Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

B886 - Local Government Re-Organisation Bill 2015 watch

    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I might be mistaken, but did we (tories ) not try this last term, or was it merely pondered internally (Rakas21, i think it was you suggesting something similar )
    We had a bill to make elected mayors the norm in the 15th parliament and talked about various reform but nothing came of it.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Nay.

    Firstly council elections occur every four years in the main.

    Secondly while I do think that larger county councils are superior, there's a large population disparity in counties. We should really abolish ceremonial counties for those under a million and start merging.

    Thirdly, I believe in agglomeration. The places with these mayors and extra powers should be the core 8 cities.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    I think it is a mix of incompetence and bad research when the largest party in government is writing a bill that includes council tax; a tax the same party abolished in the Alternative Tax Bill. I would have expected the bills produced by the same party, contributed to by the same people, and voted on by the same MPs to be consistent without these very basic errors. There is no information in this new bill about possible changes to the way the new local authorities will be funded which will make funding local bodies difficult for the government if a bill is not written on local authority financing.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    I think it is a mix of incompetence and bad research when the largest party in government is writing a bill that includes council tax; a tax the same party abolished in the Alternative Tax Bill. I would have expected the bills produced by the same party, contributed to by the same people, and voted on by the same MPs to be consistent without these very basic errors. There is no information in this new bill about possible changes to the way the new local authorities will be funded which will make the issue very difficult for the government if no future bill is written on funding. I think this bill is needless top-down reorganisation that will achieve little; the powers given to council are vague, the funding of councils is non-existent, and the need to create council boundaries based on counties is not explicit.
    Thank you for brining up the ATA, just looked at it, and the LVT was increased 100 fold for division, to everybody who voted for it, well done for not double checking the bill first... And well done to the author for more increasing taxation to over 400% of GDP, causing a crash in land price and completely messing up the market, bankrupting everybody, causing a mass exodus and whatever other hall happens.
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    we had referenda on directly elected mayors in some cities and people voted against this. I do not think that we should force a mayor onto a place which doesn't want one just our of ideology.

    fire, Social care and trading standards SHOULD BE CENTRAL a local system is way too open to corruption and this is a red line for me.

    what is the point of changing councils? I live in the catchment of a county council and a city council and I think that merging them into one would be awful and lead to less democracy.

    If a county is non-metropolitan the only difference is a different name for the leader? that is a waste of a bill.

    again what is the point of section 5???

    5 years for local elections it too long, I would prefer 4 with half the council being elected every 2 years excluding by-elections.

    overall I echo the coments from my right honorable friend and rebel
    (Original post by United1892)
    No, Nay, Never
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Thank you for brining up the ATA, just looked at it, and the LVT was increased 100 fold for division, to everybody who voted for it, well done for not double checking the bill first... And well done to the author for more than doubling government revenues, causing a crash in land price and completely messing up the market.
    Not at all true, the LVT only really punishes landlords who do not use their property, it deters offshore property investors and makes sure that people who own property actually use it, thus reducing rent prices as there's further supply and meaning that people have more disposable income due to the removal of council tax.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    Not at all true, the LVT only really punishes landlords who do not use their property, it deters offshore property investors and makes sure that people who own property actually use it, thus reducing rent prices as there's further supply and meaning that people have more disposable income due to the removal of council tax.
    Tell me about how somebody living in central London can afford a bill of £5m per year per I think it was hectare? From debate to division the rate increased from 0.05% to 5%, considering the costing, that makes it cost EIGHT TRILLION per year, it costs more than four times GDP, it will punish everybody who pays it. Using the sources from the bill, even those least affected would, in essence, see their council tax rise from about £1k p/a to £100k p/a, although as I recall that source doesn't even use 0.05%, although running my own figures that makes the average house in Britain about one hectare, which is clearly not true.

    Given that these costs are likely to be passed on to the renter, do you seriously think that those living in the poorer parts of London will be able to afford the price hike when members of your own party claim they cannot even afford it now?

    I suppose on the plus side it would pay down the debt in a matter of months.

