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    (Original post by balanced)
    So you're immigration point is irrelevant for us staying, great thanks.
    Not really, but if you'd like to disregard it there are 4 other points there.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    A lot of people are on the fence, and you'll probably see a lot of fearmongering and outright lies from people that want to leave. Stuff like "our NHS is failing", "the UK is overpopulated", "we give the EU money and never getting anything back", and so on. The "Leave" crowd seem to be very loud, so it's easy to believe them, but please ask questions and look for statistics before you believe what they say.

    People are turning the EU into a scapegoat as if it's the source of all these problems, and pretending that leaving it would solve them. I'd love to jump on the bandwagon, but the reality is that it won't. I'd like to make the case for why we should stay in the EU, with some facts and statistics, to help you make up your mind.

    1. Immigration: The EU allows for free migration between all EU countries. The people wanting to leave will tell you that lots of people come over from poorer countries to do unskilled labour, so they take our jobs, or that lots just come to take our benefits.

    Claims of immigrants coming from the EU to take our benefits are outright lies. This study by UCL found that EU migrants contributed 34% more in taxes than they took in benefits. It also found, "In contrast, over the same period, the total of UK natives’ tax payments were 11% lower than the transfers they received." This essentially means that the average migrant is contributing more to the economy than the average British citizen.

    There's also a myth that most immigrants are unskilled workers - people try to say that, while EU migrants work, they're taking unskilled jobs from natives instead of filling jobs we need. But the same UCL study found that 32% of EU migrants had a university education, compared to 21% for UK natives - so the truth is that they actually are filling skilled jobs that we need filled.

    As for unemployment, the number of UK natives in work has increased over the last few years.

    2. Giving money to the EU: The UK (and all EU countries) pay an EU membership fee. But a lot of people don't seem to realize that we get a large amount of that money back. In 2013, Nigel Farage claimed that Britain pays £20 billion per year for EU membership. We actually paid £18 billion, and we received over half of it back.

    The majority of the rest went to the EU budget. The EU uses this to pay for a lot of stuff that benefits the entire EU. For example, £4 billion went to funding scientific research in the UK, and £53 billion to agriculture subsidies. A lot of this benefits us directly, but it also helps the rest of the EU grow, which in turn helps us by increasing trade.

    The EU has been particularly important in tackling Climate Change, and a large portion of the budget goes toward funding low-carbon technologies and climate change research. The budget has also provided funding for climate change adaptation for EU member states - paying for flood defenses, for example.

    A ton of science and technology projects in the UK and abroad are also able to happen due to EU funding. Over 2200 UK research projects have benefited from EU funding and grants. This is more than any other EU member state, by a large margin.

    3. We trade a lot with the EU: The EU has policies in place to increase trade between member states. These policies, like the Common Customs Tariff, will often make it more favourable to trade with other EU states than with external states. So, essentially, other EU countries will be more likely to trade with us than with China or the US, which benefits us economically.

    In 2014,44% of UK exports were to the EU. If we were to leave the EU, this would almost definitely decrease, as we become less favourable to trade with. This would impact the economy. 15% of our GDP (the total money coming into the country, a measure of economic strength) comes from EU exports. That's £300 billion.

    The strength of our economy determines how much money the government can spend on things like schools and the NHS, and it also plays a part in determining how much money people make on average. A strong economy benefits all of us, and if our economy suffers, we all do.

    4. The EU allows us to move freely too: It's not just people coming to the UK from elsewhere. We can move around the EU too. We can travel without requiring a visa, and we can easily apply for and attend universities across Europe (it's almost always cheaper than in the UK!)

    5. A lot of our rights come from the EU: And I'm not just referring to our Human Rights. The EU provides us with some of the best consumer rights in the world. Because of EU laws, you're entitled to a 14-day return period on everything you buy, retailers have to provide you with a certain amount of clear information on products they sell, and electronic products you buy all have to meet certain safety standards. This makes things safer for you as a consumer, and easier for businesses as they only need to meet one set of regulations.

    I hope this helps you toward making a decision. Please be sceptical toward anything you hear, and don't believe things without some evidence to back it up, because a lot of misinformation is being spread.

    And if you're on the fence, please inform yourself and vote. The outcome of the referendum will have a huge effect on the country.
    1. It is irrelevant if the average migrant pays more into the system than the average British person does.

