Doing honours in Mathematics at King's College of London Watch

Princepieman
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(Original post by Copperknickers)
That is not true, at least for English/Welsh universities. In England and Wales, the degree which you are normally awarded after a traditional 3 year degree is called a BA/BSc with Honours. It is however possible to graduate with an 'ordinary degree' at the end of the 3 years (i.e., without honours) which usually means you did the same classes as everyone else, but failed to achieve a high enough grade, or failed to complete a necessary module (for example in my degree, if you opted not to do a dissertation in your final year, or if you failed it).

But in real terms, you have to perform catastrophically in your exams to fail to achieve Honours, because you are automatically awarded Honours so long as you pass all of your modules and get at least a 2nd Class degree because many if not most Bachelor's degrees here include a compulsory research project for everyone. So Honours is not an elite programme, it's a formality. The end result is the same though: it qualifies you for postgraduate study (although to go to a good university for your Postgrad, you will need not just Honours but high grades as well).

So in other words, the differences between the English and Australian system are:

1. An English undergraduate degree takes 3 years, an Australian undergraduate degree takes 4 years.

2. The Honours programme in English universities is obligatory and not selective, so in real terms 90%+ of all undergrad degrees are Honours degrees. What qualifies you to move onto Postgraduate study is not whether you have Honours, it's whether you have both Honours AND a high enough grade (usually a 1st or high 2:1).

In Scotland things are slightly different, the undergraduate degree is 4 years long and the entire 4th year is considered an Honours year for everyone (technically it is selective because you can choose to leave after the 3rd year, but again, the requirements are so loose that most people will do 4 years and achieve Honours, unless they peform very badly in many of their assessments or decide that they don't need to complete the 4th year for some reason).

In Scotland your undergraduate degree is called a (Scottish) M.A., which is equivalent to an English Bachelor of Arts degree: an English Master of Arts is equivalent to a Scottish Master of Science (for some reason, undergraduate STEM degrees in Scotland are called B.Sc.'s, and postgrad STEM degrees are called M.Sc's, whereas arts/humanities undergrad degrees are called M.A.s, but postgrad arts/humanities degrees are called M.Sc.'s).
I was talking about Australian honours programmes.. I do know the education system in the UK quite well as I live here, thank you.

In Aus, you either have a three year degree or a four year degree with an integrated honours programme (akin to the integrated Masters programmes we have here) to prepare you to go directly into research.

Honours in the UK has nothing to do with Honours in Australia, they are two completely separate concepts. Think of an 'honours' programme as a separate or integrated additional year of research training/preparation.
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Copperknickers
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(Original post by Princepieman)
I was talking about Australian honours programmes.. I do know the education system in the UK quite well as I live here, thank you.

In Aus, you either have a three year degree or a four year degree with an integrated honours programme (akin to the integrated Masters programmes we have here) to prepare you to go directly into research.

Honours in the UK has nothing to do with Honours in Australia, they are two completely separate concepts. Think of an 'honours' programme as a separate or integrated additional year of research training/preparation.
They are not separate concepts, since the Australian education system has its roots in the British one. Honours in the UK technically is an integrated research programme which prepares you for postgraduate degrees, it's just not selective and does not involve as much work but is just done along with your other modules, so it is a formality that for most people will just form part of their regular degree work.
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High Stakes
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BEEF!
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Princepieman
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(Original post by Copperknickers)
They are not separate concepts, since the Australian education system has its roots in the British one. Honours in the UK technically is an integrated research programme which prepares you for postgraduate degrees, it's just not selective and does not involve as much work but is just done along with your other modules, so it is a formality that for most people will just form part of their regular degree work.
Yes, one is a formality as part of doing a degree and the other is a completely separate programme..

I don't think you understand, a high distinction in a three year degree is very much the same thing as a first class honours degree; neither of which have anything to do with the Australian honours programme. You're confusing the semantics of a post-undergraduate programme with the grading system of a UK undergraduate programme.

They are indeed separate concepts.

P.S. The US' university system is also 'grounded' in British roots. Last time I checked they called their 'honours' grades different names.
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Princepieman
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(Original post by High Stakes)
BEEF!
LOL
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Copperknickers
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(Original post by Princepieman)
Yes, one is a formality as part of doing a degree and the other is a completely separate programme..

I don't think you understand, a high distinction in a three year degree is very much the same thing as a first class honours degree; neither of which have anything to do with the Australian honours programme.
No, that cannot be true, because a First Class Honours degree in the UK entitles you for direct entry into a Masters, but a High Distinction in an Australian degree still requires an extra year of study (i.e. the Honours programme) before you can progress to doing a Masters.

