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Atheists/agnostics, how would you raise your children? watch

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    (Original post by hussamhussam)
    How are they not? No one has been able to explain why one is allowed and the other isn't.

    Children will always be curious and keep asking why. What will you tell them? "Just becoz"?
    In pretty much every way possible from a moral and biological standpoint...

    For example homosexuality leads to a consensual relationship between two people who love each other that has no harmful effect on anyone or anything. Whereas incest has been scientifically proven to produce abnormalities and increase the probability of genetic deformations by decreasing the size of the gene pool and therefore is illegal.

    Now give me a reason why homosexuality is like incest in this fashion, and a reason why it should be forbidden.
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    (Original post by hussamhussam)
    I'm sorry but you have just perfectly shown how bankrupt atheist morality is. I can't believe how anyone would allow their daughter to become a professional whore.
    I wouldn't like it, but I can't exactly control what an adult chooses to do with their life. Do your parents still control what you do?
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    England isn't majorly religious, although our polls show we are because most people are baptised and there for a faith. I was raised Church of England, the only times I've been to a church is funerals and weddings. And the occasional school trip.


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    (Original post by hussamhussam)
    Will you teach your children that homosexuality is OK and if so would you also tell them that incest is OK? If not, what "secular" reason would you give when they as why it's not OK?

    What if your teenage girl wanted to become a prostitute, would you give her this enlightened liberal "freedom"? And if not, what reason would you give?

    What answer would you give when they ask you where we came from? Where the world came from? And why?

    And what would you tell them about death? That we die and that's it? How would you go proving that or even explaining it?
    Homosexuality is legal. Incest isn't
    Homosexuality does not produce genetic abnormalities in offspring. Incest does.
    Homosexuality is socially acceptable (at least amongst normal, civilised people). Incest isn't (perhaps one day it may be).

    In civilised countries, once your child is 18, you cannot control their actions. You cannot "give them the freedom to be a prostitute". It is up tho them. Under 16, and intercourse is illegal, so it would be against the law.
    What, exactly, is wrong with an adult having sex with someone for money?

    I would explain where we came from. Human reproduction is not a mystery. Planetary accretion is not a mystery. Post Big Bang expansion is not a mystery.
    Why does there have to be a "why"?

    Death is the end of the body. The body supports the mind. So when the body dies, the mind dies. Nothingness. Just like before you were concieved. Remember that?

    How would you prove that there is an afterlife? (Quoting the Bible is not proof!)
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    (Original post by hussamhussam)
    I'm sorry but you have just perfectly shown how bankrupt atheist morality is. I can't believe how anyone would allow their daughter to become a professional whore.
    A parent cannot control the life of their children after they are 18.

    How would you stop your daughter if she decided that she wanted to be a prostitue?
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    I would raise them as rationalists and utilitarians. I would teach them to have impartial concern for the well-being of all sentient beings, and to aim to minimise suffering as much as possible. I would also stress the importance of questioning everything, including what I teach them.
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    "scepticism" - not necessarily of religion, but everything. even atheism if it's argued for with poor logic as religion usually is.
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    (Original post by viddy9)
    I would raise them as rationalists and utilitarians. I would teach them to have impartial concern for the well-being of all sentient beings, and to aim to minimise suffering as much as possible. I would also stress the importance of questioning everything, including what I teach them.
    utilitarianism in all contexts? or just personal contexts? because obviously there's the point to make that utilitarianism can encourage unfair violence just to make people more happy when they don't necessarily deserve more happiness, right? i.e. theft against somebody who earned everything they have to give to thieves who would feel more happiness than the other person
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    (Original post by hussamhussam)
    Will you teach your children that homosexuality is OK and if so would you also tell them that incest is OK? If not, what "secular" reason would you give when they as why it's not OK? Homosexuality is merely one behaviour out of a whole raft of legitimate behaviours that appeal to some and not others. I taught my kids that. It isn't difficult to explain why sex between relatives is a bad idea in sociological and power terms, and a man in the sky is not needed to make it unacceptable.

    What if your teenage girl wanted to become a prostitute, would you give her this enlightened liberal "freedom"? And if not, what reason would you give? I had boys but I would have tried hard to prevent this, but would also have been realistic enough to understand that each adult makes her own decisions in life. Again, no deity needed.

    What answer would you give when they ask you where we came from? Where the world came from? And why? I had them educated and they are able to make their own minds up on these matters. They agree with me that we don't yet know but almost certainly were not created by a deity.

    And what would you tell them about death? That we die and that's it? How would you go proving that or even explaining it? We die; we rot; the end. I cannot prove it (and did not try) but it follows all credible evidence.
    For specifics, see above.

    You drift seems to be that religion is the only valid source of sense, science or morality, which is, frankly, nonsense.

    I am an atheist and both my sons are atheists. Not being exposed to indoctrination of any kind about superstitions, they made their own minds up on the non-existence of gods. They both lead law-abiding, useful, fulfilled lives and cannot be distinguished, in terms of morality, from the people about them, some of whom are adherents of religions, including the hateful Abrahamic ones.

