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Being expected to take responsibility for your own safety isn't victim blaming watch

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    Is TSR seriously rid of the radical feminists?!

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    People should be expected to take reasonable precautions. Asking someone to never get drunk, never wear skimpy clothes, or never leave the house at night is NOT a reasonable precaution.
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    Oh yeah... While we're at it let's tell murders to stop killing and thefts to stop stealing. Oh that right. They do not care! Less women chugging alcohol means less rape. I know. I'm such a victim blamer. Me and my belief people should take precautions to avoid being rape. Believe or not but even men have to take precautions to not get raped, killed or robbed!
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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    People should be expected to take reasonable precautions. Asking someone to never get drunk, never wear skimpy clothes, or never leave the house at night is NOT a reasonable precaution.
    Nobody's saying anything about never doing any of those activities. We're saying that it's good advice to take certain measures when doing these activities, excluding wearing skimpy clothing, in order to put yourself at less risk. Certain measures may be avoiding going to unsafe places when it's dark unless it's absolutely necessary, not drinking to excess unless you have someone in a good state of mind willing to look out for you and make sure you're safe.
    Wearing skimpy clothing is different. I've said before I didn't think it was fair to tell people to change what they wear in order to 'make them less of a target' because that would be unfair and unreasonable.
    I have a problem with how rape is deemed different to other crimes, and because of that, people refuse to take reasonable precaution to help reduce their risk of being hurt on the basis that 'it's the rapist's fault'. Of course it's the rapist's fault, but when someone is burgled or becomes a victim of vandalism, people acknowledge that it's the perpetrator's fault but are still perfectly happy to lock their doors and put their cars in garages if possible without becoming defensive. I've seen people argue that if only society teaches men that rape is wrong (I realise not all rapists are men, but this is the context in which this argument is usually used) then rape would just stop.
    When you want crime to stop happening or reduce, action needs to be taken from both sides of the situation. If people would rather act from the principle that because it's someone else's fault they shouldn't do anything to protect themselves, then fine.
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    (Original post by pineneedles)
    Nobody's saying anything about never doing any of those activities. We're saying that it's good advice to take certain measures when doing these activities, excluding wearing skimpy clothing, in order to put yourself at less risk. Certain measures may be avoiding going to unsafe places when it's dark unless it's absolutely necessary, not drinking to excess unless you have someone in a good state of mind willing to look out for you and make sure you're safe.
    Wearing skimpy clothing is different. I've said before I didn't think it was fair to tell people to change what they wear in order to 'make them less of a target' because that would be unfair and unreasonable.
    I have a problem with how rape is deemed different to other crimes, and because of that, people refuse to take reasonable precaution to help reduce their risk of being hurt on the basis that 'it's the rapist's fault'. Of course it's the rapist's fault, but when someone is burgled or becomes a victim of vandalism, people acknowledge that it's the perpetrator's fault but are still perfectly happy to lock their doors and put their cars in garages if possible without becoming defensive. I've seen people argue that if only society teaches men that rape is wrong (I realise not all rapists are men, but this is the context in which this argument is usually used) then rape would just stop.
    When you want crime to stop happening or reduce, action needs to be taken from both sides of the situation. If people would rather act from the principle that because it's someone else's fault they shouldn't do anything to protect themselves, then fine.
    Everyone agrees reasonable precautions should be taken, we just disagree on what is and is not "reasonable".

    Its also important to understand how the majority of rapes happen. The majority of rapes do not happen to girls in skimpy clothes who have walked home by themselves and caught the attention of a stranger. The majority of rapes are perpetrated by someone the victim knows.
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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    Everyone agrees reasonable precautions should be taken, we just disagree on what is and is not "reasonable".

    Its also important to understand how the majority of rapes happen. The majority of rapes do not happen to girls in skimpy clothes who have walked home by themselves and caught the attention of a stranger. The majority of rapes are perpetrated by someone the victim knows.
    When we're looking at factors someone can actually control, I think they're reasonable. You can't do anything about knowing the wrong people, but you can make damn sure you're not in a risky situation which they might take advantage of.
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    (Original post by pineneedles)
    When we're looking at factors someone can actually control, I think they're reasonable. You can't do anything about knowing the wrong people, but you can make damn sure you're not in a risky situation which they might take advantage of.
    Like what, being alone and unable to bench press 200lb?
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    Sadly it's become 'offensive' to have common sense nowadays.

    Obviously it's not your fault, but if you decide to get drunk and walk down a dark, shady alley in a dodgy part of town then you can't expect not to be attacked/raped. You can't pretend it won't happen to you; to assume otherwise is naive.

