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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Whereas most people have ambiguities about abortion, so that far into copulation/conception somewhere on the scale is where most people say, the interference of nature's course is wrong. Most people are somewhere into the early stages of conception here or whatever the abortion term limit is. But, whilst I am not like that ultra-conservative American woman who thinks masturbation is wrong and should be illegal, (for me this is insanity), I do find something morally distasteful about a society that believes in endless contraceptive sex, bearing no apparent connection to reproduction, being a 'right', and 'key part of life', a 'healthy sex life' etc etc. Gratification not security, rootedness or happiness springs to mind. I think it's interfering with nature and that there is something dishonest about the sex act that goes that far, is done for social kudos and approval, and yet contains the barrier that basically says 'I don't want your child or your genes to mix with mine'. If I want to gratify myself sexually, I can use fantasies and masturbation. This has nothing to do with stopping nature, in the same way homosexual activity does not. I am nowhere near the woman, so I am not stopping nature wheh I ejaculate. One thing I've not mentioned yet is how empty and futile contraceptive sex makes me feel anyway, just another thing bound to break up and no unity. It is less pleasurable than ******* and all about ego. It gives existential angst and a sense of drifting if you don't risk a kid and have it natural. It's very strange to dwell in a world where I am more morally and socially conservative than my parents, they'd have been more keen on me to have these contraceptive relationships, along with doctors etc, than I am. Even to smoke marijuana. I wish authority was not like this. I hate the vanity and futility of it. The logical conclusion of the wisdom around me is just to do it endlessly with no resolution, if I am already to deny that many babies. If that is the way fine, but I would take it all the way. If you already should have lots of sex and prevent reproduction, why have a child at all? The only reason left is some lame crap about not dying without them to look after you, and not because you actually have a moral problem with contraception. Basically, I want to know if anyone feels the same, if they can empathise with my thought process, am I missing out, what is your feelings on this paragraph and what advice do you have for me?
    How do you feel morally about unnecesarily bringing a baby into a life of suffering, abuse and poverty, without love?
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    (Original post by Romulus Augustus)
    Oh ya there are alternatives. but with pills you have to maybe hide them so your parents don't find out.
    Yeah true. Plus the implant leaves a wicked bruise for the first week after it's fitted/removed, although it's easily hideable. The point is, there are alternatives so condoms don't have to be used (it's much nicer without)
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    (Original post by Little Popcorns)
    Come back when you've got 12 children then we'll see how morally wrong you think it is
    Being on benefits is morally wrong?
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    I use contraceptives as I don't want to be bringing a child into the world where I am still at Uni and not financially stable. I have mental health problems too and struggle to take care of myself, let alone a child.

    I am sure there are other people who feel the same though
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    (Original post by Dalek1099)
    Yeh I do have similar feelings but you have forgotten about the risk of STIs with non-safe sex thats probably the main reason to use contraception.A lot of it has to do with our own selfishness I think a lot of people do want children but they can't look after them now(they may be in college or university and don't want to risk having their exams ruined and not being able to revise because they have a baby to look after) but they also find the opposite sex so attractive.

    Generally contraception is tolerated as a sort of compromise in that it gives people a bit of a choice about whether they want a baby or not and helps stop excess abortion.

    I think there is also the problem that if you got rid of contraception then the population would grow out of control as people keep on having lots of sex, we could certainly maintain more people(if resources were shared fairly) but I don't think we could maintain the birth rates of China(before one child policy) all across the world, which is what we would have if we didn't have contraception(we have been given strong instincts to have sex because infant mortality use to be very high and is still high in some poor countries and thus we needed to produce lots of children but now there is good medical care so hardly any infants die).

    It is a very difficult issue and its something which has always been troubling me for many years(I certainly use to be strongly against contraception) but now I am not so sure.I am just concerned that if I had contraceptive sex then I would know that I could have stopped a baby being born but I know full well the consequences of not using contraception(STIs,baby etc) and the effect bringing up a baby would have on someone's life.I think is generally why a lot of people believe in delaying sex until you have a long relationship with someone or married but the problem is sexual attraction is so strong.Its not as if I am going to have the chance to have sex anyway but I doubt I would be able resist the advances of a hot girl.