    And my mistake, having run the numbers it's actually closer to 5x GDP (469% according to your figures and 2013 GDP)
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Thank you for brining up the ATA, just looked at it, and the LVT was increased 100 fold for division, to everybody who voted for it, well done for not double checking the bill first... And well done to the author for more increasing taxation to over 400% of GDP, causing a crash in land price and completely messing up the market, bankrupting everybody, causing a mass exodus and whatever other hall happens.
    It was increased at second reading and the first reading was a typo.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by United1892)
    It was increased at second reading and the first reading was a typo.
    Okay then, we just have simple negligence then.
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jamestg)
    - Councils shouldn't have any influence on education, schools should be free to set their own curricular and the only requirements are those set by OFSTED, and targets set by the government
    'Schools should be free to set their own curricular [sic]'

    Are you nuts? Have you not seen what an abject failure free schools have been?
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    'Schools should be free to set their own curricular [sic]'

    Are you nuts? Have you not seen what an abject failure free schools have been?
    Free schools haven't been a failure...

    You're basing your opinions off of a handful of free schools reported in the, left wing, press
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jamestg)
    Free schools haven't been a failure...

    You're basing your opinions off of a handful of free schools reported in the, left wing, press
    This is more than anecdotal evidence; would be interesting to see whether this fits a normal-ish significance level but I'd guess it would: http://www.theguardian.com/education...e-higher-state

    It's also simply logical to see that they cannot succeed. There are certain things which children must be taught to a competent standard up to a certain age if they are to have a chance at success in life (defining success generally in terms of being able to become proficient and maintain a decent standard of life doing something which suits them) - think basic mathematical ability (though I would say that the national curriculum teaches maths far too slow at the moment; most of the core A Level course should be assimilated into the GCSE). Free schools open up the possibility of children not being taught these things.

    I mean, it seems that the Tories just stuck Michael Gove into positions he had no experience in, had no knowledge of, and just gave him a sledgehammer to implement whatever terrible idea popped into his head. His record in Justice was even worse than in Education. Even most of the intelligent Tories I know accept that Gove is pretty much just a joke.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    This is more than anecdotal evidence; would be interesting to see whether this fits a normal-ish significance level but I'd guess it would: http://www.theguardian.com/education...e-higher-state

    It's also simply logical to see that they cannot succeed. There are certain things which children must be taught to a competent standard up to a certain age if they are to have a chance at success in life (defining success generally in terms of being able to become proficient and maintain a decent standard of life doing something which suits them) - think basic mathematical ability (though I would say that the national curriculum teaches maths far too slow at the moment; most of the core A Level course should be assimilated into the GCSE). Free schools open up the possibility of children not being taught these things.

    I mean, it seems that the Tories just stuck Michael Gove into positions he had no experience in, had no knowledge of, and just gave him a sledgehammer to implement whatever terrible idea popped into his head. His record in Justice was even worse than in Education. Even most of the intelligent Tories I know accept that Gove is pretty much just a joke.
    That article is complete bullsh*t. Look at the 2013/14 report by OFSTED, here it is in summary...

    - 13% of LA schools are 'outstanding', compared to 24% of free schools
    - 29% of LA schools 'require improvement', compared to 26% of free schools
    - 8% of LA schools are 'inadequate', compared to 9% of free schools (hardly a "much higher rate")

    Nowhere in their reports does it mention a concern overall in free schools not teaching everything they need to change. So your 'logic' is only theoretical, and in practice only happens in one or two schools. I agree with your point about teaching bits of core AS maths at GCSE however, scrap add-maths and other 'bridge' qualifications' and introduce a bigger GCSE.

    Gove was a poor SoS for education, however his new appointment as justice secretary so far has been very good. If you look at his current views - he is a well principled man, preferring rehabilitation for example.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by jamestg)
    That article is complete bullsh*t. Look at the 2013/14 report by OFSTED, here it is in summary...

    - 13% of LA schools are 'outstanding', compared to 24% of free schools
    - 29% of LA schools 'require improvement', compared to 26% of free schools
    - 8% of LA schools are 'inadequate', compared to 9% of free schools (hardly a "much higher rate"

    Nowhere in their reports does it mention a concern overall in free schools not teaching everything they need to change. So your 'logic' is only theoretical, and in practice only happens in one or two schools. I agree with your point about teaching bits of core AS maths at GCSE however, scrap add-maths and other 'bridge' qualifications' and introduce a bigger GCSE.

