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Why aren't people angry at the economic migrants watch

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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    There does exist a subtle difference between maintaining the current system so that it benefits you only (whilst you stop others (read: foreigners) from leeching from it) and reforming the system so that it benefits neither you or them.

    The latter has some semblance of equality whilst the former is simply greed.


    The issue is not whether or not people will want free stuff but whether keeping the status quo system of benefits but denying foreigners is an active form of discrimination against people who simply had the misfortune of being born in a land where there was no system.
    So you think we should let all migrants into the country?
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    If these refugees are making the journey here to start a new beginning, then I wholeheartedly welcome them.

    If they are making the journey here to exploit the system, then I would consider reforming the system so that it is more stringent and applies equally to all.

    If you want the argument to be framed in another manner, then one can easily argue (as you seem to have done) that these refugees are more deserving of the benefits system because they have made a concious effort to attain something whilst the native Brits have simply sat on their arses, waiting for their next hand-out.

    If you want to frame the argument in such terms, you are free to do so but just remember, it won't fly.
    What do you mean exploit the system? The system is a wealthfare one. NHS, Education, housing. If you want to get rid of this a and privatise everything then sure invite as many as you want (Hint not many will come)

    Right so native brits sit on their arses and get handouts, thats why we are one of the richest countries in the world :rolleyes:

    Speaking of native brits you hate so dearly... They are one of biggest givers of charity and their wealth to genuine people in need in the entire world. Go figure

    I am just destroying your sad little angry bubble reply by reply and giving you healthy doses of rationality and reality.

    YOU STILL DIDNT ANSWER MY QUESTION ... WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER 5 BILLION PEOPLE IN THE WORLD LESS FORTUNATE THAN BRITS?
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    (Original post by RodgertheRabbit)
    I'm too blind to actually notice, the ad hominem doesn't help, and I also never said the system doesn't help those demographics. So that's a straw man argument.

    The system is undeniably being abused by people who aren't refugees, and the reason many refugees are homeless and starving in neighbouring Syrian countries is preciously because our resources are being monopolised by these economic migrants, when the resources would be better spent housing and feeding the actual refugees in neighbouring countries of Syria.

    You have nothing but an emotive argument, with misrepresentations of other peoples argument to make yours seem better by comparison. Coupled with a false narrative of reality; staving people do not own android phones and pay people smugglers thousands of pounds then traverse the width of Europe carrying their belongings on their backs. These are not the actions of people suffering from starvation.

    Starving people generally die in this world, which is the cold reality, and the resources meant to save them are being consumed by young well fed men who have picked up and moved to Europe claiming to be refugees.

    You can see how someone might see your post as disingenuous, bordering on an outright lie
    It really annoys me when people talk about the economic migrants as if there are millions of them.Of course there are some that are economic migrants using the system ; that's always going to be an issue. What I want to make clear is that these economic migrants are the significant minority and that what a lot of people do is lable people who are so obviously refugees as 'economic migrants' because they want to move to a rich country.
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    (Original post by RodgertheRabbit)
    Enlighten me on the relevance of your post, because I fail to see it.
    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    The Jews, whom the Nazi's (and some other European countries) were persecuting, fled from Germany and ended up in far flung places like the United States, Russia, Israel, the UK and Arabia.

    If the concept of a Refugee entails that he or she should simply travel to the nearest country and wait until their country is habitable and they are under no threat of persecution before they return, then there would not be any diaspora originating through the movement of refugees.

    Refugees (and indeed many people) want to better themselves as best they can and the way they think they can do that, is to emigrate or flee to a country which offers them the best prospect for doing so.

    To deny others the same benefit that you would derive for yourself, simply as a result of fortune having been born on a particular piece of land, is not only selfish, but one of the most despicable acts that a human could ever engage in.
    Pretty much this. Does the OP have something against the Jewish refugees who also went to the UK, instead of say neighbouring France and Spain (of which some did do) ?
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    I dont care how much they cost the country, if they are safe I am happy. If someone said to me that it would decrease my quality of life I would still welcome them with open arms because we would still have a better quality of life than they would if they went back to their home country.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    I have never claimed that we should "get rid of" the welfare state. My argument has simply been about making it fair to all, whether you are a Brit or a foreigner.
    So you think every single person in the world should be allowed the same access to the UK's welfare as the actual British people who work and pay for that net? Are you a troll?



    I
    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    don't think the ones that sit on their arses and get handouts actually contribute to the riches of this country. In fact, they deduct from the riches of this country.
    Great but whats that got to do with anything? You implied all brits do this and are less deserving than foreign people.


    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    I'm sure donating £5 from the £6,000 that you have received from the Government (free of charge, of course) is helping someone somewhere.
    Pretty hard to live on £500 a month in the UK so i would be more impressed by the generosity of that person than an average wage person giving £10 but its immaterial anyway not forgetting that the £6000 is STILL UK PEOPLES MONEY, not the governments. Oh an of course they will pay it all back with interest when they get a job lmfao



    So you say.