    I generally accept abortion as wrong as if nature has produced the baby then you are interfering with nature and stopping someone being born for your own selfish needs(at least with contraception there is only a small chance per each time you have sex a foetus would be made).I understand where you are coming from with nature, I am a bit of a pantheist I think of nature/universe as kind of an equivalent to God its what made us.
    What happened to sexual restraint, people used to wait 'til marriage, not advocating that precisely but there is masturbation. A lot of the problem is that society always believes in 'rights', and 'entitlements', and believes in gratification. It also, through advertising, not to mention social media etc, continually sells people insecurity, what they are supposed to be 'getting', rather than a society where people cultivated themselves more and thought more. Again, it's gratification and having what other people have endlessly, in some detached way, emotionally detached and detached from the natural act of risking a child. And like I say, I have no aversion to sex, it's the vulgarity of conquest and contraceptive sex, and it having to be advertised, done in futility and cold and calculated, with a woman that doesn't want my genes, the pressure I am under, even if I am having it and don't want to be some **** bragging, that everyone must know, I must deliver this situation to authority and my parent so I can not be stigmatized as weird or tragic. On the contrary, without a condom it feels like instinct, beautiful and natural somehow. I probably do want a kid deep down, at least the stigmatizers then have evidence of virility or sex, and it wasn't meaningless. Then I can just get on withh my life not having to be seen to have XY and Z.
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    (Original post by Romulus Augustus)
    The think is if you don't use a condom then it will literally change your entire life. While using condom does not give the same pleasure sex is still enjoyable.
    And maybe if condoms weren't around, as in the past, because of that sex took on more significance, and was thought about seriously. It wasn't something to be insecure about and show the world you were having endlessly with no kid, act desperately to prove you were having. This wasn't a bad thing, yes some modern development is good but in other ways people were happier in the past.

    This part is to many replies, more general-
    I have been anguished about whether to have sex with no condom, that I was all but offered, but that was different-the attraction was huge, the compatibility was like it was screaming fertility-that's a dilemma between great sex with someone you think the world of, and you know you'd want it naturally with-it's just comes down to whether you want to take the plunge and (not necessarily have) but risk a kid. When it's social kudos sex, to do with stigmatizing, and pleasing authority, and I have to produce the contraceptive relationship to the world, which I know will end, I have only minimal dilemma-everyone does it , thinks I should and I'm nuts, I know it's a stupid pressure and is futile. And probably could be thought of as gay for it. It's pathetic.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    What happened to sexual restraint, people used to wait 'til marriage, not advocating that precisely but there is masturbation. A lot of the problem is that society always believes in 'rights', and 'entitlements', and believes in gratification. It also, through advertising, not to mention social media etc, continually sells people insecurity, what they are supposed to be 'getting', rather than a society where people cultivated themselves more and thought more. Again, it's gratification and having what other people have endlessly, in some detached way, emotionally detached and detached from the natural act of risking a child. And like I say, I have no aversion to sex, it's the vulgarity of conquest and contraceptive sex, and it having to be advertised, done in futility and cold and calculated, with a woman that doesn't want my genes, the pressure I am under, even if I am having it and don't want to be some **** bragging, that everyone must know, I must deliver this situation to authority and my parent so I can not be stigmatized as weird or tragic. On the contrary, without a condom it feels like instinct, beautiful and natural somehow. I probably do want a kid deep down, at least the stigmatizers then have evidence of virility or sex, and it wasn't meaningless. Then I can just get on withh my life not having to be seen to have XY and Z.

    So basically according to you it's immoral for me to ever have sex considering I don't ever want to conceive a child?

    I find that ridiculous, your reasoning isn't even logical and you've yet to form a sentence on the matter that even makes any sense.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    The interference of nature's course is wrong? So I hope that each time you're ill you won't be taking any medicine and if some point in the future you get cancer you won't be going in for chemotherapy.
    Ignoring the rather large point that one preserves life, the other denies it.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    -snip-
    Paragraphs mate, ****ing hell.
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    (Original post by SophieSmall)
    you clearly just have hang ups about the act of sex not resulting in a child itself.
    There is that element. Stupid middle class and feminist wisdom-you can't become a Dad at the age when women your age's bodies are perfect for being mothers. You only can when the women your age's bodies are past it virtually, therefore forcing me into the situation of having to be a financially secure older man, who is slightly more behind in the latest, cultural references (if it's extreme age gap it makes you lame-o) etc-in short, not a dynamic I enjoy or have ever enjoyed but one I am forced into by stupid society.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    There is that element. Stupid middle class and feminist wisdom-you can't become a Dad at the age when women your age's bodies are perfect for being mothers. You only can when the women your age's bodies are past it virtually, therefore forcing me into the situation of having to be a financially secure older man, who is slightly more behind in the latest, cultural references (if it's extreme age gap it makes you lame-o) etc-in short, not a dynamic I enjoy or have ever enjoyed but one I am forced into by stupid society.
    Okay first of all that was painful to read, felt like rambling rather than formed sentences.