    The only thing that matters is if migrants pay for themselves on average as people outside of our country aren't our problem whereas our own residents are.

    The study you cite is full of flaws it doesn't include the cost of capital expenditure for new schools, hospitals etc only the cost of a school place for example.
    So correct me if I'm wrong you need to build more buildings, fill them with equipment and teachers if you bring hundreds of thousands of people extra into the country per year.
    It doesn't include the cost of housing benefit.
    It doesn't include the cost of the rising demand for housing which comes about solely as an issue of immigration as the uk doesn't have a growing population without migrants.

    As for skilled workers most exit supporters don't have an issue with these people and post brexit we can choose who to let in, this is those skilled workers!!
    Leaving the unskilled workers to not be allowed in reducing the downward pressure on wages for the low paid bringing more of the 2 million unemployed people back into employment and more hours given to the 3 million under employed people.

    2. We do get half of our membership payments back in the form of grants for this or that, so what? If we didn't pay a fee we would have another 10 billion a year to spend on things whilst continuing to support most of the things the eu grants already do. What a stupid point you just made.

    By the way eu migrants bring 2 billion to the economy. Brexit will bring that benefit higher as we won't have the low skilled workers sucking money out.

    And lest we forget even taking into account getting half our money back and that two million were still 8 billion short.

    There is also the cost to business complying with Eu business regulations even if they don't trade with someone in the eu!! This is much much higher than the entire membership fee but can't be quantified properly by any official body as it is so complex.

    3. What a load of *******s, there is numerous countries that have a tariff free trading relationship with the eu such as Mexico why would the fifth largest economy in the world be any different?

    You also forgot conveniently 3 other facts.

    We spend 80 billion more on eu goods than they buy from us! They won't do anything to damage this as it only harms them.

    The U.K. Is the largest export market for the EU

    The eu is the only market in the world which is shrinking and our trade with the eu as in what we export to them has been shrinking for years.

    4. Remind me, do I need a visa to go to the USA on holiday? How about Norway? South Africa?

    The answers no! So why will I need a visa to go to Spain for my summer holiday? It's absolutely laughable.

    You will also still be able to go to uni on the continent if you are one of the tiny amount of people who actually do that. Funding can still work the same too, it's a little known fact you can actually receive some student finance to study in the USA for example.

    5. Who wrote the majority of those rights in the first place? The British! Why will these rights disappear after a brexit? Got any reason to believe they will? Any evidence?

    No I thought not.

    In conclusion you haven't come up with one single point in the entirety of your inane ramblings which can't be debunked easily.


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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    Just to comment on the issue of Mexico having free trade, no one is saying that the UK wouldn't be able to get a trade deal; of course the EU isn't going to suddenly stop trading with us. However, the deal will likely involve higher trade tariffs which will be economically damaging and we will have to subscribe to a large number of EU regulations anyway (like Norway and Switzerland currently have to - we will be no exception), so we might as well have a say in them.

    One thing is for certain: the EU won't give us a better trade deal IF we leave, and will likely give us a worse one than we currently have, so there is no point in leaving on economic grounds.
    So let's say the eu puts tariffs on uk goods.

    We would do the same, the difference is we spend 80 billion more on their goods than they do on ours.

    Tariffs would make us more money!


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    (Original post by paul514)
    So let's say the eu puts tariffs on uk goods.

    We would do the same, the difference is we spend 80 billion more on their goods than they do on ours.

    Tariffs would make us more money!


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    Both of us putting up tariffs helps no one, it's just economically damaging for us both. The more tariffs we put in place, the less they trade.

    I can't remember the exact figure off the top of my head, but I believe that somewhere around 45% of our exports go to the EU which is massive, anything which is put into place to reduce this will undoubtedly have a negative economic impact.

    If you check my original post, I mentioned 'The Undercover Economist' by Tim Harford. If you're interested you should read it, he can probably explain trade barriers a lot better than I can.
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    Both of us putting up tariffs helps no one, it's just economically damaging for us both. The more tariffs we put in place, the less they trade.

    I can't remember the exact figure off the top of my head, but I believe that somewhere around 45% of our exports go to the EU which is massive, anything which is put into place to reduce this will undoubtedly have a negative economic impact.

    If you check my original post, I mentioned 'The Undercover Economist' by Tim Harford. If you're interested you should read it, he can probably explain trade barriers a lot better than I can.
    My point was it is a tax raiser if levied at the same rate.

