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stay or leave the EU? watch

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    Stay. EU immigration is unequivocally good for the UK. Leaving the EEA would be unequivocally bad for our economy.

    The people wanting to leave are mostly disgruntled nationalists with power fantasies and delusions. They think we'll leave the EU and suddenly be a world superpower. They think immigrants are taking their jobs, when really they just can't get jobs because they're stupid. They think Britain would still be an Empire if we hadn't joined the EU. It's all a bit pathetic really. We have a representative democracy precisely to prevent issues like this - uninformed masses making decisions they can't understand the implications of. We shouldn't even be having a referendum.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Stay. EU immigration is unequivocally good for the UK. Leaving the EEA would be unequivocally bad for our economy.

    The people wanting to leave are mostly disgruntled nationalists with power fantasies and delusions. They think we'll leave the EU and suddenly be a world superpower. They think immigrants are taking their jobs, when really they just can't get jobs because they're stupid. They think Britain would still be an Empire if we hadn't joined the EU. It's all a bit pathetic really. We have a representative democracy precisely to prevent issues like this - uninformed masses making decisions they can't understand the implications of. We shouldn't even be having a referendum.
    Source?
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    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    Source?
    It's all sourced here.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Stay. EU immigration is unequivocally good for the UK. Leaving the EEA would be unequivocally bad for our economy.

    The people wanting to leave are mostly disgruntled nationalists with power fantasies and delusions. They think we'll leave the EU and suddenly be a world superpower. They think immigrants are taking their jobs, when really they just can't get jobs because they're stupid. They think Britain would still be an Empire if we hadn't joined the EU. It's all a bit pathetic really. We have a representative democracy precisely to prevent issues like this - uninformed masses making decisions they can't understand the implications of. We shouldn't even be having a referendum.
    No I wanted a source as to why "people wanting to leave are mostly disgruntled nationalists with power fantasies and delusions".


    (BTW I have also read that thread. I know the arguments for in, and I have read your thread, (even though a lot of it is a false dichotomies and very simplified answers which I cba dealing with because it's something I study anyway). However, I am more convinced by the reasons to leave, and have been for a number of years.)

    Why should we listen to you, somebody who hasn't even got to university yet, and not an "outer" economist?

    Also, our economy will not be harmed in the long term if we pulled out. It would be better off and will a lot faster growth, if we get the trade deals we need (likely) than if we remained. Shot term turbulence, long term benefit.

    No pain no gain, as they say.
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    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    No I wanted a source as to why "people wanting to leave are mostly disgruntled nationalists with power fantasies and delusions".


    (BTW I have also read that thread. I know the arguments for in, and I have read your thread, (even though a lot of it is a false dichotomies and very simplified answers which I cba dealing with because it's something I study anyway). However, I am more convinced by the reasons to leave, and have been for a number of years.)

    Why should we listen to you, somebody who hasn't even got to university yet, and not an "outer" economist?
    Oh, sorry. My source for that is any online comment section. I have no doubt there are some people wanting to leave who know what they're talking about, but most (at least the vocal ones) just keep repeating lies and myths and saying they're going to "make Britain great again".

    As for listening to me - I'm not asking you to. I've just laid out the facts and given my interpretation of them. A lot of the people arguing to leave seem completely ignorant of most of the facts (a huge proportion of people believe immigrants take more than they bring in, for example), so I'd like people to be informed.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Oh, sorry. My source for that is any online comment section. I have no doubt there are some people wanting to leave who know what they're talking about, but most (at least the vocal ones) just keep repeating lies and myths and saying they're going to "make Britain great again".

    As for listening to me - I'm not asking you to. I've just laid out the facts and given my interpretation of them. A lot of the people arguing to leave seem completely ignorant of most of the facts (a huge proportion of people believe immigrants take more than they bring in, for example), so I'd like people to be informed.
    Do you mean the type of comments that are hateful? We had plenty of that today, from the "in" campaign supporters in regards to Boris Johnsons decision. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-david-Cameron

    I've actually seen both hate comments and rather informed comments from both the in and out campaigners, even on the mail online website. So it's not all how you make it out to be. However, I have seen a lot of hateful and ignorant comments, a lot from the in campaign and a lot from the out campaign.

    So anecdotal evidence is rather irrelevant. We can all find "sources" that fit our worldview.
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    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    Do you mean the type of comments that are hateful? We had plenty of that today, from the "in" campaign supporters in regards to Boris Johnsons decision. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-david-Cameron

    I've actually seen both hate comments and rather informed comments from both the in and out campaigners, even on the mail online website. So it's not all how you make it out to be. However, I have seen a lot of hateful and ignorant comments, a lot from the in campaign and a lot from the out campaign.

    So anecdotal evidence is rather irrelevant. We can all find "sources" that fit our worldview.
    Fair enough, I accept that there'll be toxic parties on both sides of any debate.
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    Boris Johnson calls on the memory of Churchill to support leaving.

    Fails to remember one of the Churchill's speeches after the war mentioned the United States of Europe against the Iron Curtain.

