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    (Original post by Kartace)
    One of the worst things is the increasing realisation that I'm not statistically going to be sued at least 6 times during my career and that every injury claim lawyer now looks at me with Pound signs in their eyes...we are now the most sued profession in the world and it's worse here than in the US even. The GDC (our governing body) don't help either, with their cavalier attitude to disiplinary hearings and seeming contempt for dentists.
    Isn't there a dental equivalent of the British Medical Association (BMA)? My mother's a doctor and, in exchange for her hefty membership fee, she gets quite a few perks in the litigation department, including free legal advice and support and all that fancy jazz. Maybe you should start one if there isn't?
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    Do you always think about teeth? Do you dream of it?
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    (Original post by urteeththo)
    Wow, its seems hard enough focussing without that especially still being a student. :L
    I didnt know people did that to dentists :O, the consultant cardiologist said he lost a case (and 30,000 pounds!) when he was sued for a misdiagnosis ,i can understand that this would happen because the risk to the patients life, i didnt think this could be the case in dentistry, what do they sue for?
    Perhaps you can change the way that the GDC deal with this, maybe starting a petition or writing a letter before you find yourself helpless in that situation?

    I can imagine! At least it gives you a project haha, where do you start with such a horrible mouth? & how do you hint to a patient to start brushing their teeth without coming across as rude?
    Yeah it's not ideal...you're protected from the worst of it by the NHS whilst you're in dental school as an undergrad, but it's still tricky.

    I thought it was fairly common knowledge that dentists got sued a lot. 30,000 is a pretty average amount to be sued really. Patients can and will sue for just about anything. The big ones are things like tooth loss follow failure to diagnose periodontitis, pain resulting from a failed dental procedure, inappropriate prescribing of antibiotics and poor fitting crowns, implants...sometimes it can be just if they don't like the dentist...one case was "the dentists beard was in my face during treatment" - the GDC have a very poor filter for malpractice hearings.

    As for changing the way the GDC run things ...this is all very much underway, they've been dragged up in front of a parliamentary select committee and deemed unfit for purpose, but they are allowed to continue because without them we have no regulation. To give an example of how bad things are.,..this time last year they arbitrarily raised our registration fee by over 60% without any consultation at all. We pay over twice as much as doctors do to be registered and the GDC is the most expensive governing healthcare body to register with. (I could go on bout the GDC all day!)

    The BDA are really fighting our case but the GDC unfortunately have the department of health and jeremy hunt on their side.

    As for how you tackle a mouth like that...you would first make sure you address any pain as an emergency, then you clean everything up and really go in hard with oral hygiene instructions. Sometimes you have to tread a balancing act between being tactful and firm. Different things work for different patients. Most of the time, once you've made a patient realise that all of their teeth will fall out if they don't start doing something they're more inclined to comply with you. After everything is cleaned up, you would then go in and treat the dental disease and provide any restorations that are needed.
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    (Original post by kkboyk)
    Do you always think about teeth? Do you dream of it?
    haha...no not always, although i do find that i notice them a lot more in people i see. I have had teeth dreams before...usually they consist of mine falling out or something, it's terrifying and not something i really enjoy! :s
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Isn't there a dental equivalent of the British Medical Association (BMA)? My mother's a doctor and, in exchange for her hefty membership fee, she gets quite a few perks in the litigation department, including free legal advice and support and all that fancy jazz. Maybe you should start one if there isn't?
    Hey there, you're right we do have the BDA and they provide some support but it's much more likely that we'd go to one of our indemnity organisations... someone like dental protection or the dental defence union etc. They're first line solution is "apologise and give the money back" (even if you're in the right) with any luck...most patient will drop it at this stage.
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    The NHS pays for the 5th year tuition, doesn't it? Does that mean you are in any sort of contract to work for them after you graduate for a certain period of time, or not? I know it's very unlikely to go straight into private, but wondering anyway.
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    (Original post by MAnnaMM)
    Sheffield. This was my least favourite open day, although not because of the dental school but more of the feel of the place in general. Of course, if I manage to get an offer for it I'd still be over the moon anyway I'd say my fave was Newcastle, and Birmingham and Plymouth are a joint second place.
    Did you have any interviews at any of these 4?
    I'm afraid not...i didn't apply to any of those, they didn't really appeal to me when i was applying!
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    (Original post by Kartace)
    I'm afraid not...i didn't apply to any of those, they didn't really appeal to me when i was applying!
    Haha, fair enough!
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    (Original post by MAnnaMM)
    The NHS pays for the 5th year tuition, doesn't it? Does that mean you are in any sort of contract to work for them after you graduate for a certain period of time, or not? I know it's very unlikely to go straight into private, but wondering anyway.
    Yep that's right...they provide us a bursary towards the fees. The simple answer is no, we don't have to work for the NHS. However, nearly everyone decides to do DF1 which is the same as junior doctor training. This is a year in NHS general practice and you have to do this if you want to ever work in the NHS. You can go straight into private practice...this seems a little bit like career suicide to me though.
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    (Original post by Kartace)
    Yeah it's not ideal...you're protected from the worst of it by the NHS whilst you're in dental school as an undergrad, but it's still tricky.

