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Bernie Sanders is a Socialist Marxist; why are people supporting him ? Watch

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    (Original post by AlmightyJesus)
    are you implying that in order for a person to call themselves a socialist, they must support government ownership even while social equality can be secured via other means? government ownership would be a more marxist route towards that goal
    Not government necessarily. I did mention left libertarianism and socioanarchism. But socialism is usually defined defined as the mean of production in the hands of the people (via the state, community ect what ever). As far as I can tell Bernie sanders hasn't said anything to support such a practise.
    http://www.dictionaryofeconomics.com...de2008_S000173
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    (Original post by garfeeled)
    Not government necessarily. I did mention left libertarianism and socioanarchism. But socialism is usually defined defined as the mean of production in the hands of the people (via the state, community ect what ever). As far as I can tell Bernie sanders hasn't said anything to support such a practise.
    http://www.dictionaryofeconomics.com...de2008_S000173
    ...so socialism isn't necessarily about social/economic equality? what if the means of production were in the hands of the people, but it was all based on profits and merit?
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    The same extrapolation can associate Trump to Hitler
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    for anyone who is going to spam me with "Trump isn't Hitler", that's the point, comparing Sanders to communism is like comparing Trump to Hitler, similar sides of the political spectrum, but entirely different nonetheless
    I don't get it? Trump is practically Hitler, in fact I would argue he is far worse
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    (Original post by AlmightyJesus)
    ...so socialism isn't necessarily about social/economic equality? what if the means of production were in the hands of the people, but it was all based on profits and merit?
    Seems like an odd reason to support such a thing but yes branches of socialism welcome/permit a system in which profit exists.
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    (Original post by garfeeled)
    Seems like an odd reason to support such a thing but yes branches of socialism welcome/permit a system in which profit exists.
    "branches of socialism"? what are the principles of "socialism" which unifies all branches though? isn't economic equality a central tenet, relatively or absolutely speaking?
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Socialism isn't an inherently evil idea. It just invites evil and gives evil people far too much power.
    Yet the same thing happens in capitalist states as well... maybe your ire should be aimed at Statism, not Socialism.

    (Original post by VV Cephei A)
    Naive people jumping on the free stuff bandwagon, they don't particularly care what political philosophy he identifies himself under, as long as they can do less work and get more from others.
    Because God forbid someone might have an opinion that isn't based solely on their own desperate greed. If that's your game, fine, just don't tar everyone else with your putrid brush.
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    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    Yet the same thing happens in capitalist states as well... maybe your ire should be aimed at Statism, not Socialism.



    Because God forbid someone might have an opinion that isn't based solely on their own desperate greed. If that's your game, fine, just don't tar everyone else with your putrid brush.
    Socialists don't care about the poor. If they did, they'd be looking to help the poor become wholly self-sufficient, self-reliant individuals, free from a life of desperate dependance on the state, assisted temporarily by voluntary charity that was not obtained by the mass use of government force. Of course they aren't interested in any of that, and the average neutered Bernie supporter certainly is no exception.
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    (Original post by RarestPepe)
    Sanders was active in the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party in the 1980's. This was a party that supported the same ideology of Soviet mass murderers, how could he possibly compete in an American general election ?
    Probably been said before but Trotsky was an enemy of Stalin, hence in opposition to Stalinism.

    (Original post by RarestPepe)
    But Sanders was LITERALLY in a Communist party..
    And Peter Mandelson was in the Young Communists League... So what?

    Nothing wrong with being in a Communist party, I think they're on the wrong path but some communists I've met have been the most intelligent and open minded people I have come across. Unfortunately in the UK they're in denial about how unpopular communism is, and they often turn to regimes like North Korea for self indulgence.

    (Original post by VV Cephei A)
    Socialists don't care about the poor. If they did, they'd be looking to help the poor become wholly self-sufficient, self-reliant individuals, free from a life of desperate dependance on the state, assisted temporarily by voluntary charity that was not obtained by the mass use of government force. Of course they aren't interested in any of that, and the average neutered Bernie supporter certainly is no exception.
    Poverty is essentially a by-product of capitalism (not that it didn't exist before capitalism), I think that's undeniable.

    Some form of socialism or social security is necessary to prevent poverty, everyone is dependent on someone else, it's as much part of human nature as competition is.

    Your argument doesn't add up.
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    and what is the problem with communism?
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    Ignoring all the other posts which have debunked this foolish thread, you do realise that the Soviets had Trotsky assassinated right?
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    (Original post by Kashmir Skirt)
    Ignoring all the other posts which have debunked this foolish thread, you do realise that the Soviets had Trotsky assassinated right?
    Stalin had him assassinated because Trotsky was too radical and he championed the inner-Communist Party camp or school of thought which advocated for permanent revolution (meaning that the Soviet Union should not lay down its arms until all of the world's proletariat is liberated from capitalism).
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    (Original post by AlmightyJesus)
    ...so socialism isn't necessarily about social/economic equality? what if the means of production were in the hands of the people, but it was all based on profits and merit?
    Each according to his ability and each according to his needs.
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    (Original post by Aristotle's' Disciple)
    Division fallacy. Or circumstantial ad hominem? Take your pick, anyway socialist marxism isn't outright communism so don't try and label it so. And what's that got to do with his political stance right now in any case?
    Fallacy Fallacy, just saying
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    (Original post by Ursin)
    and what is the problem with communism?
    Ahhh idk, maybe the 100 million people killed as a result of it? Who knows really, that and the famines caused by the lack of incentive.
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    (Original post by balanced)
    Ahhh idk, maybe the 100 million people killed as a result of it? Who knows really, that and the famines caused by the lack of incentive.
    The Spannish peasant communes managed to feed people in the 1930s. That kind of communism its a world apart form the enforced collectivisation of the soviet union. That kind of agricultural communism in Spain has a pretty good track record in feeding people. Also bear in mind the young men were largely out on the front-line fighting fascists and these people were given food from the peasant collectives, as well as feeding the industrial populations, all in the time of war.

    If someone is talking about that kind of liberatian communism you can' throw Bolshevik communism at them since it is totally different in approach. The Bolsheviks had to deal with an "unenlightened" non communist peasantry. The peasants in Spain were self organising without any Lenin or Stalin trying to force collectivisation on them.
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    (Original post by balanced)
    Ahhh idk, maybe the 100 million people killed as a result of it? Who knows really, that and the famines caused by the lack of incentive.
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    (Original post by Oliver_94)
    I don't get it? Trump is practically Hitler, in fact I would argue he is far worse
    Funny, you seem to follow in Hitler's footsteps, banning free speech and all...
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    (Original post by RarestPepe)
    But Sanders was LITERALLY in a Communist party..
    People do crazy things in their young years.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Each according to his ability and each according to his needs.
    each according to his ability = wage according to their skill, value and merit?
    each according to his need = welfare state?
    so...that's social capitalism?
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    (Original post by balanced)
    Fallacy Fallacy, just saying
    How so? Indirectly proposing Bernie holds the views of a party he used to be a member of in its entirety, and trying to discredit him now because of that irrelevant fact is certainly Circumstantial Ad Hominem? Right? :p: Maybe I've taken a wrong turn, forgive me if so. This is just a side hobby
 
 
 
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