    Why let history bother you Johnson? You only studied Classics.
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    (Original post by Xysoo)
    Lol this is a perfect example.

    Most of the people saying leave are people who have very little understanding of economics and the significant negative impact leaving would have on the UK, and are basically just racist/xenophobes who dont want to see any more foreigners in the country, so they're voting to leave.



    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Nono, I'm afraid this isn't quite correct. I've recently decided to support leaving the EU, on the basis of its mismanagement of democracy, the ability to be part of the single market without being part of the EU, and on the basis that pursuing human rights is made exponentially more difficult by being in the EU. Economic statistics are thrown about by both sides, and I'm sure if you were to spend enough time you could prove why it was "economically beneficial" to both stay and leave. Therefore the decision must be made on ethics, and on this front it is logical to leave.
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    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Yawn!)
    Do all the Eastern Europeans get shipped off if the UK leaves?
    I doubt that they would. Many have been in the country for years and currently every year there are over 300,000 Eastern Europeans arriving here. There is nothing they can do to stop the current high levels of immigration
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    (Original post by frostyy)
    This referendum is so moronic. People with degrees in areas that are very involved in how Europe works and how this will affect the UK are not sure which route Britain should take and what will be the most appropriate decision, yet the government - which I actually doubt would have the insanity to do, but hey, perhaps that is the case - is allowing an average Joe, or a 'can I speak with the manager' Sharon, to decide something that will affect millions of people, many of which are outside of the country's borders. But you know man, democracy.
    Maybe go live in China if you want your leaders to decide what's best for you.
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    (Original post by _icecream)
    I doubt that they would. Many have been in the country for years and currently every year there are over 300,000 Eastern Europeans arriving here. There is nothing they can do to stop the current high levels of immigration
    Madness.
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    (Original post by Failingstudent98)
    Stay- the only reason the average person currently has a problem with the EU is due to this belief the EU solely controls our immigration (and some people seem to think all immigration is negative which is equally irritating). People are panicking a looking for people to blame for this sudden panic of asylum seekers and increase in immigration, well I'm sorry but their are A LOT more things to factor in. Those arguing to leave need to read into what the EU actually offers us and why we have stayed in it up to this point.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I'm sorry but what factors that suggest that we ought to "stay" are you referring to? trade? the EU is a stagnating trade union - the only trade union in the world that is declining, because they impose tariffs *everywhere* and therefore discourage international trade. so much for free trading with the world...and regarding the laws of the EU, not only do they stunt competition in business, but they make roughly half of all our laws - why should a trade union impose such a condition upon us?

    and I didn't even mention immigration!
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Stay. EU immigration is unequivocally good for the UK. Leaving the EEA would be unequivocally bad for our economy.

    The people wanting to leave are mostly disgruntled nationalists with power fantasies and delusions. They think we'll leave the EU and suddenly be a world superpower. They think immigrants are taking their jobs, when really they just can't get jobs because they're stupid. They think Britain would still be an Empire if we hadn't joined the EU. It's all a bit pathetic really. We have a representative democracy precisely to prevent issues like this - uninformed masses making decisions they can't understand the implications of. We shouldn't even be having a referendum.
    This is unequivocally false.

    All unskilled immigration is bad for the UK, whether it be from Poland, Australia, India or even Ireland. National infrastructure and services are at breaking point and while migrant teachers, engineers and nurses should be very welcome here, unskilled apple-pickers who can't even string together a coherent sentence are only burdens on society.

    It's perfectly plausible that the UK could withdraw from the EU and not join the EEA and still have access to the European Market in the same way that Switzerland can now or Canada and the US will soon been able to. We don't need to limit our imaginings to the 'Swiss model' or the 'Norwegian model'. The UK is the world's 5th largest economy and has far more to offer to the EU than Canada or Switzerland does. We are important enough to have a bespoke British deal.

    As has been pointed out by numerous speakers, it is in the interest of the EU to trade with us because we buy so much of their produce, and as other European economies continue to stagnate, they'll hardly want to reduce any trade with Britain.

    As noted above, Britain is the world's 5th largest economy and leads in the aerospace, weapons, and pharmaceuticals industries among others. Why can South Korea, Australia, Canada, Israel, Switzerland, Singapore and plenty of other rich nations thrive outside of the EU if Britain, which is far more wealthier and productive, can't?

    While we both agree that the mental proletariat shouldn't vote on matters of such grave concern, you come across as rather lacking in awareness yourself when you discredit anyone with a different belief than your own as such.

    Regardless of all this, the way in which benefits funded by British taxpayers can be sent to overseas children by EU migrants constitutes an utmost betrayal and our current situation by which European courts are supreme over British courts is wholly impermissible. These two reasons are enough to make me vote to leave regardless of any other argument.

    The UK is not a mere province of the European Union to be economically drained to improve the living standards of much poorer nations on the periphery of this emerging superstate which we never voted to join.
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    I don't know which side to vote.
    I just want the problems to go away and everyone to have quality lives.
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    undecided but leaning towards the leave ...
 
 
 
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