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VM354 - Motion on the Chilcot Inquiry watch

  • View Poll Results: Do you agree with this motion?
    As many are of the opinion, Aye
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    On the contrary, No
    54.00%
    Abstain
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    Democracy takes time, It took the UK 100s of years to achieve democracy yet we still have an unelected head of state and an unelected chamber in our legislature. Bombing democracy into people was never going to work, lets be frank, it was stupid to go into Iraq the way that we did.
    No it was not. Iraq failed because we pulled out and let the people we were meant to depose join with islamists and stop the democracy from forming. Not to mention numerous countries pulling out of iraq too early.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    And what happened between the two points in time? Bush and Blair created a power vacuum

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    Look at the post above. Also are you completely fine with dictators gassing people?
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    Democracy takes time, It took the UK 100s of years to achieve democracy yet we still have an unelected head of state and an unelected chamber in our legislature. Bombing democracy into people was never going to work, lets be frank, it was stupid to go into Iraq the way that we did.
    Exactly democracy takes time and cannot be simply imposed on a tribal region of warlords, any attempt to do so instigates instability which naturally spreads throughout the region. The dictators and kings maintained stability and some still do, Western intervention disrupted that stability, the instability spread from Iraq and Afghanistan during the Arab spring, and has caused instability in Syria and Lybia, yet we did not learn from Iraq and Afghanistan and instead of backing the not particularly desirable dictators, who are despite that more desirable than the anarchy, chaos and terrorism that replace them, decided to back insurgents in Lybia and nobody in Syria.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    Look at the post above. Also are you completely fine with dictators gassing people?
    Yes, because that is preferable to the situation that replaces it.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Yes, because that is preferable to the situation that replaces it.
    If we had've done better it wouldn't be. But instead we were too weak and failed to crush the terrorists.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    If we had've done better it wouldn't be. But instead we were too weak and failed to crush the terrorists.
    I know your a leftie, but surely you are still capable of reading history books
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    (Original post by United1892)
    If we had've done better it wouldn't be. But instead we were too weak and failed to crush the terrorists.
    The terrorists that wouldn't have been such a nuisance had we not gone into Iraq in the first place.

    Thing is, I'm not even a pacifist.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I know your a leftie, but surely you are still capable of reading history books
    You could do a better job than we did though. I'd point out we crushed the Mau-Maus, the Tamil Liberation Tigers have been crushed in Sri Lanka to name some examples.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    The terrorists that wouldn't have been such a nuisance had we not gone into Iraq in the first place.

    Thing is, I'm not even a pacifist.
    They were in power and gassing people before we went.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    You could do a better job than we did though. I'd point out we crushed the Mau-Maus, the Tamil Liberation Tigers have been crushed in Sri Lanka to name some examples.
    Taking how many decades and costing how many lives and with how little of a home field adantage to the terrorists.

    I would also like to point out that it seems far more popular to just let the terrorists get into government these days, the IRA are in government, Mandella and his fellow terrorists made it into government, the Taliban will inevitably end up back in government in one form or another.
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    Aye , it causes great distress for the families involved by this report being delayed
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Taking how many decades and costing how many lives and with how little of a home field adantage to the terrorists.

    I would also like to point out that it seems far more popular to just let the terrorists get into government these days, the IRA are in government, Mandella and his fellow terrorists made it into government, the Taliban will inevitably end up back in government in one form or another.
    Well the Mau Maus took about 6 years to defeat iirc.

    The Taliban are unlikely to end up in government seen as they completely oppose it. Sinn Fein aren't the IRA and putting the ANC down as mere terrorists is reprehensible.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    Well the Mau Maus took about 6 years to defeat iirc.

    The Taliban are unlikely to end up in government seen as they completely oppose it. Sinn Fein aren't the IRA and putting the ANC down as mere terrorists is reprehensible.
    If we're defining the May Maus as terrorists then that adds hundreds, probably thousands of terrorist groups that have been around for decades without much success is crushing them given they were a gang (around for at least 8 years). And are you denying that many members of Sinn Fein, including very prominent members, were not part of the IRA, again, prominent members? Are you not denying that the same was/is true of the ANC? Are you thus suggesting that because in fairly democratic, somewhat corrupt, countries it has happened, it thus cannot possibly happen in highly corrupt countries?

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    50 votes. First time ever?
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    50 votes. First time ever?
    Who's borrowing Bun's seat?
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    Ayes to the right: 16
    Noes to the left: 27
    Abstain: 7

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