In other words, the Australian system is basically the same as the Scottish system: you can stop after 3 years and have a degree, but if you want to progress to a Masters you have to do an extra Honours year first. The difference is that in Australia the extra year is considered as a discrete qualification rather than just a continuation of your original degree, but it makes no real difference in practice.

As for applying that system between Australia and England, I'd be very surprised if they would accept anyone with a 3 year Australian degree directly into a British Masters even though technically you'd be at the same standard as an English 3 year degree holder (who would be able to progress to a Masters: maybe if you got very very good grades from a very good university). It may well be possible to go straight into 3rd Year of a KCL BSc and come out with an English BSc that would entitle you to go straight into a British Masters. But that would probably be subject to negotiations with the postgrad admissions board because it would be non-standard (unless they have a lot of Australian applicants at KCL, I can't say I met any Australians there myself).
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Princepieman
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(Original post by Copperknickers)
No, that cannot be true, because a First Class Honours degree in the UK entitles you for direct entry into a Masters, but a High Distinction in an Australian degree still requires an extra year of study (i.e. the Honours programme) before you can progress to doing a Masters.

In other words, the Australian system is basically the same as the Scottish system: you can stop after 3 years and have a degree, but if you want to progress to a Masters you have to do an extra Honours year first. The difference is that in Australia the extra year is considered as a discrete qualification rather than just a continuation of your original degree, but it makes no real difference in practice.

As for applying that system between Australia and England, I'd be very surprised if they would accept anyone with a 3 year Australian degree directly into a British Masters even though technically you'd be at the same standard as an English 3 year degree holder (who would be able to progress to a Masters: maybe if you got very very good grades from a very good university). It may well be possible to go straight into 3rd Year of a KCL BSc and come out with an English BSc that would entitle you to go straight into a British Masters. But that would probably be subject to negotiations with the postgrad admissions board because it would be non-standard (unless they have a lot of Australian applicants at KCL, I can't say I met any Australians there myself).
I'll just leave this from UCL here:
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Copperknickers
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(Original post by Princepieman)
I'll just leave this from UCL here:
That seems to be exactly what I said. You have to do a 4 year Australian degree in order to be accepted into a British university for a Masters, unless you get exceptionally high marks in your 3rd year.
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springconstant
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(Original post by Copperknickers)
That seems to be exactly what I said. You have to do a 4 year Australian degree in order to be accepted into a British university for a Masters, unless you get exceptionally high marks in your 3rd year.
Hi

What exactly are my options with a 3 year Australian degree?
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Copperknickers
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(Original post by springconstant)
Hi

What exactly are my options with a 3 year Australian degree?
"For entry to a taught postgraduate degree (i.e. Masters):

Applicants welcomed from recognised Australian universities with strong grades in the three year Bachelors (usually a minimum of Distinction/ Second Class Upper/ 75% depending on final grading scheme of your university).

Applicants with the four year Bachelor (Hons) degree typically require a minimum of Second Class/ 70% (depending on final grading scheme of your university)."
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springconstant
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(Original post by Copperknickers)
"For entry to a taught postgraduate degree (i.e. Masters):

Applicants welcomed from recognised Australian universities with strong grades in the three year Bachelors (usually a minimum of Distinction/ Second Class Upper/ 75% depending on final grading scheme of your university).

Applicants with the four year Bachelor (Hons) degree typically require a minimum of Second Class/ 70% (depending on final grading scheme of your university)."
Is KCL known to accept applicants whose results differs from the requirement by a small margin?
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Copperknickers
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(Original post by springconstant)
Is KCL known to accept applicants whose results differs from the requirement by a small margin?
It's always worth a try, it definitely happens when subscription for a course is lower than expected.
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springconstant
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(Original post by Copperknickers)
It's always worth a try, it definitely happens when subscription for a course is lower than expected.
Thanks for the contribution!

Will be trying to push the GPA up to at least a 5.5. But juggling 2 of the toughest major is a real challenge.
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springconstant
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(Original post by Copperknickers)
It's always worth a try, it definitely happens when subscription for a course is lower than expected.
Very interesting.

It is stated that (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postgraduate_diploma)
a postgraduate diploma is by definition "a postgraduate
qualification awarded typically after a bachelor's degree."
If I make a pun, I suspect a postgraduate diploma is very much an equivalent to some level between a Bachelors degree and an Msc-quite possibly an equivalent to honours level in Australian speak.

From
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/phys/admissions/msc/physics
and
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/maths/prospect.../msc-modelling

Respectively, the entry requirement were grades 2:2(second lower) and grades at least above 60% (evidently, just second lower).
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