    There will be no tariffs for the reason already given


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    (Original post by paul514)
    1. It is irrelevant if the average migrant pays more into the system than the average British person does.

    The only thing that matters is if migrants pay for themselves on average as people outside of our country aren't our problem whereas our own residents are.

    The study you cite is full of flaws it doesn't include the cost of capital expenditure for new schools, hospitals etc only the cost of a school place for example.
    So correct me if I'm wrong you need to build more buildings, fill them with equipment and teachers if you bring hundreds of thousands of people extra into the country per year.
    It doesn't include the cost of housing benefit.
    It doesn't include the cost of the rising demand for housing which comes about solely as an issue of immigration as the uk doesn't have a growing population without migrants.
    The migrants do pay for themselves, as I said:

    "This study by UCL found that EU migrants contributed 34% more in taxes than they took in benefits."

    It doesn't include the cost of housing benefit? What???????? Where did you even get that from? You've pulled it entirely from thin air. If you'll see Table A1 in the full paper you'll notice that it specifically does include the cost of housing benefit. I really don't understand where that came from.

    As for the rising demand for housing - we don't have a growing population without migrants? Unless something's changed very drastically from 2014, that's an outright lie. Housing demand is increasing with or without immigrants.

    As for skilled workers most exit supporters don't have an issue with these people and post brexit we can choose who to let in, this is those skilled workers!!
    I'd imagine a lot less workers would want to come here if we left the EU. Unless you're seriously suggesting that being in the EU doesn't increase immigration.

    Leaving the unskilled workers to not be allowed in reducing the downward pressure on wages for the low paid bringing more of the 2 million unemployed people back into employment and more hours given to the 3 million under employed people.
    But what unskilled workers? 32% of EU migrants are university-educated, and a lot are students. Employment, as I've already said, is rising, largely due to the economic growth due to EU immigration.

    2. We do get half of our membership payments back in the form of grants for this or that, so what? If we didn't pay a fee we would have another 10 billion a year to spend on things whilst continuing to support most of the things the eu grants already do. What a stupid point you just made.
    I think you've just made a stupid point. What are you even trying to say? Stop putting money into things and we'll have more money to spend?

    As for "supporting most of the things EU grants already do" - what? Probably one of the most important things EU grants go to is funding research projects across the EU. Do you honestly believe there's no benefit in that, and that it'd be better spent in the UK? You're probably so deep in your delusions of nationalistic grandeur that you'll tell me "British science is better than everyone elses science!!"

    By the way eu migrants bring 2 billion to the economy. Brexit will bring that benefit higher as we won't have the low skilled workers sucking money out.
    I'd be interested to see a source for that £2 billion figure. As for low skilled workers, we'd also have less skilled workers.

    Do you realize that right now, 57% of non-EU immigrants are unskilled? Do you think we only accept university-educated workers when we have control? Because we clearly don't, we accept a lot of non-EU unskilled workers, and I really don't understand why you think it'd be any different if we were to leave the EU. Maybe you should focus your efforts here instead?

    There is also the cost to business complying with Eu business regulations even if they don't trade with someone in the eu!! This is much much higher than the entire membership fee but can't be quantified properly by any official body as it is so complex.
    I strongly believe the cost is as high as you're saying, considering the amount of businesses that want to stay in. Convenient that the cost "can't be quantified". What regulations are you referring to?

    3. What a load of *******s, there is numerous countries that have a tariff free trading relationship with the eu such as Mexico
    Very few countries (only Mexico and South Korea) have a true FTA, and Norway is part of the EEA, meaning that it has to permit free movement.

    why would the fifth largest economy in the world be any different?
    Um....... maybe for the same reason the first and second largest economies in the world are different? Do you realize that China and the US don't have their own special little agreements?

    You don't seem to understand how the EEA works. If everyone gets to participate in the free market without following the restrictions in place, there's no point in having the free market.

    You also forgot conveniently 3 other facts.

    We spend 80 billion more on eu goods than they buy from us! They won't do anything to damage this as it only harms them.
    No, it'll severely harm us too. They probably don't think we're stupid enough to leave the EU for that reason.

    The U.K. Is the largest export market for the EU
    Yes, so leaving the EU will be economically damaging to us.

