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    (Original post by Ace123)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34720745

    AS EU Commission say limiting immigrant benefits will be ruled illegal do you think David Cameron will get significant EU reforms on key areas e.g. controlling immigration, fishing, lower EU budget, farming (CAP) or a UK veto?
    I would bet my own penis that he won't get anything serious


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    No, but for once it isn't his fault. Significant reform is only going to be possible with treaty change, which would be a VERY long, complicated and arduous process involving the agreement of all member states. Cameron will get nowhere, but neither would any British Prime Minister.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    No, but for once it isn't his fault. Significant reform is only going to be possible with treaty change, which would be a VERY long, complicated and arduous process involving the agreement of all member states. Cameron will get nowhere, but neither would any British Prime Minister.
    Which is exactly why Britain doesn't get what it wants/needs whatever word you want to use

    And the reason that people should vote out


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Which is exactly why Britain doesn't get what it wants/needs whatever word you want to use

    And the reason that people should vote out


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    It depends, for me, which you think is better - the status quo, or the changes Cameron will make. Personally I support immigration, human rights and joint action on the environment, so I'll reluctantly be voting in - I don't like the EU, but I expect that while we have a Tory government leaving would only make things worse.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    It depends, for me, which you think is better - the status quo, or the changes Cameron will make. Personally I support immigration, human rights and joint action on the environment, so I'll reluctantly be voting in - I don't like the EU, but I expect that while we have a Tory government leaving would only make things worse.
    I'll give you the environment but leaving doesn't mean you don't support immigration it means you should be able to pick and choose who comes in.
    We would of course write a new human rights bill and there is also crazy eu environmental rules such as the current rules for fishing.


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    (Original post by paul514)
    I'll give you the environment but leaving doesn't mean you don't support immigration it means you should be able to pick and choose who comes in.
    We would of course write a new human rights bill and there is also crazy eu environmental rules such as the current rules for fishing.


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    It means in effect that we will reduce immigration. I recognise lots of people want to do that, but I don't, so it's a reason for me to vote to stay. I also have absolutely no faith in the Government to effectively protect human rights with their own legislation considering some of the policies they've supported such as state monitoring of all communications, effectively forced labour for private corporations and anti-democratic gerrymandering of constituency boundaries. The EU is far from perfect, but I'd rather be a member than give Cameron free reign.
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    (Original post by DominiqueNelson)
    I hope not... Don't want him to achieve anything #Piggate
    this is your own country your pawning out here with your silly political quibbles...you'd rather we all sunk, provided david cameron did too?
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    No, everything he asked for is kindergarten changes. His whole campaign is a joke and only people like Rakas21believe it is real core reform. You Tory lot need to stop pretending you want a reformed EU with your baby changes and just be honest about your love and loyalty to Brussels, Germany and the EU
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    It means in effect that we will reduce immigration. I recognise lots of people want to do that, but I don't, so it's a reason for me to vote to stay. I also have absolutely no faith in the Government to effectively protect human rights with their own legislation considering some of the policies they've supported such as state monitoring of all communications, effectively forced labour for private corporations and anti-democratic gerrymandering of constituency boundaries. The EU is far from perfect, but I'd rather be a member than give Cameron free reign.
    how is the glorious EU empire saving us from that law by the way...? :hi: uhhhh...? so much for them!
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    (Original post by Gears265)
    No, everything he asked for is kindergarten changes. His whole campaign is a joke and only people like Rakas21believe it is real core reform. You Tory lot need to stop pretending you want a reformed EU with your baby changes and just be honest about your love and loyalty to Brussels, Germany and the EU
    I'm not a Tory but VIVA EUROPA!
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    Cameron will achieve nothing. He has refused to say what he will ask for because he knows if he asks for anything meaningful it will get rejected. So he will come back in a few months time with some trivial concession and claim that is what he wanted all along, when what the public acually wanted all along was border controls, less money spent on it, the ability for the UK to govern itself, etc etc.
    Sorry you are deluded, Cameron could come back with nothing and devoted Tories like Rakas21 will still vote to stay in, do you know why? Because they worship the ground Cameron walks on. How many Tories said they wanted out and then changed their mind when Cameron demanded they vote for the Tory party to campaign to stay? All of them that is. These are Rakases, a whole 11 million of them. Tories lack the spine to defy Cameron, they just cry like babies instead
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    how is the glorious EU empire saving us from that law by the way...? :hi: uhhhh...? so much for them!
    Because of the way it works, it's more likely to be challenged after introduction rather than pre-emptively unfortunately. But it's more of an example of why I absolutely do not under any circumstances want to hand power over human rights law to a single party that has no respect for them. Ideally they would be part of a codified constitution that would not be subject to the whims of a particular government with a weak electoral mandate.

