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Guys, if a girl asked you out on a date... watch

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    I'd swoon ngl.

    Even if I didn't like her at all XD

    Just the concept of a girl liking me that much that she decides to take it upon herself to be forward and say "**** that ****" to gender roles. Ahhh that's amazing.
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    (Original post by addyaxis)
    I used to always believe this, but no actually. On the basis that intersex children exist, it pretty much proves that it's all behavioural. Do look up what intersex means and come to your own conclusion.

    Basically, children can be born with various genitals (vague or unclear or both), but sometimes someone can be born with a vagina or penis and look completely 'normal' only to find out that in their puberty stage (they haven't grown boobs or gotten a period etc) that they have had equal amounts of testosterone, for example, as a guy and also have XY chromosones so they actually have internal male sex organs. But due to parents seeing a vagina, they instantly believe they are a girl and raise them in that gendered way. This is different to a trans person, who has everything, typically, a female/male sex person would have but their brain tells different.
    So is gender a choice? Also, are you a feminist btw?
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Would you mind if she seemed a but nervous or shy when asking?

    I'm going to ask my crush to join me a coffee or lunch date but I'm so scared of tripping on my words, or giggling or going red. I want to seem really confident when asking him but I'm scared I will seem more shy than confident!

    Thank you
    Awww I would find that endearing
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    (Original post by Flying Lotus)
    So is gender a choice? Also, are you a feminist btw?
    It's not a choice in a way that we are conditioned to believe we have certain personality traits attached to our genitals.
    Since birth we are categorised to act certain ways by coloured clothing and gendered toys. We are told that we have specific roles in life (women being carers while men are fighters, usually accompanied by baby dolls and toy guns respectively). Although all these connections are arbitary and don't make sense. Anybody saying evolution plays a part is sadly wrong. During the stoneage etc, both parents cared for children etc. In other countries, matriarchies exist rather than patriarchies but male dominance as the neutral gender (anything different being the other gender) is imposed in western culture.

    Yes and I have done feminist linguistics, taught mainly by male teachers. Doing a humanities degree you just learn that everything is fake and wrong and we live in weird structures that aren't naturally 'correct'.

    As for your question, you can choose to ignore gender and live a 'genderless' life by trying hard to be androgynous. But that's difficult when certain aspects to personality etc is assigned a gender anyway. It's also quite forced while female/male genders are conditioned from birth and we are not at fault to act certain ways or to like certain things (such as fashion etc).
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Would you mind if she seemed a but nervous or shy when asking?

    I'm going to ask my crush to join me a coffee or lunch date but I'm so scared of tripping on my words, or giggling or going red. I want to seem really confident when asking him but I'm scared I will seem more shy than confident!

    Thank you
    I'd recommend not deliberately being shy and nervous when asking, but especially as a girl, I can imagine that being quite endearing.
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    (Original post by addyaxis)
    It's not a choice in a way that we are conditioned to believe we have certain personality traits attached to our genitals.
    Since birth we are categorised to act certain ways by coloured clothing and gendered toys. We are told that we have specific roles in life (women being carers while men are fighters, usually accompanied by baby dolls and toy guns respectively). Although all these connections are arbitary and don't make sense. Anybody saying evolution plays a part is sadly wrong. During the stoneage etc, both parents cared for children etc. In other countries, matriarchies exist rather than patriarchies but male dominance as the neutral gender (anything different being the other gender) is imposed in western culture.

    Yes and I have done feminist linguistics, taught mainly by male teachers. Doing a humanities degree you just learn that everything is fake and wrong and we live in weird structures that aren't naturally 'correct'.

    As for your question, you can choose to ignore gender and live a 'genderless' life by trying hard to be androgynous. But that's difficult when certain aspects to personality etc is assigned a gender anyway. It's also quite forced while female/male genders are conditioned from birth and we are not at fault to act certain ways or to like certain things (such as fashion etc).
    You make a sweeping generalization that people 'tell' their daughters that they are 'carers' and that the sons are 'fighters'. I don't know anybody in the modern world that's actually physically been told this? I was told I could be a scientist. I was told I can be an engineer. I was told I can be a nurse, or a doctor or a pilot. I was told I could be a mother, although it would be extremely difficult. I was told I can be whatever I want to be as long as I work hard. As a child, I was given teddy bears and cuddly toys. After that, I was bought the toys that I specifically requested (if I behaved myself and deserved them). It would be silly to assume that 'the woman stays at home whilst the father goes out and works' is what actually happens. My mother did pause her career to give birth to me and look after me, and my father did carry on working. But how else is it going to work? My dad cooked whilst my mother was busy, my dad cleaned, my dad changed my nappy when sh*t hit the literal fan, my dad fed me. My parents had equal but different roles. Oh and this was before tumblr and feminist blogs existed. Practically every person I know has had similar experiences. The ones that haven't, have crappy fathers.