    The eu is the only market in the world which is shrinking
    Except it's not.

    and our trade with the eu as in what we export to them has been shrinking for years.
    But they still make up 45% of our exports.

    4. Remind me, do I need a visa to go to the USA on holiday? How about Norway? South Africa?

    The answers no! So why will I need a visa to go to Spain for my summer holiday? It's absolutely laughable.
    You don't need a visa to go on holiday to Norway because it's part of the EEA that you want to leave...


    5. Who wrote the majority of those rights in the first place? The British! Why will these rights disappear after a brexit? Got any reason to believe they will? Any evidence?
    I don't have evidence because I'm not a time-traveller. But considering the ****ing massive tantrum the leave voters are throwing over the EU imposing laws on us, that seems a fairly good reason to assume some of them would be repealed.

    In conclusion you haven't come up with one single point in the entirety of your inane ramblings which can't be debunked easily.
    In conclusion, you've debunked **** all.
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    A recent Daily Mail poll puts the Stay voters in the lead.

    It's still close though. If you support staying in the EU, please spread the word and correct people when you see them spreading lies and misinformation!
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    A recent Daily Mail poll puts the Stay voters in the lead.

    It's still close though. If you support staying in the EU, please spread the word and correct people when you see them spreading lies and misinformation!
    This is good news, although I think this vote will likely be won by the undecided voters. I think those who want to stay/leave for definite are pretty set in their ways and unlikely to change their opinions, which is why it's even more important that the correct information is circulated to allow people to make an informed decision.
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    It seems like whenever I try to talk to/debate this with friends all they seem to fall back on is immigration. I feel like closer to the referendum we'll get hounded with all these immigration figures and stories..
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    (Original post by kdizzle97)
    It seems like whenever I try to talk to/debate this with friends all they seem to fall back on is immigration. I feel like closer to the referendum we'll get hounded with all these immigration figures and stories..
    That's because it's a good way for the leave campaign to play on people's fears, although of course they neglect to mention that immigration has a net financial benefit so such fears are unfounded.

    You should try discussing some other issues with them which they may feel more positively about.
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    I'm Italian, not from one of the richest countries, but that's not the point... I think that Europe is not a real "family", where everybody gives what he can. This family has never existed, since the first day of the union. Paradoxically, we have been separating since then. When you count the money in the other's pocket, as we say, because you are afraid to take a loss, you'd better leave. We have a similar situation inside Italy between the north and the south. The northern people don't want to pay the taxes because they say that they are the economic power of the country since they have the most important industries and a richer economy. According to these principles I could refuse to pay the taxes for public transportations since I have my own car and never take public trains or buses, or health taxes because I' m never sick.
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    Basically if you're an authoritarian lefty you should vote to stay in.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    your reasons are weak.
    do you think hardly anybody in this country cares about being able to move to poland or romania? before 2005~ sure there was france, spain and germany etc but now it's eastern europe.
    do you think hardly anybody in this country think that immigration *isn't* the top electoral issue?
    and by the way: benefits claimants being migrants isn't the issue. the issue is numbers. and there's no way that we get more money from the EU than we give in. NOBODY credible claims that.
    and who honestly claims that we won't be able to have a free trade deal with the EU if bloody *mexico* gets it?
    I care about free movement to Europe. That's the reason that thousands of UK students are able to study in Europe. If we vote for out, then our futures will be destroyed as EU course fees turn to £30k per year overseas student fees, totally unaffordable. I personally would have to cease my degree at an EU University.

    The other side of the coin is the £billion loss of revenue when the EU students, all 50,000 of them can no longer afford to study in the UK. The UK universities will have to cut courses/ increase charges to pay for the revenue loss, not to mention the loss in intellectual ability brought in by the influx of Europe's brightest.

    Expect to see immediate problems this year when non-
    UK EU applicant numbers drop if the referendum is an out vote.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)

    1. Immigration: The EU allows for free migration between all EU countries. The people wanting to leave will tell you that lots of people come over from poorer countries to do unskilled labour, so they take our jobs, or that lots just come to take our benefits.

    Claims of immigrants coming from the EU to take our benefits are outright lies. This study by UCL found that EU migrants contributed 34% more in taxes than they took in benefits. It also found, "In contrast, over the same period, the total of UK natives’ tax payments were 11% lower than the transfers they received." This essentially means that the average migrant is contributing more to the economy than the average British citizen.

