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B879 - Capital Punishment Bill 2015 watch

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Ah, was waiting for somebody to play the "I do not know the definition of murder" card. Why is it wrong to murder criminals but not to enslave them, or steal from them?

    I would also say the argument "the EU says no and we voted to stay" a very poor argument, there are a lot of things that the EU say that the general populace would disagree with, they voted to support the overall package, they did not vote support for each individual thing.




    So you want our most violent criminals to remain on the streets?
    I didn't say that. They should be imprisoned but worked with and helped to intergrate back into society.

    Maybe not the most extreme crimes, but yeah.

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    I'm gonna think about this - actually no, no I'm not.

    Nay.
    Just nay.

    Birmingham Six, Guildford Four, Maguire Seven anyone?

    I'm going to link my favourite journalist on this one:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DrsVhzbLzU
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Yeah......No.Posted from TSR Mobile
    Lol that literally made me laugh out loud
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Ah, was waiting for somebody to play the "I do not know the definition of murder" card. Why is it wrong to murder criminals but not to enslave them, or steal from them?

    I would also say the argument "the EU says no and we voted to stay" a very poor argument, there are a lot of things that the EU say that the general populace would disagree with, they voted to support the overall package, they did not vote support for each individual thing.




    So you want our most violent criminals to remain on the streets?
    In my opinion it is wrong to do that, and it can only be justified where there's truly no alternative. Even then, it should not be "enslavement", it should be working with them on the issues that have caused them to act violently and criminally and helping to re-habilitate them into society. And we should not deprive them of their property once released, nor deny them all that they need for a comfortable enough existence during their sentences.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    I didn't say that. They should be imprisoned but worked with and helped to intergrate back into society.

    Maybe not the most extreme crimes, but yeah.

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    I come back to my original question then, does this mean that the only "wrong" penalty is execution? If not, then it is still a case of "two wrongs" and you advocate no justice system. Whilst that is very liberal, it is also rather anarchist.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Citation? You also have a single case, how many executions are there in the US each year?
    Off the top of my head I believe only a few, and federal prisoners sentenced to death row are killed even less frequently than state sanctioned death penalties.

    Also while I am a strong nay to this, any reason why rape wasn't included?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Citation? You also have a single case, how many executions are there in the US each year?
    I'll try and find it tomorrow.

    One case is enough of a reason to say no to it. I've no idea how many there are in the US each year.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I come back to my original question then, does this mean that the only "wrong" penalty is execution? If not, then it is still a case of "two wrongs" and you advocate no justice system. Whilst that is very liberal, it is also rather anarchist.
    The extreme crimes, like Murder should be both punished and have rehabilitation. But I think Murdering murderers is
    1) Hypocritical
    2) Not justice at all

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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    In my opinion it is wrong to do that, and it can only be justified where there's truly no alternative. Even then, it should not be "enslavement", it should be working with them on the issues that have caused them to act violently and criminally and helping to re-habilitate them into society. And we should not deprive them of their property once released, nor deny them all that they need for a comfortable enough existence during their sentences.
    I reiterate my point made to Petros, what you're doing is saying that it is wrong to do something but we should do it anyway, surely then, you have just conceded the moral high ground that you tried to take; what you're saying is that it is wrong to break one of the ten commandments (thou shalt not kill"), but is perfectly fine to break another ("thou shalt not steal") and also perfectly fine to enslave people?
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    Christ almighty no. Why on earth should those convicted of heinous crimes such as murder be given the easy way out? I realise this is an unusual stance for a leftie to take, and I am normally in favour of rehabilitative justice, but if you've deliberately killed another human being, you should be made to spend the rest of your days sitting in a cold, damp jail cell all day with no luxuries, little contact with the outside world and one small, bland meal a day - in other words, being made to seriously regret what you did. Not dead and unable to suffer the consequences of your actions.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    The extreme crimes, like Murder should be both punished and have rehabilitation. But I think Murdering murderers is
    1) Hypocritical
    2) Not justice at all

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    Oh, so you can't remember the definition of murder either? I thought you were more intelligent than that.


    (Original post by nebelbon)
    I'll try and find it tomorrow.