    What modern countries exist where matriachy exists? I've heard of some tribes where women have multiple husbands, but I don't know any modern countries in the East that are matriarchal. Sex and gender have an intricate and important role in society. I dropped out of a humantiies degree because I thought it was exceptionally watered down and went for a STEM degree instead.
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    Hey guys I am the OP I don't mean to be rude but can we please not turn this thread into a gender war? Thank you.
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    (Original post by Oh no not again!)
    I think guys are more attracted to girls when they are slightly timid.

    Whereas girls are probably more attracted to confidence.

    So don't worry if you come off shy or nervous as he might find that sweet.
    not all of us arent, id rather a girl who had confidence rather than some meek little lamb any day of the week.

    (Original post by Oh no not again!)
    I know it may seem silly, but it's an evolutionary trait.

    The more vulnerable the female looks the more the guy finds her attractive.
    I didnt know white knighting passive aggressive "nice guy" BS was an evolutionary trait.

    You may see vulnerable as attractive, i see it as needy with a side salad host of problems.

    Anyway OP no i dont think the guy would mind if you were nervous. Its never easy asking someone out.
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    (Original post by Flying Lotus)
    You make a sweeping generalization that people 'tell' their daughters that they are 'carers' and that the sons are 'fighters'. I don't know anybody in the modern world that's actually physically been told this? I was told I could be a scientist. I was told I can be an engineer. I was told I can be a nurse, or a doctor or a pilot. I was told I could be a mother, although it would be extremely difficult. I was told I can be whatever I want to be as long as I work hard. As a child, I was given teddy bears and cuddly toys. After that, I was bought the toys that I specifically requested (if I behaved myself and deserved them). It would be silly to assume that 'the woman stays at home whilst the father goes out and works' is what actually happens. My mother did pause her career to give birth to me and look after me, and my father did carry on working. But how else is it going to work? My dad cooked whilst my mother was busy, my dad cleaned, my dad changed my nappy when sh*t hit the literal fan, my dad fed me. My parents had equal but different roles. Oh and this was before tumblr and feminist blogs existed. Practically every person I know has had similar experiences. The ones that haven't, have crappy fathers.

    What modern countries exist where matriachy exists? I've heard of some tribes where women have multiple husbands, but I don't know any modern countries in the East that are matriarchal. Sex and gender have an intricate and important role in society. I dropped out of a humantiies degree because I thought it was exceptionally watered down and went for a STEM degree instead.
    Yeah I know my degree is pretty ****ty.

    You tell me not to generalise but you base everyone's experience on yours and a handful of others. Why is there such difference in jobs? Why aren't there more women in construction or engineering? Why aren't more women in CEO roles? Why do countries mostly give maternity leave and 2 weeks paternity in comparison?

    We live in a 1st world country (I presume), but middle eastern countries still enforce roles on women and men, such as cutting an education for a woman short to have children etc.

    What important role does gender have in society apart from creating unneccesary barriers?
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hey guys I am the OP I don't mean to be rude but can we please not turn this thread into a gender war? Thank you.
    Too late OP, sorry XD

    What's your backstory with this guy? Just wanted to know the tale that lead up to you deciding to ask him out
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    (Original post by addyaxis)
    Yeah I know my degree is pretty ****ty.

    You tell me not to generalise but you base everyone's experience on yours and a handful of others. Why is there such difference in jobs? Why aren't there more women in construction or engineering? Why aren't more women in CEO roles? Why do countries mostly give maternity leave and 2 weeks paternity in comparison?

    We live in a 1st world country (I presume), but middle eastern countries still enforce roles on women and men, such as cutting an education for a woman short to have children etc.

    What important role does gender have in society apart from creating unneccesary barriers?
    Well, firstly there will never be a 50/50 balance, and I don't why people would want there to be a 50/50 balance? Does it really make any difference? What's stopping women from becoming construction workers or engineers? Why are you studying humanities instead of working in a mine? Why don't you sign up to join the military? Maybe because you don't want to do any of that. To blame that on because it's what you've been 'conditioned' to what to do in life is silly. My mother is a great woman, but she's homophobic and my dad is a subtle racist. Throughout my whole life, I've had hammered into me that being gay is wrong and immigrants are *******s. Do I think being gay is wrong? Nope! It's beautiful. Do I hate immigrants or have any issues with immigrants? Nope! I can think for myself. Not everybody is a product of the 'society' or 'conditioning' we get battered into us from a young age. I like to think our generation is free thinking, open minded and analytical, and I like to think we have a bit more common sense to just believe whatever our parents tell us.