    There's also a myth that most immigrants are unskilled workers - people try to say that, while EU migrants work, they're taking unskilled jobs from natives instead of filling jobs we need. But the same UCL study found that 32% of EU migrants had a university education, compared to 21% for UK natives - so the truth is that they actually are filling skilled jobs that we need filled.

    As for unemployment, the number of UK natives in work has increased over the last few years. The number of employed natives is increasing alongside the number of migrants. The migrants aren't taking our jobs - they're spurring growth and creating jobs.

    2. Giving money to the EU: The UK (and all EU countries) pay an EU membership fee. But a lot of people don't seem to realize that we get a large amount of that money back. In 2013, Nigel Farage claimed that Britain pays £20 billion per year for EU membership. We actually paid £18 billion, and we received over half of it back.

    The majority of the rest went to the EU budget. The EU uses this to pay for a lot of stuff that benefits the entire EU. For example, £4 billion went to funding scientific research in the UK, and £53 billion to agriculture subsidies. A lot of this benefits us directly, but it also helps the rest of the EU grow, which in turn helps us by increasing trade.

    The EU has been particularly important in tackling Climate Change, and a large portion of the budget goes toward funding low-carbon technologies and climate change research. The budget has also provided funding for climate change adaptation for EU member states - paying for flood defenses, for example.

    A ton of science and technology projects in the UK and abroad are also able to happen due to EU funding. Over 2200 UK research projects have benefited from EU funding and grants. This is more than any other EU member state, by a large margin.

    3. We trade a lot with the EU: The EU has policies in place to increase trade between member states. These policies, like the Common Customs Tariff, will often make it more favourable to trade with other EU states than with external states. So, essentially, other EU countries will be more likely to trade with us than with China or the US, which benefits us economically.

    In 2014,44% of UK exports were to the EU. If we were to leave the EU, this would almost definitely decrease, as we become less favourable to trade with. This would impact the economy. 15% of our GDP (the total money coming into the country, a measure of economic strength) comes from EU exports. That's £300 billion.

    The strength of our economy determines how much money the government can spend on things like schools and the NHS, and it also plays a part in determining how much money people make on average. A strong economy benefits all of us, and if our economy suffers, we all do.

    4. The EU allows us to move freely too: It's not just people coming to the UK from elsewhere. We can move around the EU too. We can travel without requiring a visa, and we can easily apply for and attend universities across Europe (it's almost always cheaper than in the UK!)

    5. A lot of our rights come from the EU: And I'm not just referring to our Human Rights. The EU provides us with some of the best consumer rights in the world. Because of EU laws, you're entitled to a 14-day return period on everything you buy, retailers have to provide you with a certain amount of clear information on products they sell, and electronic products you buy all have to meet certain safety standards. This makes things safer for you as a consumer, and easier for businesses as they only need to meet one set of regulations.

    I hope this helps you toward making a decision. Please be sceptical toward anything you hear, and don't believe things without some evidence to back it up, because a lot of misinformation is being spread.

    And if you're on the fence, please inform yourself and vote. The outcome of the referendum will have a huge effect on the country.

    If you're planning on voting to STAY, that's not enough - please spread the word, and correct people when you see them spreading lies or misinformation.
    1) Immigration. Leaving would give us the opportunity to control our borders and ensure that only those best for Britain are admitted. We are letting in to many, we are suffering from overcrowding and many services are being stretched. Also a large number of poorer unskilled workers are entering the country and leading to wage deflation. We would still be able to fill skills shortages outside of the EU and ensure only those we want are let in. Also any British worker that's good enough will be happily let into the EU so their is no worry their. Just a but more paperwork.

    2) We pay more in that we get back, fact! We could divert the wasted spending into the UK and ensure that we don't fund projects elsewhere in the EU. British spending on British things and we could invest in even more research projects and fighting climate change as we will have more money than we get from the EU.

    3) We now trade more with those outside the EU than in it. Being part of the EU makes it much harder for us to trade to the growing parts of the world and set up ftas with them. The EU is a declining area which we have a trade deficit with and so its even more in their interest to negotiate at FTA with us if we leave. We also have 5 million jobs linked to exports outside the EU vs 3 million linked to the EU so its time to focus on outside the EU.