    Gove was a poor SoS for education, however his new appointment as justice secretary so far has been very good. If you look at his current views - he is a well principled man, preferring rehabilitation for example.
    You have to remember thought that it's the guardian, so a 1% difference at the bottom turns into a massive ideological "ermahgerd, they're failing massively, the government are ideoooot"
    Even if it were 90% outstanding, 10% inadiquate for FSs and nothing in the middle, vs 0% outstanding, 0%good, 91% requires improvement, 9% inadequate for LAs they would still try to peddle that Free Schools are failing.

    EDIT: I suppose actually they would be, 9% of them to be precise, so I suppose I should be saying "peddle that, compared to those under the control of Local Authorities, they are failing."
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    This is more than anecdotal evidence; would be interesting to see whether this fits a normal-ish significance level but I'd guess it would: http://www.theguardian.com/education...e-higher-state

    It's also simply logical to see that they cannot succeed. There are certain things which children must be taught to a competent standard up to a certain age if they are to have a chance at success in life (defining success generally in terms of being able to become proficient and maintain a decent standard of life doing something which suits them) - think basic mathematical ability (though I would say that the national curriculum teaches maths far too slow at the moment; most of the core A Level course should be assimilated into the GCSE). Free schools open up the possibility of children not being taught these things.

    I mean, it seems that the Tories just stuck Michael Gove into positions he had no experience in, had no knowledge of, and just gave him a sledgehammer to implement whatever terrible idea popped into his head. His record in Justice was even worse than in Education. Even most of the intelligent Tories I know accept that Gove is pretty much just a joke.
    Your "logical" argument is atrocious, it is no more a risk than having home schooling, are you saying we should abolish that too? And the maths syllabus isn't slow, it is crap, as is the case is most of the system, if a free school stopped teaching the basics I somehow have a feeling people would stop going to it, I also imagine that there will be some legislation that puts some restrictions in place, such as English, Maths, Science are taught.

    And then we get the whole "what happened to 'attack the argument, not the man'" thing? To say you use Corbyn for your avatar you don't seem to practice what he preaches (and doesn't too brilliantly well).
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Your "logical" argument is atrocious, it is no more a risk than having home schooling, are you saying we should abolish that too? And the maths syllabus isn't slow, it is crap, as is the case is most of the system, if a free school stopped teaching the basics I somehow have a feeling people would stop going to it, I also imagine that there will be some legislation that puts some restrictions in place, such as English, Maths, Science are taught.
    Yes, home schooling is a terrible idea and should be abolished.

    The maths system is mostly just slow. There is some stuff which is unnecessary (why would anyone ever want to learn circle theorems), but the GCSE syllabus is pretty much absolute basics which everyone should know.

    You seem to think that parents assess schools sensibly. While this may mostly be true, it's pretty clear that there are nutcases who wouldn't (for instance, creationists who wish evolution to not be taught in schools). In larger areas, I think it pretty likely that idiosyncratic schools could gain a following.

    And then we get the whole "what happened to 'attack the argument, not the man'" thing? To say you use Corbyn for your avatar you don't seem to practice what he preaches (and doesn't too brilliantly well).
    You're right, that was a lapse on my part. Michael Gove just generally makes me angry.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Yes, home schooling is a terrible idea and should be abolished.
    Home schooling is a great idea! What is actually wrong with it? It's up to the parents and the child how they are educated, not some politician.

    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    You're right, that was a lapse on my part. Michael Gove just generally makes me angry.
    I don't blame you
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jamestg)
    Home schooling is a great idea! What is actually wrong with it? It's up to the parents and the child how they are educated, not some politician.
    Why should it be? It's the state's role to intervene whenever it can make a positive effect on society as a whole.
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    This is in cessation.
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    Division! Clear the lobbies.
 
 
 
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: November 24, 2015
Poll
Do you agree with the proposed ban on plastic straws and cotton buds?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.