    Those issues of the middle east..well the middle east is almost entirely patriarchal and they have a pretty archaic, backward way of thinking when it comes to certain issues (in a political sense, I'm not saying Middle-Eastern people themselves are backward).

    I think I read that there are now more female medical students/doctors than there are males. But it's sort of like asking, well why aren't there more male beauty salon therapists? Why aren't there more male nurses?

    It comes down to what individuals want. In terms of why aren't there more female CEOs, well, firstly they do exist. There's not as many, but they do exist. I work for one. I read it comes down to personality traits that are inately evolutionary, i.e. risk taking, dominance, leadership in a business environment etc that is more existent in males then then there are females. That's not to say those traits don't exist in females, but it's not as prevalent.

    You still haven't named a modern matriarchal society. Modern the keyword, Ancient Egypt or some remote tribe doesn't count
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    (Original post by Flying Lotus)
    Well, firstly there will never be a 50/50 balance, and I don't why people would want there to be a 50/50 balance? Does it really make any difference? What's stopping women from becoming construction workers or engineers? Why are you studying humanities instead of working in a mine? Why don't you sign up to join the military? Maybe because you don't want to do any of that. To blame that on because it's what you've been 'conditioned' to what to do in life is silly. My mother is a great woman, but she's homophobic and my dad is a subtle racist. Throughout my whole life, I've had hammered into me that being gay is wrong and immigrants are *******s. Do I think being gay is wrong? Nope! It's beautiful. Do I hate immigrants or have any issues with immigrants? Nope! I can think for myself. Not everybody is a product of the 'society' or 'conditioning' we get battered into us from a young age. I like to think our generation is free thinking, open minded and analytical, and I like to think we have a bit more common sense to just believe whatever our parents tell us.

    Those issues of the middle east..well the middle east is almost entirely patriarchal and they have a pretty archaic, backward way of thinking when it comes to certain issues (in a political sense, I'm not saying Middle-Eastern people themselves are backward).

    I think I read that there are now more female medical students/doctors than there are males. But it's sort of like asking, well why aren't there more male beauty salon therapists? Why aren't there more male nurses?

    It comes down to what individuals want. In terms of why aren't there more female CEOs, well, firstly they do exist. There's not as many, but they do exist. I work for one. I read it comes down to personality traits that are inately evolutionary, i.e. risk taking, dominance etc that is more existent in males then then there are females. That's not to say those traits don't exist in females, but it's not as prevalent.

    You still haven't named a modern matriarchal society. Modern the keyword, Ancient Egypt or some remote tribe doesn't count
    It's not a question of 50/50, it's a question of why are 1/2% of a gender in a certain field and other crazy statistics. And yes it does make a difference. Whenever there is a particular representation (for example just showing men in a fighting game) implies certain things such as women don't fight etc.

    What's stopping women from being in construction is because girls are told to never get dirty or do manual labour as a child, that they are fragile and gentle and beautiful etc etc. When women do want to work in male dominant fields, they get very little respect. As for medical/science students being mainly female, please look up the statistics as to how many actually get into that job role. It's easy for anyone to get accepted into uni due to grades and achievements (their gender doesn't stop them), but when genuinely selected for job roles... well...

    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...hy-it-matters/

    As for you saying your parents are this and that, if the whole of society was the same around you, you would also be a homophobe racist. But because you have seen other view points you have decided to act against your parents' ideaologies.

    As I explained before about intersex children, children are conditioned into these personality traits, they aren't evolutionary as you put it. And there have been many many cases of this happening.

    Just think to yourself why are certain things associated differently with both genders such as being sexually active or being bossy?

    When someone makes a post about whether they can ask out someone with different genitals to them, we have to wonder why would they quesiton that. Why?

    I'm out.
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    (Original post by thechemistress)
    Too late OP, sorry XD

    What's your backstory with this guy? Just wanted to know the tale that lead up to you deciding to ask him out
    Oh dear, what did I start there? Anyway he seems like a really nice guy, we are members of the same society at uni I've been trying to flirt but I'm quite shy so I think it has just come across as me being friendly. I don't think he's got the message that I like him and I'm not sure what he thinks about me... Since I'm so bad at giving hints and I thought it may be better just to be direct and ask face to face if he would like to spend some time getting to know each other by going on a date :blush:
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    (Original post by silverbolt)
    not all of us arent, id rather a girl who had confidence rather than some meek little lamb any day of the week.