    4) 1.3 million Brits in the EU (most in Spain) vs 3 million EU workers here, clearly we don't care for it as much as they do.

    5) The UK justice system is one of the oldest, most respected, liberal and least corrupt in the world. Most of the rights would remain and I much prefer our court system to that of the EU. We can make laws that benefit us, get control back over regulation of the city, reduce red tape and remove the pro French fishing laws. The UK is not a dictatorship and we don't need the EU to be one of the freest nations on earth.

    6) Sovereignty. Don't you think a country of our size should be able to determine its on fate. Well I do and think we will be much better at it than EU bureaucrats, many of which are unelected.

    VOTE LEAVE!
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    (Original post by sebby491)
    1) Immigration. Leaving would give us the opportunity to control our borders and ensure that only those best for Britain are admitted. We are letting in to many, we are suffering from overcrowding and many services are being stretched. Also a large number of poorer unskilled workers are entering the country and leading to wage deflation. We would still be able to fill skills shortages outside of the EU and ensure only those we want are let in. Also any British worker that's good enough will be happily let into the EU so their is no worry their. Just a but more paperwork.

    2) We pay more in that we get back, fact! We could divert the wasted spending into the UK and ensure that we don't fund projects elsewhere in the EU. British spending on British things and we could invest in even more research projects and fighting climate change as we will have more money than we get from the EU.

    3) We now trade more with those outside the EU than in it. Being part of the EU makes it much harder for us to trade to the growing parts of the world and set up ftas with them. The EU is a declining area which we have a trade deficit with and so its even more in their interest to negotiate at FTA with us if we leave. We also have 5 million jobs linked to exports outside the EU vs 3 million linked to the EU so its time to focus on outside the EU.

    4) 1.3 million Brits in the EU (most in Spain) vs 3 million EU workers here, clearly we don't care for it as much as they do.

    5) The UK justice system is one of the oldest, most respected, liberal and least corrupt in the world. Most of the rights would remain and I much prefer our court system to that of the EU. We can make laws that benefit us, get control back over regulation of the city, reduce red tape and remove the pro French fishing laws. The UK is not a dictatorship and we don't need the EU to be one of the freest nations on earth.

    6) Sovereignty. Don't you think a country of our size should be able to determine its on fate. Well I do and think we will be much better at it than EU bureaucrats, many of which are unelected.

    VOTE LEAVE!

    1. We're already not controlling our borders very well. Most immigrants in the UK are from outside the EU, and most of them are unskilled. If immigration is that much of a properly you should be campaigning to keep out some of the hundreds of thousands of non-EU immigrants, because that wouldn't require leaving the EU. If we're already letting in more people than we need, why do you think it would be any different if we left the EU?

    That said, immigration is overall beneficial for us anyway. The number of skilled workers coming from the EU would inevitable decrease if we were to leave. It's not as simple as "letting them in" - they have to actually want to come in.


    2. I don't get this. Do you think British research is somehow better than research from other countries? Because I'd far rather money goes to the best research projects, national borders shouldn't even come into it.

    As for climate change, that's ridiculous. Money is simply better spent elsewhere to fight climate change. £1million to some countries can reduce their emissions far more than it would in the UK. We'd literally be getting less for our money. Climate change is a global problem, and to make our money less effective just so we're spending it in our country is horribly short-sighted and disgustingly arrogant.


    3. Do you understand proportions? There are 1 million Brits (that's 1 million people from 1 country) across all other countries. Compared to 3 million people from 28 countries in the UK.

    To put it into perspective, there are 780,000 British people living in Spain.

    On average, there are 107,000 migrants from each EU country living in the UK.


    4. How is it relevant that we trade more outside the EU? 45% of our exports go to the EU. That's 45% of our exports going to 14% of the countries in the world. That's a huge amount of our exports.

    I don't know where this idea that the EU is "declining" is coming from. It's not. The EU's GDP grew all last year at a rate slightly lower than the US, and unemployment in the EU fell. The EU isn't declining, that's just a lie.

    I also don't see how it's remotely relevant that there are more jobs linked to non-EU than EU countries. Staying in the EU isn't going to affect the jobs related to non-EU countries. Leaving the EU absolutely will affect the jobs related to the EU.

    As for an FTA, it's entirely in their interest not to negotiate one. If people can just leave and get an FTA on demand the EU falls apart. It's in their interest to let our economy suffer, make an example of us, and then let us back in when we inevitably beg them to.


