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Should we make criminals pay for Prison time? watch

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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Nope - they will learn from their ways and get back on the straight and narrow before the sentences get LONGER and the debts get BIGGER for the majority. Exceptional circumstances we will write off for bad debts and implement a LONG prison sentence and further evaluation for character if the individual is fit to re-enter society.

    We will have the funds to do this btw. Will have a LOT more funds!
    No, they get stressed because they have a huge debt to pay. You are forgetting the mental state of many prisoners. That will create more stress and will further increase the suicide rate among prisoners. Many of whom are ex service personnel.

    How about you provide rehabilitation in prison. That way they stop offending and have skills for the world outside. Locking someone up for a long period of time and not providing support just makes things worse.

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    What if they're in their for life? Why would they pay?
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    We should make them pay it by submitting to the command of the government and working for no wage or the bare minimum doing all the work they are required to do by their masters
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    (Original post by Katty3)
    No, they get stressed because they have a huge debt to pay. You are forgetting the mental state of many prisoners. That will create more stress and will further increase the suicide rate among prisoners. Many of whom are ex service personnel.

    How about you provide rehabilitation in prison. That way they stop offending and have skills for the world outside. Locking someone up for a long period of time and not providing support just makes things worse.

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    You say it will increase the suicide rate? That is a cheaper death sentence minus all the proceedings, therefore I support it
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    1. Most people let alone ex cons cannot pay a debt of 40k per year of incarceration from their income
    2. It would incentivise incarceration and longer sentences like in America
    3. It would disincentivise useful punishments like community service as well as rehabilitation and parole while inside
    4. The debt will not help criminals to get back on their feet
    5. Philosophically the punishment ends on release, giving the prisoner a clean slate - see Christian morality
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    (Original post by Gears265)
    You say it will increase the suicide rate? That is a cheaper death sentence minus all the proceedings, therefore I support it
    3edgy5me

    These are criminals, they will mug a thousand pensioners to pay the debt before they ever kill themselves

    But I know how important "virtue"-signalling is to your type of right winger
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    (Original post by Gears265)
    You say it will increase the suicide rate? That is a cheaper death sentence minus all the proceedings, therefore I support it
    That is disgusting. Those are people. Most of whom have had pretty $***** lives up to this point. Many are care leavers, ex service personnel or both. Many have mental illnesses. They need help not potentially fatal policies that are blatantly cruel. Not everything is about money. The most vulnerable in society need more support, not charging to be punished.

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    (Original post by Katty3)
    That is disgusting. Those are people. Most of whom have had pretty $***** lives up to this point. Many are care leavers, ex service personnel or both. Many have mental illnesses. They need help not potentially fatal policies that are blatantly cruel. Not everything is about money. The most vulnerable in society need more support, not charging to be punished.

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    Sorry but I don't like criminals, especially murderers, pedophiles and rapists, they can burn for all I care
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    (Original post by Katty3)
    1) You do realise that many prisoners have mental illnesses. They can't necessarily work. Prison should be about rehabilitation. This is what prevents people from offending again.

    2) No but many, even the majority are. The welfare system is no where near adequate. Yet the millionaire tax dodgers aren't greedy.

    3) We need to cut back on corporate welfare and make the likes of Starbucks, Amazon and Google pay their fair share. Cut from the poorest and they will just sink lower. You create a cycle of poverty.

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    While I agree with you that prisoners should not be made to pay their way through prison, your part on tackling corporate welfare is naive. The examples of tax avoidance which you stated is part of a global industry and it would need a concerted international effort to stop such practices.

