutions are incredibly smart, but the thing with Oxbridge is they study with some people who will eventually become future-foreign heads of state.

    Its easier negotiating a trade deal with China when your Foreign Secretary studied at Oxford with their PM!

    Unfortunately, your "less-elite" can't duplicate this to the same degree.

    Why do you think JP Morgan hired Tony Blair's son? Because its who you know, not what you know.
    The thing is, being "smart", being able to put forward arguments rationally, is not the same as being practical and getting things done. Nor does it indicate a whole host of soft skills involved in actually properly managing people.

    Am not anti-Oxbridge. I think Oxbridge graduates are always going to be over represented in positions of power, and often rightly so. I do however think there is a snooty prejudice when it comes to Oxbridge, and certainly MBAs are not nearly as respected here (outside the business world) as they are in others parts of the world.

    However the lack of Oxbridge credentials does not mean someone isn't good enough to be a leader, as does the lack of a University degree.
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    (Original post by chocolate hottie)
    We all know that Jezza scraped two E's in his A Levels and could only get into a Poly, but did you know that his support team is almost exclusively red brick, not Oxbridge?

    http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/l...intellectuals/

    Has Corbyn dumbed down the Labour Party in this (and other) ways?

    With all out problems, can Britain really risk electing a leader too stupid to even get into university with a Shadow Cabinet composed of graduates of second tier universities?
    Maybe we should be looking for the best person for the job rather than judging them purely on the university they attended (or didn't).

    Also, your link is surprisingly badly researched. Neither Sussex nor Westminster are Red Bricks. Sussex is a Plate Glass Uni and Westminster is an ex-Poly and so is classed as a New University.
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    The reach.
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    This thread isn't worth taking seriously...
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    (Original post by Lady Comstock)
    Not really.

    UCL over Oxbridge = dumbing down according to the OP.
    So, the logic leads to Oxbridge over Harvard and MIT = dumbing down.
    The students at Harvard and Oxbridge are of the same ability, Harvard ranks higher due to spending, citations etc.

    The gap between Oxbridge and UCL in terms of student ability is much larger than Oxbridge Harvard.
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    The students at Harvard and Oxbridge are of the same ability, Harvard ranks higher due to spending, citations etc.

    The gap between Oxbridge and UCL in terms of student ability is much larger than Oxbridge Harvard.
    Lol srsly? There are plenty of students at Oxbridge and UCL with the same A-levels and academic ability.
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    (Original post by chocolate hottie)
    We all know that Jezza scraped two E's in his A Levels and could only get into a Poly, but did you know that his support team is almost exclusively red brick, not Oxbridge?

    http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/l...intellectuals/

    Has Corbyn dumbed down the Labour Party in this (and other) ways?

    With all out problems, can Britain really risk electing a leader too stupid to even get into university with a Shadow Cabinet composed of graduates of second tier universities?
    No. He hasn't "dumbed down" the party in any way.

    He has been an MP for over 30 years. I think his time at university is a little behind him now.

    Not going to Oxbridge doesn't make you thick. His shadow cabinet was chosen on the basis of talent, not which university they went to. He also chose people who've actually lived, not just gone to Eton then Oxbridge then to a cushy research job because they have rich parents.

    He did his a levels nearly 50 years ago. Do you not think that he might have changed since then? Given that aging generally does change a person. I've met Jeremy and one thing he is definitely not is stupid. Some people just never do well in exams. Einstein was particularly bad at school. Was he stupid?

    Very few people ever go to Oxbridge. Is it right that we should be ruled by people who chose to go to a certain university at the age of 18? Many people want to do courses that aren't offered by Oxbridge. Should they be considered stupid because they wanted to do a degree in teaching or nursing or dietetics or something else not offered by Oxbridge? Of course not. That would be ridiculous.

    Many people feel that the pressured, highly academic feel of universities like that is something that they would loathe. They would prefer a much more relaxed, friendlier atmosphere. Should these people be excluded from politics?
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    I really dislike labour and I don't rate Corbyn at all but this thread is idiotic. What university you went to does not determine if you're a good leader or not.
 
 
 
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