    It's different if you had no other choice, if you were already being chased by someone for example. But if there is a slightly longer way home which is less likely to be dangerous then you're better taking it. If saying that is part of 'rape culture' then I fear for the future of the human race.
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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    Like what, being alone and unable to bench press 200lb?
    So the point you're trying to make is, because people can't control whether or not they're alone or able to overpower their attacker they shouldn't bother avoiding getting into those situations at all? How ridiculous is that? Obviously I realise avoiding these situations isn't always possible, but this fact isn't enough to stop people bothering to do so anyway.
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    (Original post by pineneedles)
    So the point you're trying to make is, because people can't control whether or not they're alone or able to overpower their attacker they shouldn't bother avoiding getting into those situations at all? How ridiculous is that? Obviously I realise avoiding these situations isn't always possible, but this fact isn't enough to stop people bothering to do so anyway.
    In 90% of rapes, there was literally nothing the woman could have done to stop it.

    The number of sexual assaults has risen recently, yet women are more safety-conscious than ever. What does that tell you?
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    (Original post by Evening)
    Sadly it's become 'offensive' to have common sense nowadays.

    Obviously it's not your fault, but if you decide to get drunk and walk down a dark, shady alley in a dodgy part of town then you can't expect not to be attacked/raped. You can't pretend it won't happen to you; to assume otherwise is naive.

    It's different if you had no other choice, if you were already being chased by someone for example. But if there is a slightly longer way home which is less likely to be dangerous then you're better taking it. If saying that is part of 'rape culture' then I fear for the future of the human race.
    Shady alleys and dodgy areas are only shady and dodgy because people are told not to walk around there by ignorant morons.
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    (Original post by zigglr)
    It is the same as driving a car not wearing a seatbelt, and then dying in a car crash. You are aware that the risk is there, but not taking the necessary precautions that people have repeatedly told you, so how is it not partly your fault if you die in the crash
    A woman is not a ****ing seatbelt, or a house with a window left open, they are a ****ing human being?
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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    Shady alleys and dodgy areas are only shady and dodgy because people are told not to walk around there by ignorant morons.
    Oh sorry, I wasn't aware we had He-Man in our midst. Please tell us how you are so solid? How many people have you smashed?
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    (Original post by Evening)
    Oh sorry, I wasn't aware we had He-Man in our midst. Please tell us how you are so solid? How many people have you smashed?
    All of them, obviously.

    You don't have to be he-man to walk around a perfectly decent area of a city. Just don't be a judgemental coward.
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    It should be common sense. There's a growing attitude that we somehow shouldn't take precautions concerning our own selves and potential dangers that may result from negligent or unintelligent behaviour. While the fault obviously lies with the wrongdoer, it is naive (and dangerous) to suggest it inappropriate to warn people of their behavior and the risks it may incur. I'm not going to walk through a bad neighbourhood late at night flashing all my valuables - I know the risks. And, if I was a young woman, I wouldn't get black out drunk, make passes at strangers, and follow them into dark places. While not wrong in itself, this sort of behavior is ultimately tempting fate, and a smart person would know to be more aware.
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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    In 90% of rapes, there was literally nothing the woman could have done to stop it.

    The number of sexual assaults has risen recently, yet women are more safety-conscious than ever. What does that tell you?
    I still disagree. Doing something to protect yourself is better than doing nothing at all.
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    (Original post by pineneedles)
    I still disagree. Doing something to protect yourself is better than doing nothing at all.
    So do you have bars on all your windows at home?
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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    All of them, obviously.

    You don't have to be he-man to walk around a perfectly decent area of a city. Just don't be a judgemental coward.
    Every city has regions where it is best to avoid. I don't think the people there who are willing to hurt and attack you are going to give a **** as to whether you judge them or not.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    It should be common sense. There's a growing attitude that we somehow shouldn't take precautions concerning our own selves and potential dangers that may result from negligent or unintelligent behaviour. While the fault obviously lies with the wrongdoer, it is naive (and dangerous) to suggest it inappropriate to warn people of their behavior and the risks it may incur. I'm not going to walk through a bad neighbourhood late at night flashing all my valuables - I know the risks. And, if I was a young woman, I wouldn't get black out drunk, make passes at strangers, and follow them into dark places. While not wrong in itself, this sort of behavior is ultimately tempting fate, and a smart person would know to be more aware.
    because that's how the majority of rapes happen, is it?
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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    So do you have bars on all your windows at home?
    I'll rephrase that, not doing something blatantly risky is better than going ahead and doing it anyway. We're going around in circles.
 
 
 
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