    Furthermore, the corporate tax of the UK is one of the lowest in the developed world, and MNCs in fact flock to the UK to avoid taxes - just last year the big US-based pharmaceuticals Pfizer and AbbVie tried to buy over two UK pharmaceutical companies (separately), so as to incorporate their companies in the UK to save on their tax bill. Standing at 20%, the UK's corporation tax is almost half of that of the US's, and to my knowledge it does not charge tax on corporations' worldwide income. Changing the rules on tax avoidance for corporations might in fact result in less revenue for HMRC as the UK may become a less attractive jurisdiction to do business and avoid taxes.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    So you're telling me mortgages don't make people work harder?!!?
    Firstly people who get mortgages aren't criminals so aren't going to turn to crime which also secondly a criminal isn't going to work harder he's just going to do more crime, a mortgage is something that you intend to get and so are going to try to pay off and the mortgage since it is intended to be used and paid off by someone with a decent income compared to someone who doesn't have a job and is a criminal.
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    Long term prisoners should be able to buy their own cells and rent them out to other prisoners once they a released so they get an income and be less likely to reoffend.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    1. Refuse to work? you will have debt when you leave
    2. Taking assets they currently own? that's called punishment. It's a deterrent. Not all criminals are dirt poor you know, we have a welfare system in place which is more than adequate. It's greed.
    3. Yes when we have like 80-90% gov debt. We need to make cut backs.
    Are you not punishing ordinary law abiding citizens by giving prisons jobs when the general population are struggling to do so themselves.
    The aim of prison is to deter as well as rehabilitate, taking assets just throws that out of the window. If their crime resulted in them gaining wealth, we have the Proceeds of Crime Act.
    Austerity will cause crime to increase. That will just incentivise big corporations to attempt to increase crime, most people would be locked up before long.
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    (Original post by College_Dropout)
    Are you not punishing ordinary law abiding citizens by giving prisons jobs when the general population are struggling to do so themselves.
    The aim of prison is to deter as well as rehabilitate, taking assets just throws that out of the window. If their crime resulted in them gaining wealth, we have the Proceeds of Crime Act.
    Austerity will cause crime to increase. That will just incentivise big corporations to attempt to increase crime, most people would be locked up before long.
    Can we stick to numbers brah!?
    1. No - these will be jobs we already outsource such as flag making for our glorious leader
    2. That's inadequate. We need to show crime does not pay and it COSTS! to take the risk
    3. Austerity?! crime is on the decline overall, How would corporations do such a thing?! they will face the law too.

    Have you been to prison!?
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    3edgy5me

    These are criminals, they will mug a thousand pensioners to pay the debt before they ever kill themselves

    But I know how important "virtue"-signalling is to your type of right winger
    Really. Look at the facts. Ex armed forces personnel are vastly over represented in prison. There are more people with mental health problems in prison per thousand than in the general population. Care leavers are also vastly over represented.

    Our lives are not determined solely by our own choices. A care leaver is not responsible for the abuse and neglect they suffered in early childhood. But that past may continue to haunt them for the rest of their life. A soldier with PTSD who turns to crime because they struggle to cope with civilian life. Someone with mental health problems who commits crime because of their illness. Should they be charged for going to prison? Or should they be helped to show them that there is an alternative way of being? Which one is the more effective, do you think?

    P.s. I'm not right wing in the slightest.

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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Should we make criminals pay for Prison time?

    Say £50 per night and a £100 booking fee.

    This will definitely deter petty criminals - pick pockets, anti social behaviour etc.

    It will make crime not pay! Overall it should lower crime quite considerably. Those who are drug addicts will have to accept mandatory rehabilitation programmes or face paying the costs.

    Bill.
    You have proof it would be a deterrent? It's a ridiculous idea because most prisoners aren't well off so what happens to the majority who can't afford it?


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    I watched John Oliver on Last Week Tonight talking about something not dissimilar, how some Probation programmes in the US require the officer to be paid when there's a meeting. One of the people interviewed had been released following dealing drugs - and if he missed the meeting he'd be found and brought into custody, and if he couldn't pay he'd be taken into custody, so he started dealing again to be able to afford the costs.
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    I watched John Oliver on Last Week Tonight talking about something not dissimilar, how some Probation programmes in the US require the officer to be paid when there's a meeting. One of the people interviewed had been released following dealing drugs - and if he missed the meeting he'd be found and brought into custody, and if he couldn't pay he'd be taken into custody, so he started dealing again to be able to afford the costs.
    Also known as making probation, which presumably attempts to make sure that people stay on the straight and narrow, utterly pointless.

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    (Original post by Katty3)
    Also known as making probation, which presumably attempts to make sure that people stay on the straight and narrow, utterly pointless.

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    Literally he was forced to deal drugs to attend the probation that was supposed to stop him dealing drugs. Of course, we don't know if he would have gone back to dealing drugs anyway, but it's clear that he was struggling to find the money for the most ridiculous way of dealing with probation and that made him have to deal drugs again.

    You force people into more crime, charge them more that they can't pay without yet more crime and you don't even break even because of the extra sentences and presumably having to write at least some of the debt off because you're just going to end up bankrupting the person - which I can't imagine is good for reoffending rates...
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    Literally he was forced to deal drugs to attend the probation that was supposed to stop him dealing drugs. Of course, we don't know if he would have gone back to dealing drugs anyway, but it's clear that he was struggling to find the money for the most ridiculous way of dealing with probation and that made him have to deal drugs again.

    You force people into more crime, charge them more that they can't pay without yet more crime and you don't even break even because of the extra sentences and presumably having to write at least some of the debt off because you're just going to end up bankrupting the person - which I can't imagine is good for reoffending rates...
    I have a wonderful idea! Let's make probation free at the point of use. This way people aren't forced back into crime because they can't afford to pay for it. All much simpler, and they end up paying back into the system because of taxes.

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    This is literally the worst idea ever.
 
 
 
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