    Everything you're saying is just complete nonsense. Get a grip.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    Ignoring the rather large point that one preserves life, the other denies it.
    Doesn't matter, it's still interfering with nature's course, otherwise you're using double standards.
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    (Original post by driftawaay)
    LMAO

    I cant believe people are falling for this troll thread
    I've written a massive, convoluted explanation, it says more about you that you think I would have time or energy to bother with it being trolling. Oh by the way, all the people who are really patronising and reckon i'm talking crap about a black girl, are invariably smug white women, who could not know about the sex, obviously, as they will never penetrate a black woman, and simply smugly assume it a crackpot theory that anyone, anywhere could challenge their supremacy in all realms.
    I have that experience and I know how different it is.
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    (Original post by SophieSmall)
    Okay first of all that was painful to read, felt like rambling rather than formed sentences.
    Secondly my decisions are not forcing you to do anything. I am clear and honest that I don't want children ever when I start a relationship, if the man does want children then the relationship is over so no one is forced to compromise on such a big life decision.
    Everything you're saying is just complete nonsense. Get a grip.
    So you're a Darwinian failure?
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    (Original post by multiratiunculae)
    So you're a Darwinian failure?
    I don't really care what you call it, I'm living my life for me and the people I love. I'm not about to have a child just because some bloke said anyone who doesn't failed at life. I'd be miserable as a mother so why the **** would I be one?
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    (Original post by SophieSmall)
    I don't really care what you call it, I'm living my life for me and the people I love. I'm not about to have a child just because some bloke said anyone who doesn't failed at life. I'd be miserable as a mother so why the **** would I be one?
    Selfish too.
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    (Original post by multiratiunculae)
    Selfish too.
    conveniently ignoring the "and people I love" part. Strong intelligence.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Whereas most people have ambiguities about abortion, so that far into copulation/conception somewhere on the scale is where most people say, the interference of nature's course is wrong. Most people are somewhere into the early stages of conception here or whatever the abortion term limit is. But, whilst I am not like that ultra-conservative American woman who thinks masturbation is wrong and should be illegal, (for me this is insanity), I do find something morally distasteful about a society that believes in endless contraceptive sex, bearing no apparent connection to reproduction, being a 'right', and 'key part of life', a 'healthy sex life' etc etc. Gratification not security, rootedness or happiness springs to mind. I think it's interfering with nature and that there is something dishonest about the sex act that goes that far, is done for social kudos and approval, and yet contains the barrier that basically says 'I don't want your child or your genes to mix with mine'. If I want to gratify myself sexually, I can use fantasies and masturbation. This has nothing to do with stopping nature, in the same way homosexual activity does not. I am nowhere near the woman, so I am not stopping nature wheh I ejaculate. One thing I've not mentioned yet is how empty and futile contraceptive sex makes me feel anyway, just another thing bound to break up and no unity. It is less pleasurable than ******* and all about ego. It gives existential angst and a sense of drifting if you don't risk a kid and have it natural. It's very strange to dwell in a world where I am more morally and socially conservative than my parents, they'd have been more keen on me to have these contraceptive relationships, along with doctors etc, than I am. Even to smoke marijuana. I wish authority was not like this. I hate the vanity and futility of it. The logical conclusion of the wisdom around me is just to do it endlessly with no resolution, if I am already to deny that many babies. If that is the way fine, but I would take it all the way. If you already should have lots of sex and prevent reproduction, why have a child at all? The only reason left is some lame crap about not dying without them to look after you, and not because you actually have a moral problem with contraception. Basically, I want to know if anyone feels the same, if they can empathise with my thought process, am I missing out, what is your feelings on this paragraph and what advice do you have for me?
    ffs write in paragraphs. Aint nobdy got time for that big block of text.

    Anyway, I just came in to say, if you dont feel contraception is morally right, just try having a kid and I guarantee you definitely wont be thinking that's "more right".
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    (Original post by SophieSmall)
    conveniently ignoring the "and people I love" part. Strong intelligence.
    ahh you'll mature in due course

    get back to me when you're pregnant.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Doesn't matter, it's still interfering with nature's course, otherwise you're using double standards.
    I'm not using double standards, I'm talking about interfering with nature specifically to deny life- why should you get to frame the terms of the debate which you attribute to me falsely, as though I set them out.?

    That's rubbish anyway. I could apply the exact same argument you are applying to me to insist that you must always believe in interfering with natures course, when there is a discernible choice, in order to be logically consistent.
 
 
 
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