    (Original post by G8D)
    He has no chance but I'm glad he seems to be changing his tune.

    Before it was "We want change but we'll stay in the EU even if we don't get it". Now it appears to be "We want change and tbh I'm prepared to leave if you just ignore us".
    It's just rhetoric. Cameron is more likely to join the Labour Party and bow down to Jeremy Corbyn that campaign to leave.
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    and to answer the question - david cameron is unlikely to achieve jack**** but that doesn't mean I'm not still hoping optimistically
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    (Original post by G8D)
    He has no chance but I'm glad he seems to be changing his tune.

    Before it was "We want change but we'll stay in the EU even if we don't get it". Now it appears to be "We want change and tbh I'm prepared to leave if you just ignore us".
    Typical Tory like you would fall for that one, he will always want to stay in, Cameron and co made the bed with Brussels years ago. The true Eurosceptic Tory party died when Thatcher was forced out
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    I'm not a Tory but VIVA EUROPA!
    Corbyn would spit in your face if you said that but Blair and Cameron would give you a big hug, nice to know where your true alligience is
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    (Original post by Gears265)
    Typical Tory like you would fall for that one, he will always want to stay in, Cameron and co made the bed with Brussels years ago. The true Eurosceptic Tory party died when Thatcher was forced out
    That's a no true Scotsman if I ever saw one.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Because of the way it works, it's more likely to be challenged after introduction rather than pre-emptively unfortunately. But it's more of an example of why I absolutely do not under any circumstances want to hand power over human rights law to a single party that has no respect for them. Ideally they would be part of a codified constitution that would not be subject to the whims of a particular government with a weak electoral mandate.
    if you don't trust your own country's politicians, why are you more trusting of politicians from other countries...? what is the difference between them? also, how does this surveillance law (which I wholeheartedly oppose, too) contradict the european convention on human rights? also, leaving the EU has nothing to do with our membership of the council of europe and the european court of human rights (not to be confused with the european council, and the european court of justice)
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    (Original post by Gears265)
    Corbyn would spit in your face if you said that but Blair and Cameron would give you a big hug, nice to know where your true alligience is
    I don't agree with Corbyn about everything mate, I think he's far too liberal on markets, drugs etc but he's still closer to what I believe than anyone else electable (don't turn this into an 'is Corbyn electable' debate please, I'm even including the Greens within the definition of 'electable' here, I'm just excluding TUSC etc).
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    That's a no true Scotsman if I ever saw one.
    Thatcher campaigned for an economic common market but in her latter years was critical of Brussels, the federalisation and the regulation. Her and her allies were either forced out or on to the backbenches to make way for major and his cronies
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    if you don't trust your own country's politicians, why are you more trusting of politicians from other countries...? what is the difference between them? also, how does this surveillance law (which I wholeheartedly oppose, too) contradict the european convention on human rights? also, leaving the EU has nothing to do with our membership of the council of europe and the european court of human rights (not to be confused with the european council, and the european court of justice)
    Because changing EU law is much harder to do, and likely to be vetoed by more favourable politicians from a minority of these countries. For me it contradicts the right to privacy quite severely, but I'm not a lawyer so we'll have to wait and see what actually happens with it of course.

    Indeed, but it does make it easier to do so and the Tories have effectively promised to take us out of the ECHR or at least to completely ignore it and impose their own rules instead.
 
 
 
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