    I didnt know white knighting passive aggressive "nice guy" BS was an evolutionary trait.

    You may see vulnerable as attractive, i see it as needy with a side salad host of problems.

    Anyway OP no i dont think the guy would mind if you were nervous. Its never easy asking someone out.
    Why you getting all emotional?

    Alright cool maybe not all, I should have rephrased that, but some don't want an over possessive female, as it can turn the relationship sour and it's happened before.
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    (Original post by addyaxis)
    It's not a question of 50/50, it's a question of why are 1/2% of a gender in a certain field and other crazy statistics. And yes it does make a difference. Whenever there is a particular representation (for example just showing men in a fighting game) implies certain things such as women don't fight etc.

    What's stopping women from being in construction is because girls are told to never get dirty or do manual labour as a child, that they are fragile and gentle and beautiful etc etc. When women do want to work in male dominant fields, they get very little respect. As for medical/science students being mainly female, please look up the statistics as to how many actually get into that job role. It's easy for anyone to get accepted into uni due to grades and achievements (their gender doesn't stop them), but when genuinely selected for job roles... well...

    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...hy-it-matters/

    As for you saying your parents are this and that, if the whole of society was the same around you, you would also be a homophobe racist. But because you have seen other view points you have decided to act against your parents' ideaologies.

    As I explained before about intersex children, children are conditioned into these personality traits, they aren't evolutionary as you put it. And there have been many many cases of this happening.

    Just think to yourself why are certain things associated differently with both genders such as being sexually active or being bossy?

    When someone makes a post about whether they can ask out someone with different genitals to them, we have to wonder why would they quesiton that. Why?

    I'm out.
    No, I don't take on the views of society without conducting my own analysis of it first.

    I don't know who's been telling you women are told to never get dirty? I have never, ever heard of this in my life. When I was a child, the girls and boys played together in the dirt and with eachothers toys.

    As for adult females getting dirty, well, I direct you to the porn industry. Much more female pornstars then there are male, huge gender pay gap in that industry btw :rolleyes: I don't see many females demanding more male pornstars.
    More seriously, women historically have undertaken labour? Women worked in factories, women picked cotton, they have done all kinds of things.

    How many 'intersex' children are there in the 8 billion people that occupy this Earth? They are an anomaly. Gender neutral parenting is not the same as androgyny btw.
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    Please peeps, take the gender war to PM or make another thread
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Oh dear, what did I start there? Anyway he seems like a really nice guy, we are members of the same society at uni I've been trying to flirt but I'm quite shy so I think it has just come across as me being friendly. I don't think he's got the message that I like him and I'm not sure what he thinks about me... Since I'm so bad at giving hints and I thought it may be better just to be direct and ask face to face if he would like to spend some time getting to know each other by going on a date :blush:
    That is absolutely adorable wishing you luck OP, let us know how it goes? XD
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    (Original post by Flying Lotus)
    No, I don't take on the views of society without conducting my own analysis of it first.

    I don't know who's been telling you women are told to never get dirty? I have never, ever heard of this in my life. When I was a child, the girls and boys played together in the dirt and with eachothers toys.

    As for adult females getting dirty, well, I direct you to the porn industry. Much more female pornstars then there are male, huge gender pay gap in that industry btw :rolleyes: I don't see many females demanding more male pornstars.
    More seriously, women historically have undertaken labour? Women worked in factories, women picked cotton, they have done all kinds of things.

    How many 'intersex' children are there in the 8 billion people that occupy this Earth? They are an anomaly. Gender neutral parenting is not the same as androgyny btw.
    Yes and women could also not vote and are treated as an underclass in some countries.

    And yes women have been demanding safer and more pleasant porn for a long time now with very little done apart from making a 'female friendly' section on sites which says a lot about their content.
    This all comes down to women being sexual objects compared to men, as to why more women are in the porn industry.

    I've studied gender and equally have read a lot of studies and watched plenty on it. You are making general assumptions of vague history plucked from your brain. There is no point debating since you're not educated enough. One thing i don't like about Tumblr is that it's very attacking in the way that it deals with people (in particular girls) who don't understand real issues about gender gaps, by calling them out and bullying them. When really, everyone starts off by not understanding or knowing.

    Everyone likes to believe we make our own choices purely and we have total control.