    One case is enough of a reason to say no to it. I've no idea how many there are in the US each year.
    Then one case of false imprisonment, especially if only proven to be false post mortem, is surely enough to oppose imprisonment.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Oh, so you can't remember the definition of murder either? I thought you were more intelligent than that.




    Then one case of false imprisonment, especially if only proven to be false post mortem, is surely enough to oppose imprisonment.
    Fine fine. Ending the life of Murderers. Better?

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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Christ almighty no. Why on earth should those convicted of heinous crimes such as murder be given the easy way out? I realise this is an unusual stance for a leftie to take, and I am normally in favour of rehabilitative justice, but if you've deliberately killed another human being, you should be made to spend the rest of your days sitting in a cold, damp jail cell all day with no luxuries, little contact with the outside world and one small, bland meal a day - in other words, being made to seriously regret what you did. Not dead and unable to suffer the consequences of your action.
    Which breaches how many human "rights" people keep shouting about (despite not fundamentally existing according to a majority of the British populace)?
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Fine fine. Ending the life of Murderers. Better?

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    How is it hypocritical and non justice?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I reiterate my point made to Petros, what you're doing is saying that it is wrong to do something but we should do it anyway, surely then, you have just conceded the moral high ground that you tried to take; what you're saying is that it is wrong to break one of the ten commandments (thou shalt not kill"), but is perfectly fine to break another ("thou shalt not steal") and also perfectly fine to enslave people?
    We should do it only if there's no alternative. There's never, ever a situation where criminal justice mandates that someone must be killed. And I don't see why our moral values should come from the Bible either.
    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Christ almighty no. Why on earth should those convicted of heinous crimes such as murder be given the easy way out? I realise this is an unusual stance for a leftie to take, and I am normally in favour of rehabilitative justice, but if you've deliberately killed another human being, you should be made to spend the rest of your days sitting in a cold, damp jail cell all day with no luxuries, little contact with the outside world and one small, bland meal a day - in other words, being made to seriously regret what you did. Not dead and unable to suffer the consequences of your action.
    Nobody deserves that treatment. The way to bring about humane behaviour is to show our own humanity, forgiveness and compassion even when it's most difficult, not to revert to our worse and more animalistic instincts to punish and cause suffering.
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    I also have an issue with pedophila being a capital offence in this bill. Pedophila is the attraction towards pre-pubescent children and crimes involving it can be the possession of child porn or even sexually explicit cartoons of characters who are ment to be children. While child rape i could understand (although still not support) and I don't think that people helping the child porn industry should be let off (but certainly not killed!!!), I don't think that people possessing said cartoons should be criminalised for trying to manage their psychological condition in a safe way and certainly not in teh way that this bill sets out.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    We should do it only if there's no alternative. There's never, ever a situation where criminal justice mandates that someone must be killed. And I don't see why our moral values should come from the Bible either.


    Nobody deserves that treatment. The way to bring about humane behaviour is to show our own humanity, forgiveness and compassion even when it's most difficult, not to revert to our worse and more animalistic instincts to punish and cause suffering.
    So we should only do it when there is no alternative, eh? So we should never do it. Well, already managed to find 2 people who don't believe in a justice system.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    I also have an issue with pedophila being a capital offence in this bill. Pedophila is the attraction towards pre-pubescent children and crimes involving it can be the possession of child porn or even sexually explicit cartoons of characters who are ment to be children. While child rape i could understand (although still not support) and I don't think that people helping the child porn industry should be let off (but certainly not killed!!!), I don't think that people possessing said cartoons should be criminalised for trying to manage their psychological condition in a safe way and certainly not in teh way that this bill sets out.
    People are now pre-pubescent until they are no longer a minor, interesting shift in definition there.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    How is it hypocritical and non justice?
    It's hypocritical as you're making the point that ending someone elses life is bad by ending someones life.

    It is non justice as for many, death isn't punishment. It's just the end.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So we should only do it when there is no alternative, eh? So we should never do it. Well, already managed to find 2 people who don't believe in a justice system.
    Since you're being pedantic, where the only alternative is an extremely strong risk of serious harm coming to others. There is no risk of that happening in a properly managed penal system, and thus it is always preferable to the death penalty.
 
 
 
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