    I thought it was fairly common knowledge that dentists got sued a lot. 30,000 is a pretty average amount to be sued really. Patients can and will sue for just about anything. The big ones are things like tooth loss follow failure to diagnose periodontitis, pain resulting from a failed dental procedure, inappropriate prescribing of antibiotics and poor fitting crowns, implants...sometimes it can be just if they don't like the dentist...one case was "the dentists beard was in my face during treatment" - the GDC have a very poor filter for malpractice hearings.

    As for changing the way the GDC run things ...this is all very much underway, they've been dragged up in front of a parliamentary select committee and deemed unfit for purpose, but they are allowed to continue because without them we have no regulation. To give an example of how bad things are.,..this time last year they arbitrarily raised our registration fee by over 60% without any consultation at all. We pay over twice as much as doctors do to be registered and the GDC is the most expensive governing healthcare body to register with. (I could go on bout the GDC all day!)

    The BDA are really fighting our case but the GDC unfortunately have the department of health and jeremy hunt on their side.

    As for how you tackle a mouth like that...you would first make sure you address any pain as an emergency, then you clean everything up and really go in hard with oral hygiene instructions. Sometimes you have to tread a balancing act between being tactful and firm. Different things work for different patients. Most of the time, once you've made a patient realise that all of their teeth will fall out if they don't start doing something they're more inclined to comply with you. After everything is cleaned up, you would then go in and treat the dental disease and provide any restorations that are needed.
    Thats horrible!
    dont get me started on jeremy hunt -_- just goes to show how much politics is in control of everything...

    interesting...what about those that cannot afford what is needed to ensure that their teeth are restored? or those that dont comply? surely that must be annoying for a dentist.

    im doing my Extended Project on comparing oral hygiene around the world. do you happen to know anything about miswak,khat and oil pulling and their effect on teeth/general oral hygiene?
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    (Original post by Kartace)
    Yep that's right...they provide us a bursary towards the fees. The simple answer is no, we don't have to work for the NHS. However, nearly everyone decides to do DF1 which is the same as junior doctor training. This is a year in NHS general practice and you have to do this if you want to ever work in the NHS. You can go straight into private practice...this seems a little bit like career suicide to me though.
    Okay, thanks
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    (Original post by urteeththo)
    Thats horrible!
    dont get me started on jeremy hunt -_- just goes to show how much politics is in control of everything...

    interesting...what about those that cannot afford what is needed to ensure that their teeth are restored? or those that dont comply? surely that must be annoying for a dentist.

    im doing my Extended Project on comparing oral hygiene around the world. do you happen to know anything about miswak,khat and oil pulling and their effect on teeth/general oral hygiene?
    So those people who can't afford it are usually on some form of benefit and so they are often exempt from NHS charges, severe cases can be referred into a dental hospital where the treatment is all free. As for those who don't comply...yes it is annoying, but it's our job to try and change attitudes not just drill and fill.

    As for oral hygiene around the world, that's an interesting topic. I know that Khat, pann and various forms of smokeless and chewing tobacco are a big risk for oral cancer and submucous fibrosis etc.

    As for oil pulling i can't say i actually know much about it!
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    (Original post by Kartace)
    haha...no not always, although i do find that i notice them a lot more in people i see. I have had teeth dreams before...usually they consist of mine falling out or something, it's terrifying and not something i really enjoy! :s

    I used to have them when i was a kid :P so weird, i used to wake up crying ahaha
    apparently its a really common dream to have
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    How competent are student dentists at doing composite fillings on back teeth?
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    (Original post by _icecream)
    How competent are student dentists at doing composite fillings on back teeth?
    Bit of a difficult question to answer to be honest, there are so many variables!

    It depends which year the student is in...i would expect a 5th year to be more proficient than say a 2nd year for example. It also depends on the type of filling...some very big cavities can be very difficult to restore and this can add another dimension of difficulty to things, especially if the gums are also bleeding or the decay extends below the gum line.

    It's also likely to vary between universities and individual students etc. What i will say is that none of my posterior composites have falled or fallen out during the two years i've been practicing. Students have to undergo a large amount of practice both practically and theoretically on plastic teeth in the lab before they're even let anywhere near a patient. The ultimate responsibility also rests with the tutor in charge who will check all of the work the dental student is carrying out.
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    (Original post by Kartace)
    As the title says - ask anything you like!
    How is life like post graduation ?. I know Dental grads have to do something similar to medics, I think it's called VT. Is it easy to get a well paid job straight after your VT ?

    You say your a 4th year student, so have you thought about what you'd possibly like to do after graduation. e.g Specialise in Endodontics,Periodontics,prostho dontics, ortho, Maxfax etc.... or perhaps run your own dental practice. What's your aspiration ?