    I'm not going to debate you until you're more well read. It's nice to see your parents brought you up in a household of gender equality. Not everyone gets that, and the statistics show.
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    (Original post by addyaxis)
    Yes and women could also not vote and are treated as an underclass in some countries.

    And yes women have been demanding safer and more pleasant porn for a long time now with very little done apart from making a 'female friendly' section on sites which says a lot about their content.
    This all comes down to women being sexual objects compared to men, as to why more women are in the porn industry.

    I've studied gender and equally have read a lot of studies and watched plenty on it. You are making general assumptions of vague history plucked from your brain. There is no point debating since you're not educated enough. One thing i don't like about Tumblr is that it's very attacking in the way that it deals with people (in particular girls) who don't understand real issues about gender gaps, by calling them out and bullying them. When really, everyone starts off by not understanding or knowing.

    Everyone likes to believe we make our own choices purely and we have total control.

    I'm not going to debate you until you're more well read. It's nice to see your parents brought you up in a household of gender equality. Not everyone gets that, and the statistics show.
    My father abused my mother, cheated on her with his female boss (what a coincidence) and then left her. So yeah, I was lucky to be brought up in a household of 'gender equality' yeah right. At least my mother rinsed his sorry ass in court and got most of his money. #Equality

    Okay, so you're telling me, you're on a humanities degree because that's what you've been conditioned? Your mentality is so bleak. It's like you're shooting yourself in the foot because you're female, (or whatever you identify yourself as, I don't know I'm not the most PC person in existence)

    Refusing to debate somebody because they are 'less well read' than you doesn't achieve anything, it undermines your cause as you are not willing to educate others.

    If you want to become CEO of a company, the only thing that is stopping you is your attitude to females. You don't sound like a strong, independent woman who believes she can do whatever she wants in life as long as she works hard. You seem to think we're all conditioned into being pretty housewives which is just sad :/
    Is that all you've absorbed from your 'gender studies'? Do you really feel oppressed right now? I don't.
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    (Original post by Flying Lotus)
    My father abused my mother, cheated on her with his female boss (what a coincidence) and then left her. So yeah, I was lucky to be brought up in a household of 'gender equality' yeah right. At least my mother rinsed his sorry ass in court and got most of his money. #Equality

    Okay, so you're telling me, you're on a humanities degree because that's what you've been conditioned? Your mentality is so bleak. It's like you're shooting yourself in the foot because you're female, (or whatever you identify yourself as, I don't know I'm not the most PC person in existence)

    Refusing to debate somebody because they are 'less well read' than you doesn't achieve anything, it undermines your cause as you are not willing to educate others.

    If you want to become CEO of a company, the only thing that is stopping you is your attitude to females. You don't sound like a strong, independent woman who believes she can do whatever she wants in life as long as she works hard. You seem to think we're all conditioned into being pretty housewives which is just sad :/
    Is that all you've absorbed from your 'gender studies'? Do you really feel oppressed right now? I don't.
    I don't feel oppressed, I've never related my experiences into my discussion since I'm not generalising by using what I've seen in my life. I mainly base my discussions/debates on statistics and other things.

    Nothing is stopping me from being a CEO, apart from a bias that people tend to employ men no matter if there is equal merit just because of internalised sexism. You can look this up, it's true.

    I used my example of intersex children, how parents see genitals and immediately raise a child by dressing them in specific ways etc, when they ignore their internal sexual organs. Children who look 'normal' don't tend to get tested for their actual sex (chromosones and hormone levels). They are true examples of nature vs nurture. Just because they don't happen to be born frequently, doesn't mean they aren't an example of how constructed gender is.

    As for personal experiences, both my parents (in particular my dad) have battered me for saying I never want to have children. My dad calls me abnormal (like a gay person, apparently) because it's a woman's role in life to breed. I'm a strong advocate of sustainability and I don't believe the human population should be added to by every single woman possible. Besides the point, I also feel very repulsed by the idea etc.

    He has serious internalised sexism and believes a woman and man should act a certain way and do specific roles such as child bearing etc.

    And no, I never said all my life choices, such as my degree is based on my gender. I'm multilingual so I do English, but realise I want to go into a science information sector actually.

    I don't blame gender upbringing for my choices. But if you want to believe that women and men have personality traits based on a penis and a vagina then whatever makes you sleep better at night. Proof is out there that it's not true. As I've mentioned above.

    I don't want to attack you or argue with you. I don't have time to send endless links on feminism and gender gaps. You have to research yourself before coming to a conclusion.

    All the best.

    And to the OP, **** gender constructs, life is too short to dwell on this or that.
 
 
 
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