    What about them?[/QUOTE]

    Good game. If you don't want to engage honestly and properly and even try to address the flaws in your world view then we are done
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    Pretty much this. Does the OP have something against the Jewish refugees who also went to the UK, instead of say neighbouring France and Spain (of which some did do) ?
    But the Jewish refugees were not economic migrants, were they?
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    A massive generalisation
    Not untrue, if as you say, our border controls shouldn't be allowed to refuse anyone for any reason (i.e discriminate).
    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    but it seems that the ones that seem to cry the loudest about refugees coming for benefits, are the ones on some kind of benefits themselves.
    I don't see where you've got that from. I, personally, don't receive any benefits other than the normal stuff(NHS, free education etc). I think any taxpayer has the right to argue where his/hers money goes to.
    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    One does find the situation quite surreal.
    Does one find the situation quite surreal?
    Spoiler:
    Show
    Pretentious prick.
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    Discussing this... does anyone actually know of any stats on the subject? Otherwise this is a bit pointless, if based on no information or just stories.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    If they are present in this country and in need of some assistance from the State, then I don't see why not.



    I'm pretty sure that not all Brits are on benefits.



    If it is really the UK people who are giving their money, then what does it matter whether the foreigner (to whom you are giving to) is living in the UK or abroad?

    At the end of the day, it's still going to the foreigner.



    I simply cannot recall what your point was.
    I will try one last time.

    Do you think its moral to accept these Syrian economic migrants because they could afford the smugglers fee's and are able bodied whilst ignoring the hundreds of millions of people around the world who are in far greater danger and poverty? ("But they aren't making the journey") is not an acceptable answer

    If you do not want to discriminate against these people people who are in similar and much worse situations than the Syrian economic migrants, then that means the moral thing to do would be to bring the 4-5 billion people here aswell
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    I think those that have made the journey to the UK should be allowed to derive the benefits of the system of the country in which they are resident of.

    Does that answer your (quite ridiculous) question?
    Nope. On the fourth time of asking and you answer a question of which I did not ask. Thanks for playing champ. Real smart guy
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    (Original post by keromedic)
    But the Jewish refugees were not economic migrants, were they?
    The only people calling the Syrian refugees "economic migrants" are the far right. Every one else calls them "refugees" because well..they're fleeing for their lives

    Many in Syria were professionals, owned flashy villas, had a good standard of living etc... until they were forced out by either the gov't and/or IS

    If they truly were "economic migrants" then they'd have came before.
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    So OP how many Jewish refugees went to France and Spain instead of the UK? Were they also looking for money?
    You're actually comparing this lot to the Jews escaping the Holocaust

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    I don't blame them, Merkel has clearly welcomed them your anger shouldn't be directed at the refugees it should
    be directed at the EU for allowing this to happen.

    If I was in their situation and a country as safe and wealthy as Germany were willing to accept me as a refugee then clearly I will pack my clothes and trying my best to get there
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    You're actually comparing this lot to the Jews escaping the Holocaust

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    Theyre just the most recent. Fine then let's compare the refugees that fled European nations and headed to the UK, to escape Napoleon when there were safe countries in the way?

    What of the Jews who left poorer European lands and headed to Ottoman lands? Did they also go because the Ottomans were richer?
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    (Original post by RodgertheRabbit)
    Women and children first, actual refugees first.
    "Women and children first, actual refugees first" = Ethical
    "Every man for himself" = Survival
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    (Original post by _icecream)
    I don't blame them, Merkel has clearly welcomed them your anger shouldn't be directed at the refugees it should
    be directed at the EU for allowing this to happen.

    If I was in their situation and a country as safe and wealthy as Germany were willing to accept me as a refugee then clearly I will pack my clothes and trying my best to get there
    My anger isnt directed at refugees, as these people are not refugees. Merkel can call them refugees if she likes, so could 99% of europe. But unless we change the definition of the word THEY ARE NOT REFUGEES. Calling them that makes you look stupid.
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    Theyre just the most recent. Fine then let's compare the refugees that fled European nations and headed to the UK, to escape Napoleon when there were safe countries in the way?

    What of the Jews who left poorer European lands and headed to Ottoman lands? Did they also go because the Ottomans were richer?
    How about you stop trying to contrast it with other things and address this problem on its own merits, you should stop trying to provide backhanded apologetics, each of these events are unique situations.

    You have a no argument so decide to start talking about Jews and Napoleon and etc. etc. I doubt anyone is taking your babble seriously. Maybe if we leave you to ramble on, you will eventually come back to this topic and this situation.
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    (Original post by RodgertheRabbit)
    How about you stop trying to contrast it with other things and address this problem on its own merits, you should stop trying to provide backhanded apologetics, each of these events are unique situations.

    You have a no argument so decide to start talking about Jews and Napoleon and etc. etc. I doubt anyone is taking your babble seriously. Maybe if we leave you to ramble on, you will eventually come back to this topic and this situation.
    Why? I'm asking if people would say the same thing to those who have had to flee in the past and have fled to the richer UK or the richer Arab nations. Were they also "economic migrants" you don't like the fact that I am making these comparisons because it doesn't fit in with your idea that they're here in order to get a job (when quite a few had jobs and money)

    The UK has said it it giving priority to the most vulnerable ie: children

    Please tell me how these children are economic migrants?
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    BTW, do people have any thing against say...migrants from the north of England to the south of England for the SOLE intention of working darn sarth?

    Or say Welsh migrants to the south of England or say...Scottish migrants to the south of England.
 
 
 
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