    What is your timetable like. e.g Is it a 9-5 course full of lectures or is it very much hands on and how early on the course do you start practicing on real patients.

    Was money a major factor when deciding whether to do dentistry (be honest).

    My friend is a dentist and we had an interesting discussion about eachothers courses, so I'm just curious
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    (Original post by futuremedic19)
    How is life like post graduation ?. I know Dental grads have to do something similar to medics, I think it's called VT. Is it easy to get a well paid job straight after your VT ?

    You say your a 4th year student, so have you thought about what you'd possibly like to do after graduation. e.g Specialise in Endodontics,Periodontics,prostho dontics, ortho, Maxfax etc.... or perhaps run your own dental practice.

    What is your timetable like. e.g Is it a 9-5 course full of lectures or is it very much hands on and how early on the course do you start practicing on real patients.

    Was money a major factor when deciding whether to do dentistry (be honest).

    My friend is a dentist and we had an interesting discussion about eachothers courses, so I'm just curious
    Hey there, we have what's called DF1 (dental foundation 1) which is immediately post graduation. After this there are a few different careers paths open. You can stay in general practice, then specialise a few years later (or not), you can go back to hospital and start DCT1,2,3 which are hospital rotations in restorative, paeds, oral/maxfax etc.

    Personally i always wanted to be a maxfax surgeon, however things are changing a but now and i'm thinking that perhaps i'd like to specialise in restorative or something. I'm not 100% on whether or not i want to own my own practice yet, i'm not sure if the stress is worth it or not.

    In first year it's 9-5 lectures which are more or less identical to the medics, all basic sciences and anatomy etc. usually around 5/6 lectures 5 days a week.

    2nd year is different, lectures about 2 days a week with much more emphasis on pathology and disease. We start in the labs and seeing patients in this year.

    3rd year is lectures one day a week with much more emphasis on learning the science and art of dentistry, you see many more patients.

    4th year the focus is mainly on patients, we have one morning a week of lectures and the rest is clinics and labs

    5th year is much the same as 4th year but with more patients and higher expectations.

    In terms of the time needed...i'm very very busy, this week just gone...i was in by 8am every day and didn't leave before 6pm each night. Tuesday i had to work through lunch. When you have patients, your responsibilities are much more pressing and you have to grow up into a clinician very quickly, i feel like medics don't really appreciate this sometimes.

    Money was an aspect yes, as it is with ANY job. Money is basically the only reason that anyone works, we need money to live. I always find it really weird when people ask if i only did dentistry for the money, i sortof feel like saying.. do you ask the person who serves in the supermarket why they took that job etc. It feels like sometimes in healthcare that we should be ashamed of being paid well because we provide a health service and the perception in this country is that because healthcare should be free that people should not make good sums of money from it.

    When people say did you only do dentistry for the money, it feels like what they are really saying is. "there is no reason to study dentistry other than the money" and "you earn lots of money and i don't think that the job you perform deserves it" for example, people never say the same sort of thing to doctors for some reason, even though we train for the same amount of time and share a lot of common ground.

    I also happen to really enjoy dentistry and find it a really exceptionally fulfilling career that appeals to me on a number of levels, emotionally, creatively and financially. I would still study dentistry even if it were an average pay.

    EDIT: I'm aware parts of this sound quite ranty, but on behalf of all dental students i wanted to address in a public forum something that i've been asked/accused of a fair few times.
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    (Original post by Kartace)
    Bit of a difficult question to answer to be honest, there are so many variables!

    It depends which year the student is in...i would expect a 5th year to be more proficient than say a 2nd year for example. It also depends on the type of filling...some very big cavities can be very difficult to restore and this can add another dimension of difficulty to things, especially if the gums are also bleeding or the decay extends below the gum line.

    It's also likely to vary between universities and individual students etc. What i will say is that none of my posterior composites have falled or fallen out during the two years i've been practicing. Students have to undergo a large amount of practice both practically and theoretically on plastic teeth in the lab before they're even let anywhere near a patient. The ultimate responsibility also rests with the tutor in charge who will check all of the work the dental student is carrying out.
    I heard that white fillings lasts for 5 years, does that mean more tooth structure has to be removed so that the new filling material is placed on the tooth
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    (Original post by _icecream)
    I heard that white fillings lasts for 5 years, does that mean more tooth structure has to be removed so that the new filling material is placed on the tooth
    Five years seems reasonable, some will obviously last longer and some shorter. Once you remove a filling it's basically inevitable that more tooth tissue will need to be removed with it though yes.

    We have this concept known as the restorative cycle...as soon as you cut into a tooth, you've started the cycle and the ultimate end it the extraction of the tooth. How long this takes depends on lots of factors such as oral hygiene, restoration quality and luck.
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    Hey not a dental student just saw your post wanted to ask you what's your best advice for healthy teeth ?? 😃
 
 
 
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