    How will you stop your daughter becoming a prostitute?
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    I would probably raise any hypothetical children in the same way I was raised - I've ended up basically agnostic, although I came across the term "apatheistic" which sounds more accurate. (Not interested in accepting or denying any claims that gods exist or do not exist, lives as if there are no gods but doesn't outright reject their existence.)

    I'd maybe have them christened (It's traditional, I was christened as well, I'd like to give my children godparents, and it makes it easier for them if they do decide to be Christian, which is the most common religion after all.) I was given a kid's Bible - not told "this is true, this is what happened" but just as a book with stories in, that I knew some people believed in. I also had a book with Greek and Roman myths, with Hindu legends, with Buddhist stories. I was never pushed to believe in anything in particular. We had prayers and hymns at primary, but more as a tradition than as something people actively believed. We would go sing carols at the local CofE on Christmas Eve, because it was fun and you could get mince pies and hot chocolate.

    Basically, I'll raise them with exposure to multiple religions, but not make a big deal out of it. If they get interested in a particular religion and want to become active in that, I'll help and support them.
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    (Original post by iEthan)
    *the use of choose is not meant to be offensive
    Why would it be? :erm:
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Why would it be? :erm:
    Some people like to nitpick in this section, better safe than sorry I thought :yep:
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    I'd basically be like, you can only have one father. Are you gonna go with the one that puts meals in front of you or the one that sits in the sky and does nothing?
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    (Original post by iEthan)
    Some people like to nitpick in this section, better safe than sorry I thought :yep:
    Yeah, but I genuinely can't see in what way 'choose' could be construed to mean something offensive. Am I missing something?

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    Of course, as you probably know, my philosophy is the diametric opposite of 'better safe than sorry' with respect to matters of offence.
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    (Original post by AlmightyJesus)
    utilitarianism in all contexts? or just personal contexts? because obviously there's the point to make that utilitarianism can encourage unfair violence just to make people more happy when they don't necessarily deserve more happiness, right? i.e. theft against somebody who earned everything they have to give to thieves who would feel more happiness than the other person
    In all contexts, but I wouldn't advocate act utilitarianism in all contexts. Moral heuristics and rules are an integral part of any utilitarian's lifestyle, so I would obviously teach my children to follow the law, because the world is a better place with certain moral rules in place than without them.

    I would bring my children up as vegans, and I would hope that in the future they would donate their spare resources to the most effective charities out there that are reducing suffering, or even better work for organisations that are working out the best ways to reduce suffering.
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaOvOEpvlHg
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    (Original post by luckylouielou)
    With the majority of the world still religious, I've become interested in secular parenting. A friend sent me a pdf of a book called Parenting Beyond Belief and I've just started reading it to get ideas on what atheists or secularists teach their children seeing as religion still has a foothold on family values.

    So TSR atheists and agnostics, what are your ideas on raising children without religion? What values would you teach them? Would you actively tell them that there is no god or that religion is hogwash or would you try to let them decide for themselves? Is there room for any sort of spirituality that you can teach them? And how would you feel if your children later became religious?
    At least here in Britain, I think 'secular parenting' has to be accepted as the norm anyway (however much the opinion polls continue to deceive us that we're still a Christian country). And I really don't think it's a case of what we teach our children (not that I intend to have any), but rather what we do not teach them. The vast majority of atheist, or secular, parents will not, I think, try to enforce an agenda thereof onto their children, though this will often be the case for the religiously inclined. This all stems from the fact that to be an atheist is, actually, to be defined in terms of a lack of a believe system: it means nothing other than a rejection of religious influence.

    I'd be the exception that would actively encourage atheism among my children: I would see it as my parental duty, not least concerning my own intellectual integrity, to do so as long as there is the possibility of religious influence. Though not without educating them on all sides of the argument simultaneously before allowing them to decide for themselves. If that decision was to become religious, I would accept that (though not without some reservation on my part, I think). And I'd like to think that I would teach them as any other decent parent would, just without the religious authority: religion and morals are two very different things, and the former certainly doesn't have a monopoly on the latter.
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    Better than most religious folk will.
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    I sadly highly doubt you'll hear from hussamhussam again on this thread in response to the many arguments made against his homophobic-esque comments. I've come to find over the past few days on here that people tend to offer these offensive opinions then retreat in response to sound arguments. Maybe they're embarrassed, maybe they don't want to banned or seen as homophobes, or maybe they don't actually have any real evidence to back up their statements. Part of me wants to press them for answers to find out their reasons for such prejudices, the other part thinks it's just a waste of my time.
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    Religion wouldn't influence how I raised them. Morals and religion aren't co-dependent (hence why you can get morally questionable religious people and vice versa), so I'd teach my children morals without religion being brought into it.

    If they decided later on in life they wanted to commit to a religion, I'd be supportive of that, but it would never be something I'd force upon them.

    Also, I'd prefer it if they attended a non-religious school (although I'm aware this isn't always easy as the better schools, in my experience, tend to be religious :sigh:). If they were going to choose to commit to a religion, I would want them to be getting an education on all religions (which, in my experience, has a habit of not happening in religious schools) and I'm not too fond of them being forced to partake in religious events and the like if they don't wish to. :erm:
 
 
 
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