    5. I've asked before and never received an answer, but people always refer to "red tape" as if it's the only thing stopped the UK being a world superpower. So, what red tape?

    As for fishing laws, I really don't believe you're serious. Pro-French? British fishing industries have been suffering for years, and it's not because of the EU, it's because of overfishing. Fishing quotas exist to protect fish populations. If we catch too many fish, the fish go extinct, and then nobody catches any fish. It's nothing to do with being "Pro-French". The EU holds our government accountable and prevents us from "democratically" making catastrophic decisions. I'm happy for them to do that.


    6. We do determine our fate, hence this ridiculous referendum.
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    Nah I'm still voting leave.

    Not planning to have a bunch of misogynistic migrant men come over to the country and then make London England's Cologne.

    And anyway, staying in the EU would mean, if a terrorist has EU citizenship, they can easily go anywhere in Europe and plan terror attacks. Islamic State would send jihadi fighters into the EU as their way of saying thanks to the ones who voted stay.

    We pay the EU £55 million a day or something like that right? Why don't we use that to fight poverty British people are facing instead of giving migrants priority? Charity starts at home.
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    What rot. 9/11 attackers got into the USA without EU passports, so what makes you think they even need them?

    Go on throw the baby out with the bath water!


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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Nah I'm still voting leave.

    Not planning to have a bunch of misogynistic migrant men come over to the country and then make London England's Cologne.

    And anyway, staying in the EU would mean, if a terrorist has EU citizenship, they can easily go anywhere in Europe and plan terror attacks. Islamic State would send jihadi fighters into the EU as their way of saying thanks to the ones who voted stay.
    Ludicrous fearmongering. You people have been telling us about how the jihadis are all sneaking into Europe for months, and yet they still haven't attacked us. The most recent attack (Paris) was done by people born and raised in neighbouring countries.

    The fact is, if we're going to be attacked it'll probably be by people born and raised in Britain. But people would rather keep pretending that all we need to do is close the borders and we'll be safe.

    We pay the EU £55 million a day or something like that right? Why don't we use that to fight poverty British people are facing instead of giving migrants priority? Charity starts at home.
    You don't even know how much we supposedly pay but you're saying it's going to the wrong places?
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Ludicrous fearmongering. You people have been telling us about how the jihadis are all sneaking into Europe for months, and yet they still haven't attacked us. The most recent attack (Paris) was done by people born and raised in neighbouring countries.

    The fact is, if we're going to be attacked it'll probably be by people born and raised in Britain. But people would rather keep pretending that all we need to do is close the borders and we'll be safe.



    You don't even know how much we supposedly pay but you're saying it's going to the wrong places?
    Don't speak too soon dude. Islamic State were very vocal of how they were going to send jihadis posing as migrants. And the Charlie Hebdo attacks were in January, then you had the November attacks. It was 10 months after. Come back next year and tell me if there was an attack. My sister has a mate who works in the German police. They've had countless tipoffs about migrants being IS supporters.

    And yes it was done by people born and raised in neighbouring countries, one of which who managed to escape through EU borders unchecked! How am I scaremongering? You clearly haven't read into what happened in Cologne. Most of the perpetrators got away and if they get German citizenship the first place they'll come is here in the UK.

    It was a figure similar to that. Look it up yourself.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    1. We're already not controlling our borders very well. Most immigrants in the UK are from outside the EU, and most of them are unskilled. If immigration is that much of a properly you should be campaigning to keep out some of the hundreds of thousands of non-EU immigrants, because that wouldn't require leaving the EU. If we're already letting in more people than we need, why do you think it would be any different if we left the EU?
    Wrong: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6879351.html
    2 millions from the EU, 1.2 from the rest of the world.

    Some non-EU immigrants come to the UK once they have the resident status in another European country. It would make it much harder for them to go to the UK.

    (Original post by JordanL_)
    That said, immigration is overall beneficial for us anyway. The number of skilled workers coming from the EU would inevitable decrease if we were to leave. It's not as simple as "letting them in" - they have to actually want to come in.
    How?

    The UK is an Eldorado for Southern Europeans. The Spaniards, French and Italians will continue to come there. Don't worry about that.
    Hopefully it will be much more difficult for unskilled workers and I'm happy with that.
 
 
 
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